Prof. E.G. Ramachandran in conversation with Prof. B.S. Murty
I joined the IIT in 1961. '61?
Before that,
I was working at the National Metallurgical Laboratory.
And before that, at the Indian Institute of Science,
where I was also a student
of Professor sir C. V. Raman.
I joined the Metallurgy Department at the
Institute of Science in 1947,
soon after I got my PhD from Sheffield,
and I continued there,
with some small break, till 1956.
In 1956,
I went to the National Metallurgical Laboratory
as Assistant Director, Physical Metallurgy Division.
I stayed there till 1961
and then, came to IIT Madras,
where I worked till 1986.
Since then, I have been leading a
sort of retired life, enjoying my leisure
with my family and close friends,
of whom I count Professor Murty as one.
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Sir, your student days in Chennai,
do you recall any of them?
I was never a student in Chennai.
I was always a student in Bangalore.
So, your...So, MSc was...
MSc was also in Central College Bangalore. In Bangalore, okay.
BSc honors’
in Physics and MSc in Physics. Okay.
Then, I spent a year in Institute of Science
under Professor sir C. V. Raman, Okay.
doing some research on...
That was at the IISC, was it?
IISC. okay.
In 1944. '44...
- '45. Okay.
Doing some work on single crystals of aluminum.
I was the...
Single crystals of aluminum?
first to grow
those single crystals, I think in, I mean, in India.
And, it was not super purity aluminum,
but commercial aluminum. Commercial aluminum.
Still I was able to get single crystals,
about 1 centimeter, 1 centimeter long
That is amazing. and, half a centimeter wide.
If I had super purity aluminum at that time, Yeah.
I could have grown much bigger crystals. True, true, true, true, because
otherwise, the heterogeneous nucleation will always be there.
Yeah. So, that is something which...
Then I went to University of Sheffield.
Actually, Professor C. V. Raman gave me a
a a letter of recommendation
to the Professor of Metallurgy at Sheffield University.
And, on the strength of that letter,
he gave me admission to PhD.
And, I heard that you got PhD at 22 years of age? Yeah.
When I went there...
This is amazing. And, there gave my formal application...
My formal application
came through the Indian High Commissioner,
about 6 months after I joined the Department
Of Metallurgy.
It took so much time
for all the red tape to be unraveled.
And, when they came,
they found that I was under age.
They required 22 years
as the minimum age
to join for the university. To join. Yeah, I was 20.
Oh okay.
But, they gave me a special exemption.
So that, I was able to complete my PhD in 1947,
when I was 22 years of age.
Amazing, sir.
And, I came to
Indian Institute of Science as a lecturer.
In 1947. '47.
I stayed there, except for a short period as a
deputy level professor of Metals in Governments India,
at the Institute of Science,
till I moved over to National Metallurgical Laboratory,
and from there I came to IIT, Madras .
So, you...you were there almost 9 years in IISC
as a faculty member, okay.
Yes, from 1947
till 1956. '56.
Yeah. So, any reminiscences of that time?
Yes, I had very good contact with the students.
I was, firstly, not much older than many of my students. Okay.
And, that improved the chances of good contact.
And, I went and had food in the common mess. Okay.
And, I used to play tennis in the Gymkhana.
I heard that you were always a tennis star!
All those factors... Yeah.
made me, my life, very much of a social thing,
in addition to academic things.
And, I heard that you are there for about 5 years in NML?
Yeah. '56 – '61. After I went to
national NML - National Metallurgical Laboratory, in Jamshedpur,
I spent 5 years there, and I came to IIT Madras.
You had two papers in Nature those days.
Yeah, the Coloured Science. Yeah, Nature. Which is, which is, which is very.
amazing. Yeah.
You...you want to say a few words about them, sir?
It's not easy to see a metallurgist publishing in Nature;
I haven't seen many. Yes, I had a student by name Dasarathi,
who is now settled in England.
And, he and I worked on the transformation of arsenite.
And, we had some some new observations
on the effect of hydrogen
on the transformation of arsenite. Okay.
