Prof. Ganapathy Chettiar in conversation with Prof. V. Anantha Subramanian
Good morning.
Good morning Professor Ganapathy.
It's my pleasure and privilege today to have a chat with you
so that we recollect some of the very important events, your career,
your experience at IIT
and so that we get a full wholesome picture -
of- Ok, thank you. Yeah.
I'll start with my education background. Yeah.
I was born at Trivandrum, Kerala state,
and brought up there
and it is very important to stress Trivandrum
because with my family background,
I could complete up to engineering in Trivandrum.
Because Trivandrum is a advanced city with Engineering College also. Right.
All the colleges I attended were of commutable distance by walk or by bus. Bus
Then, in 1961-
Yeah.
Our batch was the all-Kerala batch - first batch of all-Kerala.
All-Kerala yeah.
And in 1961, I passed with first rank and
First class distinction. Gold medal yeah.
and also I received gold medal from
Yeah. V. V. Giri at that time. Great.
Absolutely wonderful yeah.
Then... how I came to teaching:
the Government of India started a new scheme
Technical Teachers Training Program.
The purpose is to attract young bright engineers for teaching.
Right.
In that way we - a few centres were
selected for giving training under this scheme.
Yeah.
College of Engineering Guindy was there, IIT Kharagpur, Roorkee University.
Right.
Many of the top students applied from Trivandrum
I applied I didn't know anything about this.
I have ... aiming for IRSC - Indian Railway Service. Railway service.
Then my executive engineer I was, short while I was in electricity board.
Right.
He said this is a Class-1 officer’s scale
after you finish - even if in IRSC, you will get only
Class-1 officer therefore, you please go.
Right, that was the motivation factor, yeah.
Then I joined - I was selected - I went to Delhi and I was selected.
I joined in College of Engineering, Guindy.
It is a 3 years program - first 2 years, part time teaching.
Yeah.
And PG, postgraduate yeah,
in that way I got M.Sc. Structural Engineering from there. Yeah.
And we also got teacher - teaching experience from USA -
United States aid program, some professors Ok.
were there, they also gave some lectures:
how to teach and all these.
Then, under this scheme Yeah.
the Government of India has to provide us lecturer post
after 3 years. It is a agreement. Ok.
But Government of India was not very successful.
Right.
Therefore, what my - I saw my seniors, Government of India has given
one of the technical teacher-training in Srinagar.
Another in Jamshedpur.
Then we thought, let us find out ourselves.
I, at that time fortunately, IIT Madras applied.
Yeah.
For post.
Yeah, 1964. Yeah.
I applied for the post.
Initially I was not called for interview.
It is the same old story (laughs). I met the registar at that time. Yeah.
R. Natarajan, IAS.
Right. He is very very excellent. Yeah.
I showed him I am first rank from Kerala University
and here M.Sc. Engineering also I am second rank,
but I was not called for interview.
Then he did something there and here and Professor Varghese
I met - he asked me to meet Professor Varghese,
HoD - Head of Department of Civil Engineering.
He - I met him, he said: see actually we didn't want any structural engineering.
Right.
That is why I didn't call, then I said this and - this is
then ok, no problem you will be called for interview.
Yeah.
Then interview call came,
I attended the interview. And that is history (laughs).
Interview was held,
Professor B. Sengupto was the chairman - director - at that time.
And fortunately for me, an expert is Director of SERC
Professor G. S. Ramaswamy.
He has specialized in shells.
Right.
My M.Sc. thesis was also in shells.
That way, whatever questions he asked I answered properly.
Right.
Therefore, he was impressed and I was selected for the lecturer course. Right.
I joined in September 1964. 64.
Yeah. And other technical teacher-trainees in IIT are Professor Ninan Kurian.
Correct.
He is my classmate in Civil Engineering
Professor V. Radhakrishnan.
Right.
Mechanical. Yeah. He is from our own college, same batch. You are right.
Professor P. K. Philip
like that we joined here. Right.
So, I really appreciate and admire the
candid facts of those days you've stated.
So, I would say the same factors could prevail today as it was there
which is also a very good reason for anyone not to lose heart
because I would therefore interpret that
you set your heart on something, you achieved it.
So, that’s wonderful... As I see, you have done your
Ph.D. in 1973 in Structures, again.
Ah - Yeah Then, I have a peculiar experience in the sense
I was in Civil Engineering Department for 14 years. Right.
Then with Ocean Engineering Department, 19 years.
Right. That way, first 14 years I will tell about my experience in Yeah.
Civil Engineering.
At that time, IIT had agreement with the West German government for
Sci- Collaboration. Yeah, yeah Scientific collaboration.
And Civil Engineering was alerted a little late
whereas, the other departments will - ahead Yeah.
in the Civil Engineering Department also
there, only two branches were accepted-
Structural Engineering and - Right. -Hydraulics.
Right. Hydraulics was given preference because one professor Rouvé was there.
Right.
And Structural Engineering, we were there. At the time, only 3 -
Ah, Professor Varghese was the Head of the Department. He was a
permanent head of the department, not by rotation. Right.
He was appointed as a - Right. -Head of the department.
and then he planned in such a way that
there should not be competition between the teachers. Right.
Therefore, he identified each area for each
so that no competition between people.
In that way, Professor Radhakrishnan - R. Radhakrishnan - Civil Engineering
he was asked to ... emphasize on structural dynamics.
Right.
Professor T. P. Ganesan was asked to do experimental stress analysis.
I am the third lecturer.
I was asked to do on steel structures.
Right.
He said there - there is lot of scope for steel structures,
nobody is doing on steel structures.
Yeah, it’s very interesting because I really want to highlight the fact
that you were (...) well established or - by those - by today’s standards
a well established Department of Civil Engineering
and then you came to Ocean Engineering
which was absolutely nascent or virtually non-existent.
So, I would like you to bring out what were the challenges that
you encountered, and which I know as your colleague later,
that you successfully overcame.
The transaction had happened like this The way you planned. Yeah.
In IIT - in Civil Engineering Department -
in IIT many people applied for the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation. Correct.
I also applied. Right - which you got. And I got selected.
Yes.
1977. Yeah.
I joined. I went to Germany. Germany, yeah.
Berlin, yeah
At that time, The Government of India wanted to start 5 centres, one centre each in IIT. Right. IITs.
Right. IIT Madras was asked to do on Ocean - Ocean Engineering,
IIT Bombay was asked to do on Resources Engineering. Right.
IIT Kharagpur was asked to do Cryogenic.
And IIT Madr- ... Delhi was asked to energy and IIT Kanpur, something else. Alright.
That way we were hired to Ocean. IIT was started, no,
IIT Ocean Engineering was started.
Centre. With a 150 crores Yeah.
For 5 years. Yeah.
And they brought Professor Mitra from IIT Kharagpur. Kharagpur.
who was the head of Naval Architecture there. Yeah.
He was the first head of - Yeah he is the father figure of IIT Kharagpur also
because he was the first naval architect I think in India coming from UK
And with his [inaudible] experience, he planned properly. Yeah.
He was the first Head of Ocean Engineering. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
Then when I was in Germany itself
the advertisement came for professor post. Yeah yeah.
Already Civil Engineering I was assistant professor.
Right. With a senior and all this...
then I applied from there because
I had training in - in- Hindustan Shipyard for ship structures
and there also I have gone for some 3 months with one professor
... in [inaudible] another professor. Right, yeah.
In that way all this is - that way, I was selected
for professor post in Ocean Engineering.
Not [inaudible] no.
No, [inaudible] is not. Yeah.
He is a professor of structural - steel structures - ship structures, good fellow. Ship structures ok.
Then I joined as professor there.
Yes.
And ... stayed in Civil Engineering.
Alright. Because Ocean Engineering building was not there. Yes
Then, there was given a few rooms. Professor Mitra was there,
myself, Professor Raju. Right.
He is the senior to me.
Yes.
We are appointed on the same day because I joined later.
I was junior to him. In that way we
started Ocean Engineering centre. The department, yeah.
Initially Professor Mitra planned everything properly
and we were very lucky to get German aid for Ocean Engineering centre also.
Right.
That is why we are in a, such a very good stage.
Yes, I just want to touch upon some aspects of that
because I came in the early '80s and we were colleagues.
Of course, you were already the professor there
and the amazing thing was this was a department
which was beautifully planned with facilities even before starting the
academic programmes or even the research programmes.
So, the creation of the wave basin was a challenge
or was something we could not have dreamt of
and today, historically I would say we have evolved.
Now, I would like you to touch upon the challenges that we faced
in having created the facilities - they were not so fulfilled in those days -
and how we resolved it, how that path of growth
from those days, late '70s to now,
how will you put it on the track?
... leaving alone the details, Yeah.
In Germany, it was given to Ocean Engineering researchers. Right.
After Professor Mitra retired, Professor
Raju was the head of the Ocean Engineering Department for 3 years. Right.
At that time, Professor Indiresan was the director. Director.
This German programme aid came towards '83, '84
that is, towards end of Professor Raju’s time. Time, yeah.
Then Professor Raju ... requested Professor Indiresan,
the Director, that he will continue
as the coordinator - for the German programme. Right. Right.
And Professor Raju and Professor Indiresan were - at very good terms. Right - Yes.
But I objected to that.
I fought tooth and nail with Director Indiresan. Yeah.
And told him that this is not a usual project
it was a project given by the German government to the institute. Yeah.
And it should be yeah done through the department Head only. Right.
It is not an individual project. Right.
Because no individual has submitted this project. Right.
That way, he didn't want to take any decision. Right.
Who? Professor Indiresan. He is- Indiresan, yeah.
That way he hesitated because my
argument was very strong, he could not say no. Right.
And you were talking for the welfare of the balanced
growth of the department. And he hesitated
and wrote action can be taken by Professor Sreekanth.
Right. Next Director. Right.
After Professor Sreekanth - Srinath. Srinath, yes.
Professor Srinath has come. I met him. Yeah.
I told him all these things. Yes.
Then I came and that way the head of department only has to
look after that, he told. Right.
At that time fortunately one German -
[Inaudible] was also there. Right, yeah.
In that way he was ... good terms with all the faculty and all this.
Yeah.
In that way, things went off.
Yeah.
And he planned for this multi-element wavemaker
there was objections for multi-element wavemaker. Right.
from some people. Yeah.
[Inaudible] we overcome that
and I also went with him to Danish Institute.
Yes, Danish Hydraulic Institute, yeah.
Who were the fabricators and installations - Alright. - for all these things
Everything was done properly. Exactly.
So, to put it back in a nutshell
what I would say is that that very positive intervention
has made the department what it is today after more than
35, 38 years
and another peculiar aspect those days was:
we had the facilities, we did not have the experience.