I reported this in Nature
and that was a rather unusual place
for a metallurgical article. Correct, correct, correct.
But, they accepted it. They accepted it.
And, it was the, I think, the first effort by
an Indian metallurgist True, sir.
to contribute to nature.
Not only that sir, I would say even
in the last you know 50 years, I have not seen many
metallurgy faculty, at least from India,
Yeah. publishing in Nature.
So, that is amazing.
I also had a couple of short articles
in Acta Metallurgica.
I have seen many of them.
Which was then considered the
top most journal for metallurgists,
Acta Metallurgica. Even now, sir,
even now. Even now.
I know. Yeah.
So, that was my introduction to
metallurgical research as such.
Your interest in industrial metallurgy started in NML?
That was only in IIT Madras.
Only after coming to IIT Madras.. Yeah.
We had divisions of physical metallurgy.
Then, we had also mechanical metallurgy
and industrial metallurgy.
Foundry was part of industrial metallurgy,
metal joining and metal casting,
metal and nondestructive testing...
they all formed a part of industrial metallurgy. Correct.
We, we made, we made a quite a good name
for ourselves in the field of industrial metallurgy.
And I am happy to say that, this, my
youngs friends and students,
Professor Roshan, Roshan.
Professor Prabhakar were the stalwarts
in this in this division. True true.
And, they gave me considerable support
and participated in all my
activities, particularly in my collaboration with the industry.
That is true, sir.
Yeah. '61 when you joined,
Yeah. were there any other faculty in the department, sir?
There was one,
one assistant professor by name T. Ramachandran.
Who
who joined as an assistant professor,
from a research institute in Germany, directly.
And, he spent 2 years here,
but he...joined on a salary
far below what he should have got. Okay.
And, I was so glad
when he got a professorship
in Surathkal, where he retired Okay.
some years back. Okay.
There was also Professor Vasudevan
and Professor Srinivas Raghavan, who succeeded
Dr. Ramachandran in the department.
And there was one Dr. Herwadkar also. Okay.
But, he left soon after,
a couple of months. Okay.
There was also one Dr. Das,
Mr. Dasgupta who was a
in mechanical metallurgy.
He was...he then joined Hindustan Steel, Okay.
in Rourkela, in a higher capacity.
Were there also some German professors?
There was one Dr. Zuern,
who was a professor of welding, actually. Ok.
And, a Professor Wagener,
who was...Wagener, who was a professor in metal forming.
They were the two German professors
attached to the department.
I got on very well with Dr. Zuern.
Who was...
who had a great rapport with
the student community also. True true.
And, Dr. Zuern,
came to know my parents in Bangalore very well
and he is he became a family friend,
Dr. Zuern. I visited Dr. Zuern in Germany
many years later and his...
yeah, one of his sons was born in Madras.
That was...which is a connection with Chennai. Okay.
He had two sons, he has two sons. Okay.
One of the younger sons, the younger son
was born in Wellington nursing home,
In Nungambakkam.
Interesting. Yeah.
You have mentored a lot of faculty during your 25 years of your career.
You have mentored many faculty members. Oh, I see.
So. I am thankful for the opportunity.
They were all at one time my students,
are very much younger and junior to me.
The senior most amongst the faculty
was Professor Vasudevan,
Professor Vasudevan. who was...
who joined the Indian Institute of Science in 1957,
a year after I left the institute
to join the National Metallurgical Laboratory.
When he...when I came to IIT Madras,
he and Professor Srinivas Raghavan
were both joined as lecturers. Okay.
They came back to join Yeah.
with you. Yeah.
That is great, that is great,. Yeah.
Yeah similarly, you have talked about Professor O. Prabhakar and
Professor Roshan. They were Yeah, Professor Prabhakar was a student
of the Metallurgy Department here.
Professor Roshan came from IISC Bangalore
with a foundry, but he did his doctorate under me.
And, so did Prabhakar.
And. Professor V. M. Radhakrishnan was also there, those days?
Yeah, even Professor Radhakrishnan
came from Mechanical Engineering Department.