And let us say, we did not have the confidence
of how to utilise these facilities for research, for academics,
I think it's very important to highlight how we overcame that.
For giving - Yeah.
At the time one Professor Krupa - Yes. - Technical University, Berlin.
Yes, I was with him also there, yeah. And Professor Kraus
were also experts for us and Professor Chandy. Yeah.
Was called to... give us training there for some time, On the DAAD fellowship there.
so that you can use the facilities. Yeah.
And all these things. In that way, who else will... like that I have also gone-
few people were given. Yeah. Sundar was there. Yes.
Training and in that way it was not -
and from Danish Hydraulic Institute also some people came there. Yes.
Yes. Another thing is I had a Indo-German project with one Professor Kuriacose.
Ok right. And the multi-leg articulated tower. Towers.
One person also came here. In that way the transition was not bad. Right right.
Now I think that was a very critical decision that gave us a lot of self-confidence
because if I remember right. we used to search for a global expert
to help us in experimental hydrodynamics
we finally learnt that we are the experts ourselves. We grew the hard way.
You know there also I had a little bit fight. Yeah.
This Professor Krupa, German. Yeah.
I was in Germany, I know the system. Yeah.
There is what is called über Ingenieur. Yes.
In that way, all the work will be decided by him. Ok.
In the work shop, in the laboratory who should do what, all these things.
Right. That way they wanted to have a same system
over engineer, one over engineer should be here
and they met Professor Srinath and all this is -
I told him this over engineer will not work here. Right.
Here it is a democratic country.
Yes, He cannot act - our head of the department also cannot overrule -
Oh ok. - over engineer. That way I very, very much fought with him.
Yeah. That over engineer need not be there. Yes
The what is it called - wave time manager they called. Right right.
There need not be any wave time manager, everybody will continue like this Yeah.
and all will be having freedom to work, whatever it is. Yes yes.
The facilities and the expertise can be shared between people
and all this I have to struggle harder to argue with Professor Srinath.
Right.
Finally, he agreed. Yes.
you know I want to recall the genesis of Naval Architecture
in our department because
you know, I mean you should share with us
how we... So, I was in Civil Engineering at that time. Naval Architecture was there
even in Naval Architecture, in Civil Engineering Department
Naval Architecture was not given any proper- Yeah.
figure and it was consider as a second grade department.
I think we started as a conversion course for the
Cochin Shipyard - Engineers, Cochin Shipyard and all.
giving them a degree in Naval Architecture. Yes. Degree people with.
Our some people came here and there. Right.
Right that was the beginning. That way it was going on, yes.
Then when the Ocean Engineering Centre came, Yeah.
Still they did not want to be here yeah initially. Right.
They had academically, administratively, very difficult problems
that way Professor Indiresan appointed
Yeah Professor Right.
Very senior naval architect to look after the -
Yeah Ocean Engineering, no, Naval Architecture section. Yes.
And he was - He was from Garden Reach Calcutta right.
He was sitting next to our - Yes yes.
He was there for some time, but still the problems were not solved. Yeah.
And these people fought with him and all such things. Yeah.
I think we had just 3 colleagues in those days
to teach the entire Naval Architecture programme.
And Ship Structures I used to take. Yeah.
And these people ... sometimes will take and will not take
in that way I got help from Swaminathan of Mathematics Department. Mathematics, yeah.
For wave - Seakeeping and. yes yes.
That way smoothly I took. Yeah Then, Ghosh Roy left. Yeah.
Then Professor Indiresan said I will be looking after administratively
for the Naval Architecture and ... Naval Architecture
In toto has come to Ocean Engineering. Yes.
In that way I also consoled Sambandan. Yeah.
Who did M.Sc. with me and all this. I had good terms with him. Yeah.
Of course, with also.
And he was made co-project coordinators for two or three projects. Yeah.
So, that his importance need not be - left out. Yes. Yes.
In that way they became smooth.
Yeah And it has become a part of the Ocean Engineering Right.
Centre as B.Tech. Naval Architecture came
and now I think it is called B.Tech. Naval Architecture
and Ocean Engineering. Ocean Engineering, which is
more to - that way it has merged totally with Ocean Engineering. Yes.
So, that's where I would say that your contribution - key
contribution - was bringing together
what was a Naval Architecture division under ocean - under Civil Engineering
back into the mainstream of Ocean Engineering
and today, of course, we are all harmoniously working
so. Cold War was. Yes.
stopped. Yes, exactly that is what I am saying.
So, I admire I want to bring it to record the vision that you had
in bringing, because although Ocean Engineering
is a multidisciplinary department
we had our own problems and issues in this coexistence
and growth and everything.
Now, I want to touch upon some other aspects of those days
when Naval Architecture again was at that nascent stage,
I know that in your career while you were a
full fledged faculty and professor
you chose to go to the industry voluntarily
and spend 6 months, please tell us of that incident and experience.
See, I was asked to do on steel structures. Yeah.
That way I did.
Professor Varghese said steel structures here nobody else is doing anywhere
that way it will be very good if you go to
Bharath Heavy Plates you know HPVP. Yeah.
They are making this. Pressure vessels.
Yeah. Pressure vessels, spherical tanks
and all these. are making this for sometime there
and also Hindustan Shipyard where they are
fabricating ships. Ships.
In that way 6 months yeah he asked me to go there, yeah I went there and
I had a good fortune to have friendship with
Sambandan, Sambandan was there at that time. Right.
And other two. Yeah.
Misra and. yes other such people I stayed with them.
Yeah. I studied very well. Yeah.
How the structure is fabricated and how
that ship structure is nothing but a structure like any other.
Absolutely. But the loads are different.
Yeah. Loads are different by end sea loads and other such thing.
You just said that ship structure is nothing but just like any other structure
now this is one thing I love about the way you were teaching
that you could simplify many otherwise difficult concepts.
I remember being a student in your own class,
that you always made a subject look very easy.
To me that is a very important hallmark of a teacher.
So can you please narrate any incidents that may occur to your mind,
your interaction with the students,
did you always have a smooth time with them, did they really challenge you,
did - is there some incidents?
Yeah. Positive or whichever way.
See, after my retirement I was in Nagercoil. Right.
And there is in Tirunelveli some colleges are there. Yeah.
They called me for giving some lecture one day. Right.
And there a principal - no there principal is - was
He - he has done Ph.D. in Hydraulics. Right.
That's all I knew. Yeah. Of course,
good friends and all. Then when he addressed the students, he told
I taught him the Fortran language.
When I was in civil engineering, I took computer programming for the beginning. Yeah yeah.
He told, I know I knew computer programming only through him
and he took us Fortran language, and that was surprise to me.
I see he recalled the fact that you were there, teaching them. Yeah
And even our - Heritage - our CEO. Yeah.
he is, Kumararan yes yes. And he has written a email to me yeah.
That I attended your class on plates and cells.
Kumararan I mean
Yeah. Which was good and he has took.
Yeah, he was in the early '80s there. I met him. Yes yes.
Yes he was our student in the early '80s.
So, he is been here enjoying this job yeah
Like that some...
So, I again recalled because when I came to the department in '82
and joined the faculty, the early days.
'82 I was [inaudible]... Yes yes.
So, the early days were the days where you could hardly find
any vehicles in front of the department.
I remember seeing a Fiat car in front of the department,
we professors used to proudly owned our cycles and use them
for that matter, Professor Indiresan himself was on the cycle.
So, days have changed.
So, I would like you to touch upon the nostalgic aspects of those days
how - how were the camaraderie between colleagues,
you remember we used to have a tea room there.
Yes yes.
So, the, the - See about the vehicles: I used to come to IIT by my cycle
then towards the end I had this Luna. You had a Luna of TVS yes.
Then 1 or 2 years before my retirement I You had a Maruti, I know, I know.
Still I have in my house. Yes.
Then we - I always - we wanted to be together. Yeah.
That is why we started a coffee club. That's what I am saying, yeah.
And I - I know many people, they will bring the coffee (...)
professor or HOD or whatever it is.
He will bring there and Yes.
But I will never do that yeah I went there and
I will eat. That way I used to meet everybody. Yes.
Now the coffee club was a very important place to meet.
In fact, we even used to discuss in the faculty meetings
the issues of the coffee club, you know. I also used to take charge of that.
So, what I mean is it was a good fraternity of the
department in those days, yeah. And yes, faculty also went for one outing
Professor Indiresan also came. Absolutely. See, after Director post, Yeah.
That also ... incident ... after director post. [Inaudible] Yeah, yeah.
He did not want to go to IIT Delhi. Delhi.
Or something ...
... I don't know Yeah.
but he wanted to continue in IIT Madras. Yeah, yeah.
Being a Electrical Engineering professor
he was having some problem with Electrical Department. Right.
That way Ocean Engineering. Yeah accepted him to be here.
Yeah. Because he had that ocean energy project.
Right. He was - he gave ideas to Professor Raju and Professor Ravindran
that way all the 3 were, in that way I, I was called by the - the - then deans.
Yeah.
Professor Prithviraj and Professor Kuriakose. Kuriakose yeah.
Yeah. And they had, not they - somebody had some bad
thinking that I will not accept Professor Indiresan.
Oh, oh, ok. I will being ... I being head and all that. I told them, I will never do such things.
Right. He is always welcome, you forget about all that then. Yes.
That way he came Yeah to Ocean Engineering.
And when he left,
he thanked me and he said: you cooperated with me always.
Absolutely, I remember the days when he was our colleague also, yes
yeah And if he was given full freedom to continue the Ocean Energy Project. Right.
All these things. Yes.
Yeah, where he also had a stint in Germany for a couple of years
I think. I have met him there.
Now coming back to our subject area and ocean engineering today.
I just wanted you to share on a more global basis
or more on a national basis
that those days we all used to go abroad
for these collaborative programmes and
short and long-term stints there.
I always remember China used to send huge numbers of their
researchers to the West - to the Euro - to Europe, to Germany
and they were received in a big way.
And today after about almost 40 years
we have seen the transition of China which is a fact.
Now as Ocean Engineering Department
and with our interaction with the industry
how do you think we can take a leaf - I am not trying to say
we should copy China - say, how do we take a leaf out of this -
what kind of advice would you give,
that - how do we intensify the benefit of these
abroad stints where we get back something,
how do you think if we had an ideal scenario
that this could transform our industry into a
larger entity than what it is today.
See first of all, the industry should have an open mind to come to us. Right.
They came. See, even now I will not say no. They have come. For example,
Defence. Ministry of Defence for that ... just to give an example. Yeah.
These INS Vikrant was there.
Ski jump. They had the - they had the normal planes. Yes.
When they got a Harrier aircraft. Right.