He joined as an assistant professor in Metallurgy Department.
Yeah. Okay, wonderful.
So, those days, physical metallurgy...the other industrial metallurgy were
Yeah, we have a, In fact, we gave lot. growing significantly,
more lot more importance to
industrial metallurgy than physical metallurgy itself.
Though, you yourself were a physical metallurgist. Though I was was originally a physical metallurgist,
This is amazing. I transformed myself into an industrial metallurgist.
I call myself a general metallurgist. Okay, okay.
I graduated out of physical metallurgy, so to speak.
Okay. Just to add, sir...
The department has recently started
a programme of MTech in industrial metallurgy,
coming back from your days.
Oh, I see.
So, this is the uniqueness of this is Very good, very good.
this is going to be offered
in an e-learning mode.
Very nice. Here, our faculty will teach in the evening hours.
And, the people from industry, they will sit in their industry
and watch the lectures.
Very very very interesting. And, that... we will be able to do that.
Very interesting, yeah, yeah. So, this is, this is something which is new,
which has...we are going to start very soon, about this.
Yeah.
You want to also talk about your interaction with the students, sir?
Yeah, I heard that you are always very... Yeah
a hero of the students in those days. Yeah.
That was because of my interest in sports, mainly.
I participated in the staff – student cricket match
I heard that you used to regularly go to staff club. and
Staff club...in the shuttle tournament as well as
ball badminton, I was a star player.
In tennis of course, and... Not, not in cricket?
Cricket I played one or two matches. Staff versus students. Okay.
But not much in cricket.
But, mainly in tennis.
Mainly in tennis. And shuttle badminton.
There were a inter IIT
sports meets, you used to go for those, those days? Yeah, we use to have
some sports in those days.
I think they are continuing even now.
There is a photograph here,
you want to recognize that, professor? Yeah.
Mrs. H. V. R. Iyengar.
H. V. R. Iyengar was Chairman of the Board of Governors,
she was giving some prizes. okay.
This was which year, any idea? around 70s?
Possible. Probably even earlier than that.
Wonderful, want to show any other photo?
Yes, I can recognize here, Mr. Srinivasan,
who was the physical training instructor. Okay.
Mr. Natarajan, Professor Anantharaman...
That I cannot recognize. Okay.
And, that is myself and...
You look like a real sportsperson.
That is amazing, sir.
That was Professor Lutz. okay.
And, Dr. Sivaramakrishnan at the end.
Yeah. And, this was...
Yeah. And, this is...just now we have seen,
maybe a convocational address?
Yeah. You know Kashi...and third from left. Kashi.
Okay yeah, yeah. Last convocation.
Dr. Radhakrishnan was the chief guest.
Yes, yes.
Yes, yes, yes, Radhakrishnan was the chief guest.
That is Radhakrishnan.
That was the... First.
First, first convocation, yeah. Yeah.
Correct. This is here.
So, he was sitting there, in the second row .
This is Chemistry inauguration.
I am sitting second from right.
Yeah, second from the right. I can see. Yeah, yeah.
Inauguration of Chemistry? Chemistry.
Chemistry department, no? Yeah.
Good, good.
You want to recognize any faces here, sir?
Do you recognize any faces here?
The one next to me was Professor Pandalai,
who is now unfortunately no more.
First row, on the right, who is that?
That is Professor Koch. Physics.
Physics. Physics, yes.
He came for Physics.
Yeah, Professor...O. Prabhakar also fondly remembers him,
since, he taught him Physics. Yes. Yeah.
That is Professor M. V. C. Sastri. Dr. Gururaj Das, M. V. C. Sastri.
who was director of the
Chemical Research Institute, in Karaikudi. Yes.
Your memory is amazing sir. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is Mr. Mani, who was workshop superintendent.
Professor Varghese. Yes.
Professor Narayanamurthi.
Myself, Venkateswarlu.
That I cannot make out. B. V. A...B. V. A. Rao? B. V. A. Rao.