It is heavy. Yes and it should have ... longer runway. Larger runway, right.
Larger runway is not possible therefore, they wanted to give a ramp. Ski jump.
That way they asked to descend the jump - ramp
so that the turbulence should not come. Yeah.
That project was given to us. Right.
We did it successfully with Professor Chandy
and [inaudible] was the Director General of Naval Designs. He came there
and - and the Chief of Staff also visited.
Chief of Staff also visited and they were very happy with the - Right, right.
similarly, this ISRO. Yeah.
In fact, sir, I would like to touch upon or stress on the fact that that Vikrant project
the creation of the ski jump was a wonderful
state-of-the-art creation by this department. See, I am not a
expert on this turbulence. Yeah.
But I saw. Yeah. Professor P. S. Srinivasan was there in the fluid mechanics. Yeah.
At certain stage, this- that wooden pieces which was - such - vibrate. Right yes.
[Inaudible]
That way they found out some such things and all these things.
See, it is a beautiful thing that somehow the navy had the confidence
to go by the tests and investigations that the department
conducted and implemented. That only now they are having that - Right, alright.
Naval Research Board or something. Naval Research Board. Yeah, yeah.
So, I think that's a nice example you have given
which is in a way an answer to the question I asked earlier
that we - do you agree that we need to be doing this with much more intensity
because nothing builds like success, nothing succeeds like success
you know? Yeah. Similarly there is ... ISRO. Yeah.
See this PSLV they are sending. Right. And we saw... capsule falls. Yeah.
That is left there itself.
They wanted to see when the capsule falls what will be- Recoverable. -the vibrations
Right. Whether it is got - got - spoilt or it will be floating. Yeah.
That way we did experiment with Bhattacharya.
Yeah, I know, the reentry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.
We two also did some software - We have done. And inland waterway. We have done, yes.
Yes. I do not know. See, the faculty should go
far away to ask. Yeah. Now I see in the newspaper; as a retired person
I am reading: inland waterway is very very important. Some fellows are telling. Yes.
That way we have to go. See, we are having expertise,
we will be able to solve many problems, we have to tell. Yes.
But if teachers are in their ivory towers, nobody will come. Yes.
I think I'll be happy to state here now
based on the foundations that our predecessors
have laid including you of course.
Not like that... Today our interaction with the industry is quite intense.
It should be.
So, yeah of course,
if you visit the department you will see the amount of activity
we have with the shipyards,
national, international, yeah. And we should tell them: see we are having these multi-element wave maker, Yeah.
Using this we can do so many things. Right.
For example, Naval Physical Oceanographic Laboratory.
Laboratories yes. Underwater cable... it's all very very
important defence-oriented projects. Right.
On the look, it will be looking nothing. Right.
But these are all very useful. Yeah.
That way what will be the configuration of the cable... Right.
And vibration will take place... Yes.
Or what should be the force...
all such things we need some projects like that Yeah That is ...
we - people are going for - and Orissa and that port. Right.
Gopalpur port. Yes. Gopalpur port, from there all the way he came. Yeah.
Even now the approach trestle is constructed there... with our design . Absolutely, absolutely.
It is standing and Sundaravadivelu is still continuing as -
And Sundar and - Yes, he is the expert on ports and harbour structures
and Sundar and company - Another, another - - they are the experts on break waters.
which I will say my contribution is
I started this user-oriented M.Tech. program. Absolutely.
Yeah. For port engineers. Money was given by them.
Right. That is according to me it is the first-user oriented in IIT
Madras- program that you started.
They paid money. Yeah.
And their engineers came here and our syllabus was slightly modified
or electives are added which will be useful to them. Yes.
In that way, user-oriented...
and that is the starting point for the present user-oriented you are having
2 or 3 petroleum engineering - With L and T. L and T. L and T. All such things, yes.
we also have a program with NIOT.
User-oriented program for M.Tech. in Ocean Technology. Yeah.
Yeah, that is true.
So, I think people today should remember that
our predecessors have done a lot of wonderful foundation job
which anybody would have done,
but the important thing is, this kind of visionary,
No visionary - steps -
They should continue the project without any selfishness. Yes, absolutely, yes.
During my Headship. Yeah, I never took a single research student for myself,
because people should not say being Head, he has taken by all these things. Yes.
Yes. In that way for 4 years it is a webworm.
I would recall this personally in the case of many of our colleagues
where you saw to it that they are taking and guiding and
you know, producing the - or at least guiding for the Ph.D.s
in a time-bound fashion because I remember your cautionary statement always
that if you don't take care of yourself -
And you used to provide the most important impetus for that. Yeah.
Looking at - looking back at all those things
I just wanted to ask one more thing,
would you like to have a message to our colleagues today? No,
Please don't say no, because I would like to say, No-
Messages should be always given and old people will give
No, I would like to receive it with pleasure. Yeah.
See what I get - get an impression is nowadays many people are selfish. Yeah.
They feel they want to improve their own biodata
without bothering about the progress of the departments. Right.
That should be Yes.
And we should collaboratively - unity should be there.
Yes. Or cooperation should be there. You should have Right.
another person who is in another area, whatever it is. Right.
And do some projects; we have to go out of the way
and inform the ministry, no, departments
see we are capable of doing such and such things. Right.
Right. Please come. Right, yeah.
So, that would be the key to success, the key to collective growth, yes.
See, Team effort. Yeah For example,
yes, this is a, this - MRPS, MRPS something is there, no?
Right.
They are exporting. Yes.
They made, but unfortunately it is not satisfying the
international standard because there is a small gap. Yeah, yeah.
Myself and ... Chandy Yeah.
Visited there.
and they are applying the pressure - liquid pressure - everything, everything is same,
but when the - and temperature is there volcanizing.
At the temperature, it - it expands.
Yes. Therefore, the metal comes out. Okay.
That way we gave a solution that - this should not be done like that.
That way they did and that way the projection was not there.
Nothing to do with Ocean Engineering. Yeah.
But still. Yeah. Because of the experience in the - see,
Chandy did for this integrity monitoring using ... artificial... Of the structures.
Yes. Neural network. Yes.
All those things has helped us to -
and we got a project from ONGC. Right.
For the- Integrity monitoring of the structures. Artificial neural network
for integrity monitoring of structures. Right. Monitoring of structures.
We did an experiment. Yeah. It was quite good, we made a jacket tower.
Yeah.
Measured the ... dynamic characteristics. We cut it. Yes.
Damage, yeah. Then there the it can be shown, see.
And this can be identified by our ANN or software like that.
Yes, yes. We have to convince them. Right.
Because managing directors are not experts. Experts.
in, in that way
they can see this, oh, these fellows
they have some ideas, etcetera, they should know. Yeah,
I ... think that is a very important hallmark of our department
because we have been interdisciplinary. Because we have to come down. Yes,
We have been interdisciplinary for example, just to briefly share
I am doing a work for the defence related to the
ordinance factory, the infantry combat vehicles.
Because they are going to be amphibious.
So, as you said it is not a ship. Yes.
But then the moment it's in water - Land also it will come and - Yes.
So, you know, with that kind of a open mindset
we have been able to collaborate
very effectively with the industry. And they are the apt people for designing that hydrocoil.
Yes.
Nowhere else; except IIT Kharagpur, nobody else will do.
Exactly. Hydrocoil designing.
Exactly yeah.
Structurally, you can take the help of our people. Right.
See at the time ... there was a proposal to
buy submersible by the government.
Central government. Right, right. There were some meetings
I was also asked to attend there by some people
but fortunately the cost was very much. Enormous. The secretaries
decided not to buy yeah that way submersible ...
bought. Could have been bought, yeah.
...I should not forget to touch upon another aspect. Yes.
Because we were at a time not having all the experts for all the subjects
because of the highly interdisciplinary nature
of the syllabus of our programmes.
And I remember how you led from the front by taking on courses
in the undergraduate level and with that example
you saw to it that our colleagues also take on courses.
We had courses like mechanical handling systems.
That is exactly what I wanted you to touch upon
you know just for the benefit of the- See, mechanical handling department I had a good rapport.
With Professor Parameshwar no. Because I took there - what the design of the crane -
Yeah.
Which ... it was a M.Tech. course, two courses are there.
Mechanical Handling 1 and 2, I took. I was taking that
That way, I can ask them to - shipyards and all such things Two courses for this. See, Parameswaran was very good that way
he did. Right. And we got some projects, Chitram crane company Cranes.
and all these things. Who set up the crane in Cochin shipyard, yeah.
And Professor Parameswaran used to design that gear and all this. Right.
The structural things. Right. I used to do and
fabricated and it was - So, you know it was a.
- Mechanical handling Yeah.
For only marine, of course, Vijayan helped afterwards I do not know
our people themselves - Yeah we had. We had - had studied and
Mechanical Engineers also joining us. Yes. And ship structures, I was taking.
Then Bhattacharya studied, Right. And we were taking. Like that
each man prepared themselves to - That is what I am saying, so the
the most important aspect was that we had the courage
and we did the hard work and we solved our problems
and we gained in confidence.
See. Yeah. Now, if you see none of us are experts on anything.
You take Professor - Sundaravadivelu too
now he is doing in coastal structures, ship structures,
not ship structures, boat structures, etcetera. Right.
By experience, experience, experience he gained. Yeah.
Structures are structures. Yes. Then
how the loads come. Yes. That way, similarly yourself.
Yes.
Or Sundar. Yes. Like that, like that, like that, we study and bring it.
So, I think that is very important. That is - that has made a good difference in our approach
to handling our problems taking our teaching. We could have easily said, no sir exactly this is not our
area, we cannot run - Yes.
or look for another colleague to be hired. Yeah. To get M.Tech. Ocean Engineering,
We have to fight like hell at that time. Yeah.
To start M.Tech course engineering. See, there was opposition.
Some unwanted opposition: a centre cannot start a M.Tech course.
Right. It has unfortunately our name was called - Ocean Engineering Centre. Centre.
Right.
In that way I met Professor M. C. Gupta, Dean of
Academic Research. Right. He is that - etcetera, etcetera, etcetera,
everybody helped us. Correct.
Yeah, I think we have -
Only reason why Ocean Engineering Centre is
thriving now is we had this educational programme -
all other 4 IITs, it's went down. Yeah.
Yeah. Resource Centre, in IIT Bombay Right.
Nothing is there, Right. Except maybe 1 or 2.
But here we are having a whole - entire department by
that 150 crores, Yeah, it is a full-fledged department, yes. Which was
started by Nayudamma Committee. Right, right.
Then cryogenic. Right. Cryogenic is there,
but not as a department and all these things. Exactly.
Because we had this academic program, we were successful. Absolutely.
and I think we had the vision and open mind. And how we have spread. Yes.