B. V. A. Rao?
B. V. Rao,
B. V. A. Rao...B. V. A. Rao
B. V. A. Rao, she says.
Convocation dinner, this is some?
I think so, some...sometime at that time.
This is Dr. Subbramanian. Myself.
Giving you...
We were presented with some sports award. Okay, okay.
I heard that every year you used to win, those days, tennis
Yeah. particularly.
Yeah. Tennis. Shuttle badminton also. Okay, okay.
The other two, do you recognize, sir, anyone?
That is Natarajan. okay.
That I cannot recognize.
Again, you are at the end there. Yeah.
Some German delegation, looks like.
You can recognize me by my prominent nose.
True, true, true, yeah.
Anyone, again? Yeah.
Who is chairing there? Professor Koch?
No. No.
No, it is a some...some visitor from Germany, I think.
Some of your colleagues here? No.
Some students. We all met the gentlemen here.
I was a Dean of Students,
something like that.
You were also Deputy Director for some time?
Yeah, yeah.
How long was that, professor?
Probably 2 years.
When, when? Do you remember the period, sir?
19...1979 I think. '79 to '81?
This is J.R.D. Tata.
H. V. R. Iyengar,
Chairman of the Board of Governors.
Dr. J. Ramachandran, Director.
That is Professor M. V. C. Sastri,
and that is myself.
Okay. Thank you, thank you.
Do you want to recollect any facilities
that were set up during those days, professor?
Facility for what?
Any.
Department? Equipment...equipment that had come up during those days?
Yeah, we had the electron microscope.
When was the first electron microscope came
to the department, professor?
It...I think, it came in 1967, I think. '67?
A lady, Dr. Butanuth,
who was considered to be a specialist electron microscopy,
she came as professor.
But, she was very unhappy
in the department.
And, her husband was a professor in the Chemistry Department.
And, she was in the Metallurgy Department.
And, they both left very soon.
They didn’t serve their full term.
And, who took over from then, then onwards?
For some time, nobody took over,
then I spent a year in Sheffield...
No, in Swansea.
Where I did a lot of electron microscopy work.
So, when I came back here, I could
take charge of the electron microscope.
Though normally, it was Professor Srinivas Raghavan.
Srinivas Raghavan. But, he was a bit
reluctant to take the responsibility. Okay.
I heard that later, for quite some time, he was in charge of it.
Later on, quite some time. Yeah.
In fact, in the '80's. He had
much...many phobias about this instrument.
About...It was supposed to be a general purpose instrument,
supposed to service the whole institute. Whole institute.
But, it did not serve that purpose.
Now, the now the microscopy facility has
significantly improved, sir.
Yeah, I know, I know, I know. You must have of heard of it.
I know. We have a Titan now.
We have an atom probe now.
I mean, amazing facilities have come Yeah.
to the institute, sir.
But, there are quite a number of German
metal forming equipment I see even now,
did they come in over that time? Yeah, they...
They set up the metal forming laboratory and
the metal joining also.
They must have seen a lot of equipment
in metal joining Correct, correct.
metal forming and Lot of process...
my... Yeah, yeah.
Each of the...there was a professor...
a German professor attached to each.
Professor Zuern for metal welding.
Metal welding.
And Professor Wagener
for metal forming. Forming.
Professor Wagener didn't stay very long
and he was a bit of a loner.
Dr. Zuern was the opposite.
And, he interacted very freely with
not only me, but with all the staff
and all the rest of the institute.
And, though he was normally in-charge of welding,
he helped the department quite a bit.
That's good, that's good.
For some time, as I told you
we had a professor come for electron microscopy.
But, she didn't Stay for long.
work out well. It did not work well and she went back
very dissatisfied. In fact, when I joined here '92.
The microscopy lab was given to me,
I took over that lab. Yeah.
And, now this grew to a large extent. Yeah.
Good. And when you retired in '96
how many faculty were there
in the department at that time point of time, sir?
Around 15 or?
I do not remember, I do not know. Now, we are about 30.
I just wanted to know. There were not, there were not 15 faculty.
There were... It was a smaller department.
Yeah, yeah. Was a smaller department.