Yes. ... some petroleum engineering, Yeah.
that, this, that, etcetera ... many things.
Yeah, today we are so busy and so full that we don't have the space
and of course, IIT is expanding.
So, we have solutions for going into
more common academic complexes and
you know, spreading out a bit in the institute.
So, I am so happy that...
Ah, then, You could recollect. About other than
academic programme what were the...
I was a warden in Saraswati hostel
that is all normal. Right. But how
some students came sir you helped me lot
and all this, that is all normal.
Then as Engineering Unit, Chairman - that was a
good post. Professor Natarajan was the Director. Yeah.
He gave me a very good appreciation. Yeah.
And all this. Though I opposed
a little earlier when he was not Director. Yeah. There is a - there was a proposal
to have a guest tours for IST.
Indian Society for Technical Education,
which had good rapport with somebody ...
Yeah. They wanted to have a guest house near
some prime location. As a Chairman of Estate we discussed.
And the Senate I opposed tooth and nail. I see,
It was to be within the campus or?
It was to be within the campus. No, I suggested it is very good to have a guest house,
but you have it above the NCC building - NCC building or something
there - You are right. not a independent guest house. IIT is not meant for giving
guest houses, etcetera for others. Right. Right. I told.
Then when I came out from the Senate room, one or two colleagues:
how you can tell like that
to the director?
It was very very good what you told, but it was very dangerous.
Again, again, now that you - it just takes my mind back to some other aspects
I would say you never hesitated to call a spade a spade.
You know - See, after going home - Professor Natarajan called me. Yes
At that time he was not director. Yeah.
He was IST Chairman or something like that. Right.
He told hey, why, how you're giving a space for ICSR,
but you refuse to give for IST. Yeah.
I said ICSR - ah, NIOT. Ok.
How you are giving NIOT space in IIT. Space, but not for IST
Yeah.
Why do you want to compare NIOT,
Government of India is giving a lot of money for the IIT
and the department, IST what they will give?
Yeah. They will come and go.
Chairman will come and go stay there.
Correct. For 2 days and go away. Right.
How can you compare like that? Yeah.
The same Director has given very good appreciation after my...
Which meant you - you had the.
No. Conviction to - to hold to what you felt was right
and it was proven right. That's more important.
See, there is space in the NCC building first floor, second floor,
third floor, we can construct and leave it. Yeah yeah.
And again to put it on record the same NIOT has today blossomed into a huge
institution with who we are very closely interacting. Yes.
Thanks to the very positive attitudes we had with them.
Yeah, again to recount, during your chairmanship of the
engineering I always thought or always observed
that you always went into the details of small things. For example,
in between the main gate. Yeah.
In-gate and out-gate there was this thorny bush. Correct.
Right. Before were they were trying, trying, trying - it was not
it is having a very environmental problem it will never get destroyed.
Exactly it is very pernicious. And it will not allow other plants
to grow. Right.
That way I gave contract and I assigned; it was completely removed
not only there, even near the hostels. Yeah.
And now it is a very good garden. Yeah. In between there
and also now is not to be seen.
Yeah, yeah, of course, it was a recent issue that people even went to court
how IIT could remove it and all, I think we have amicably resolved it.
No it will not allow - Yeah it is a very
pernicious plant - other plants to come. Exactly, exactly
Now, I remember because even those days
you know we have this peculiar problem of
so many banyan trees in this campus
and they would grow invariably with their seeds on buildings
creating crevices.
So, I remember in your time you had a mission
to remove them from all the buildings
because it was ruining the buildings eventually.
Not Yeah, which comes under the - yes, exactly,
so, it's always very important
to look into the minute details which makes a big difference.
See for example, this - Yeah. Right. Speed breaker.
Being a Civil Engineer I went to IRC, courts are there
how it should be ... marked. Laid yeah.
Yeah. I insisted our engineering unit to see that IRC
marking should be done on the ... speed breakers. On the speed breaker yeah.
They done and it was, Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Previously, it was in a something else, ... laying on something. Yes, I remember, yes
to standardize it was taking a long time, yes.
I think one of the hallmark developments in our country was the
pioneering development that we did with regard to
wave energy in this country particularly with regard to the
oscillating water column and putting up a demonstrator plant at Vizhinjam.
So, if you could please tell us the genesis of that and how it went ahead,
the problems that we faced, how we resolved it, yes. I didn't resolve any problem.
See, wave energy is the brain child of Professor Indiresan.
Indiresan yeah.
It is very layman's approach type.
Yeah. See, when the energy is there, why not we
In that way at that time we had that 4-metre flume.
He took 2 drums.
Yeah. This - and the when the wave passes
it will move up and down. Oscillates, yeah.
And then it will have some ... and like it was bending and all these things. Yeah.
Yeah. That way he was convinced it will be very...
Right.
And there were there were many professors in IIT, not our Ocean. Right.
They said it doesn't satisfy the equation and all.
The energy. Thermal. Yeah.
Equilibrium itself.
Yeah. It doesn't satisfy the laws of thermodynamics, it will be a failure,
they told. And of course, they would have suffered also,
perhaps Professor Indiresan would not have liked it.
Then, then and that way, but; however, we had our Professor Raju
and Professor Ravindran. Right.
Who, when, Ravindran being a mechanical engineer, Yeah.
they were doing a lot.
And we are - as a department, we gave all the support. Right.
Though I never got involved because it is not my area. Right.
It is area of Professor Ravindran and of course, Professor Raju
also, in that way it was going on. Yeah.
And fina- in ... they made a prototype. Right.
On that they got money from the government - central government,
the real problem as I see are ICSR at that time.
It is false, fluctuating. Fluctuating.
Energy. Right.
Therefore, if you take an average it will never be useful.
Ok. It cannot be converted to the
Sustained useful. Sustained useful conversion into energy, right.
... but I see because of that they should not leave. Yeah.
They tried their level-best with the prototype also. Right.
But it was not really successful. Yeah
possibly it was technical, but not commercially successful. Yes. Yeah.
I mean. Yeah. And another thing they wanted to do ... ocean thermal energy.
Right yeah. When there is difference between the depth
Yeah.
Here the- Surface water, yeah. Temperature is less.
And they brought a scheme in Lakshadweep we can have.
Yeah. Shore-supported ocean energy. Right.
Etcetera, etcetera. Right. But I didn't see that as a commercial.
That is true, yeah. It didn't come up.
They, I don't think they have created directly electrical energy
or power out of it but I think they have been using it for desalination
using the cold water from the bottom and the surface warm temperature
and running a reverse refrigeration cycle or
flash evaporation yeah. In this case, it has not reached a commercial point. Yeah
Possibly the place Lakshadweep you can justify
because they do not have any choice yeah. But at that time still they are telling
nothing is coming up. Yeah. They could - see, as I told. you should convince the
decision-maker. Right. They should
go and tell the decision-maker, whoever it is.
Right. Then if he is convinced he will say,
there if it has not come, the mistake is you should not - we have not. As clear yeah.
Or it is not capable of. Correct, correct, correct, yeah.
When coming to the GATE. Yeah.
See at that time Common Entrance Examination for Postgraduate Admission.
CEPA. CEPA.
Other IITs were joining with our IIT for a few periods. Right.
then they said, no, no, we are going away. That way our IIT continued.
And we conduct the exam
we publish the results. Yeah.
Based on the result they used to give admission also. Right.
CEPA, that is - So, CEPA was the prelude to the GATE.
GATE. Yeah.
Just above before we stop.
Yeah. I was the controller - they will appoint a controller. For conducting
And joint-controller. Right.
Joint-controller will be controller for next year. Right.
That way, like that, last class
I was controller and a joint-controller was
Professor Padmanabhan - K. Padmanabhan Metallurgy. Metallurgy.
Right, yeah.
That way, when Professor Padmanabhan became
controller, at the time itself, GATE has come.
Right. And it was stopped and it has
...transitioned to - GATE Transformed into the GATE. Gate, right, right.
Yeah. It was a very, very tough job. Right yeah.
Secrecy is so much. Yes.
Secrecy is so much. Yes.
Even for the proof correction of question papers.
We should not get the ... help of others. Yeah, right. All such
things were there in that way, our IIT did very well. Yes. Even today
JEE etcetera is done at the topmost, secretly. Yes.
Yeah, definitely, there is an example of how to conduct an exam
and how to take on the aspects that there is no league,
there is no malpractice, there are no mistakes
and I know it is a nerve-racking thing.
So, you pioneered the CEPA and then it became the GATE. No pioneering
I was - It was a - It was running on.
Was it already running many years? I see.
4, 5, 6 years. 4 - 5 years ok. Yes. So, it evolved
ok. CEPA, it was called. Yeah, yeah, great.
Because of the experience, GATE came. Yeah. Yeah.
Similarly at that time JEE also we did for the first time
civil engineering, I was.
The chairman was Professor Varghese. At that time, JEE. Yeah.
So, and I was involved in JEE many ways.
...so many days. Right.
Then, till then the rank is by mechanical - manual.
People will find out, you will call the number and then
then - at that - when Professor Varghese was the chairman
he said, they decided, why not we use the computer. Computer, yeah.
The computer - you cannot asked, I didn't tell. About IIT Madras, Yeah.
When I joined, Professor Sengupto was the Director. Yeah.
He isn- people say, he was of the opinion. Yeah.
that my engineers need not have to go to computer they should use the slide rule. Right.
That way he said no computer and he didn't come at all.
And many people were interested to do. Right.
Then we used to go to College of Engineering Guindy. Right.
They had IBM 1620. Right.
And when this JEE ranking came
we prepared the rank, student mark.
Right. Student mark, each card punching - myself and Professor C.
S. Krishnamurthy. Right.
We punched all these things, all secret. Now
you should not tell this has spread - and then we went to
College of Engineering Guindy. Ok.
One minute, it will come.
Yeah ok. Test will sort out.
Right.
And we will took the print out and gave and
it was useful - like that, the computer.
Was slowly initiated into the process. Yeah, yeah, wonderful.
And when Professor A.
Ramachandran came next to Professor Sengupto,
first thing he did was to get IBM 370. Right, yeah.
That way, things move. That was our very fancy, high-end
system in those days, yeah.
Wonderful, sir, I think- Thanks. It's been my great pleasure to touch upon
all these aspects and
I'm so happy you could share your experiences
which will be a great
pleasure for viewers of this series
to learn of the heritage of IIT Madras, the transition from those days
of course, we are still a young institute
less than 70 years right, 60 years yeah.
Just like I am young, said to be young. But I find you absolutely young at heart.
Most wonderful.
Thank you very much for - bringing Yeah thank you so much.
out all the details. Yeah, thank you so much. My pleasure.
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