There was Vasudevan, Srinivas Raghavan.
There was S. K. Seshadri.
And, there was Roshan. Professor Roshan...
Professor Roshan is coming this week.
Oh. He is going to spend some time
giving a talk in the department.
Every year he comes
and he tries to give a talk.
He is still continuing his
multimedia on metal forming and metal
casting. Casting, metal casting.
Do you, do you remember your campus life here, sir?
Yes, I moved into the campus
You are in Leger road, sir? in 1963.
'63. Though, I joined the institute in 1961,
the quarters were not ready then.
As soon as the professors quarters were ready,
I moved in, in '63
and stayed there for 23 years.
Which quarter was that?
B 1. B 1.
B. I was in B 1, sir.
B 8 6. Okay, okay. Good, good.
We had a road linking my house to Vanavani School.
Vanavani School, okay.
And, my younger daughter studied in Vanavani School. Vanavani School.
She could, we could
walk her there and walk her back.
Wonderful.
My elder daughter studied in the Central School.
Okay. One in Vanavani, Which was...
one in Central School. Yeah, which was at that time
just one year old.
So, anything else that you want to recollect
and any anecdotes professor? I had a very
very good time at IIT.
I recall only with pleasure
the time I spent here and
so many memories come back.
And, the ladies club was
was built first. They had a big hall.
The staff club had to content
itself with a space underneath the water tank.
So, we borrowed the ladies club
for our shuttle badminton tournaments.
Even now, sir, in the ladies club,
shuttle badminton is being played.
I see. My kids go regularly and play.
That is good.
So, that must be... The only disadvantage was that
the roof was not high enough. Okay.
So, whenever the shuttle hit the roof,
it was replayed. And...
Now, it is very tall.
Now, the roof is very tall.
The OAT was also there those days?
Yeah. OAT, OAT was there. The movies were there? You use to have movies?
Yeah, Saturday. Yeah, yeah. Every Saturday movie.
But, mostly English movies. Mostly.
There were no local movies.
No language movies in those days.
They were all, all English movies. All English movies. Good.
Yeah, and there was a music association.
We have, right now, our Shastra and Saarang
about to start.
Okay, from tomorrow.
So, do you remember any such festivals?
People talk about Mardi gras those days?
Yeah Mardi gras was there. And...
Were you involved in the... The music club
was inaugurated by a very famous musician.
Musiri Subramania Iyer.
Who was Sangeetha Kalanidhi and all that, very great musician.
And, it was there for about
few years, then, it went in into oblivion.
But, the later Professor T. T. Narendran management...
Yeah. I think he has revived it.
Yeah. It is very active now.
I see. Music club is very active now.
Quite a number of my own colleagues
Subramanian Sharma, is also deeply involved in that.
So, a very active music club now.
So, Mardi Gras was very popular those days?
Yeah.
This was a cultural festival probably? Yeah, it was yeah.
Yeah. Was it also a scientific festival?
Or only a cultural? Only a cultural festival.
So, the shastra events were not in there. No, no.
No. Now, we have separated the two.
Yeah.
One for the technical festival.
One for, the, you know...
Social, yeah yeah.
So, and nowadays
both of them are being organized back to back,
over a period of about 10 days.
So, the festival starts tomorrow, more or less
and, it goes until about 11th or 12th.
Good.
You were DD, you know, your Deputy Director period,
do you remember any events, anything that was organized or any?
No, they were mostly routine. Routine.
Routine, no, nothing special. Nothing special those days.
So, anything else, sir?
Any message that you want to share with the youngsters?
Well, I wish them all good luck.
Yeah, that is the only the message.
We need your blessings, sir.
Definitely. You have really shaped up the department.
Your department is
really growing to a much bigger state and Yeah, yeah.
Thanks to a lot of youngsters who are all there. Yeah.
Thanks to all your, you know, dreams Yeah.
Yeah. that you have nourished
Yeah. and then grown.
Yeah. Thank you very much, sir.
Thanks for this interview.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming all the way.
Thank you very much.
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