Prof. V.S. Raju in conversation with Prof. V.G. Idichandy (Video Conference)

I was born in rural Andhra Pradesh in a very small village

and where we had only a primary school

and went to high school in the neighbouring village.

And those days you know

even to have a pair of chappals are the luxury.

Correct.

So, I tell my grandchildren that

I got my first chappals at the age of 8

and probably that was the most happiest

time, one of the most happy times of my life.

I used to a very proud with walking with those chappals.

Then, I did intermediate in the neighbouring town,

about 5 kilometers or so from our village.

So, first year intermediate I used to cycle there and

second year stayed in a rented room.

And after intermediate,

I was not qualified immediately to join engineering

because of the minimum age criteria they had.

In those days, you should have a minimum age to join

and then I was I think when I finished my

intermediate, I was only a 14, so very young.

So, then fortunately, what happen is that

Andhra University College of Engineering,

that we are only the relaxed age.

So, it was informed to me by one of my seniors

that there is an age relaxation and

I immediately applied and got admission

into College of Engineering Andhra University.

This is in Vizag?

College of Engineering Andhra University.

This is in Vizag or where is it?

It is in Vizag, it is in Vizag, it is in Vizag. Alright,

Ok, sir.

Then, my father who was a farmer,

who got educated only up to class 5,

his dream was that his son should pass high school.

So, that was his dream he could not think higher than that.

So, he put in lot of effort

in motivating me to study well in school.

For example, he used to wake me up at 4 in the morning

and with a kerosene lamp

you know it's all dark around and you are afraid,

so he used to sit next to me

and so that I can study without fear.

Ok.

So, that training

helped me to focus on studies and then it became very easy.

So, I was privileged to top my school in high,

for high school and then

then go for intermediate and then get admission to

College of Engineering Andhra University.

And then after his bachelor, my father being a farmer,

for them a irrigation supervisor, our overseer, is a big man.

Ok.

So, he was very keen that I should join the Irrigation Department.

Government. The government.

And I got an offer also

to join the Irrigation Department.

But I met one Colonel, Military Engineering Services,

who is introduced, who was introduced to me through somebody,

then when he saw my academic record

he said joining MBA or

government department is not for you.

Your academic background is very good, so you should go for a master's.

So, my father was not in agreement with that

because he and he also said he cannot support me,

with Master’s degree that would be difficult.

But then I said there are some scholarships available.

Ok.

So, anyway finally, I convinced him and

went to Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore

Yeah.

for my master's.

Then you know that time there were 3 different programmes

in structural engineering, in hydraulics and in

geotechnical or not, those days we used to call it soil mechanics.

The soil mechanics programme was to 9 months plus

6 months of practical training.

Ok.

Whereas, the other programs were 1 and a half

years plus 6 months of practical training.

So, because this is a shorter program,

Ok. So I chose soil mechanics.

Ok. And then,

but unfortunately the criterion they adopted

for scholarships was also the mean.

So, in the interview when one of the faculty

member asked me what did your father does,

If I told him in agriculture and then we own 10 acres of land I told him.

So, then he said 10 acres is a lot of land.

So, that means, you are a rich farmer.

Your father is a rich farmer.

Ok.

So, that he did'nt give me the scholarship,

so that was very hard.

Then afterwards I met the head of the department and explained to him.

Then he was very kind and then he found some

40 rupees per month scholarship

instead of 150 rupees that was a.

Ok. Anyway somehow I managed

and a friend of mine

who was on leave from Banaras Hindu University

to study the master's attaining a degrees of science,

he told me that there is a faculty position vacant,

lecturer’s position vacant in Banaras Collage.

So, I applied and then got an interview

and then afterwards got selected as lecturer.

Ok.

So, that is how I started my teaching career

at Banaras Hindu University.

And then because I finished school early by jumping classes

then I was only 19 plus when I started as a lecturer.

Yeah.

So, that was a scary experience

because I was asked to teach final year classes.

Ok.

And among the students were older than me.

So, in the class.

And then, they used to make fun of me

when I turn to the board to write,

then we had a very well-known picture

starred by Raj Kapoor in those days

and there is a very famous song, Raju mera naam.

Ok. So, they sing that song.

So, that is how I started my academic career.

Maybe I will stop here, maybe you have some

something to ask about what I have said.

Ok sir.

Sir, ok

BHU was your first teaching assignment.

Yes.

Then, you went for doctorate programme to Germany.

Yes.

As you did it in Karlsruhe the University, University of Karlsruhe you know.

Yeah, that's correct.

Ok.

Why why did you choose Germany?

Because.

Yes.

Probably that was the time U.S.

education must you know many people

you know went to U.S. ,

I think probably in your contemporary age, but why why Germany?

Yes, yes. So, is there your some

special motivation for selecting?

See, while at Banaras I saw an advertisement

in the papers about the German Government Scholarships.

Ok.

So, I said why not I apply?

I didn't know much about Germany in those days.

Ok.

But anyway I thought that

the fact that they are offering scholarships for Indian students,

so it must be interesting.

And then you know what is another interesting fact is that

I just thought that what will they ask me in the interview?

I felt that because this scholarships were open

I thought that what will they ask me,

then I felt that they will definitely ask me why I want to go to Germany.

Just like you asked why I went to Germany.

Then I was looking for an explanation for this question

and then I was looking for literature to to identify a professor

in Germany with whom I want to go on.

Then, those days Germans were not publishing in English journals,

but with great difficulty I found

the one article by a professor by name Schrute,

he is from University of Aachen.

Ok.

So, when I went for the interview

promptly they asked me why do you want to go to Germany?

So, then I said I want to work with Professor

Schrute in University of Aachen.

I could see in the face of the people especially in the German

person who was sitting there he was so happy

because he didn't expect me to know

the name of the professor and the place I want to go.

Ok.

Then, I already knew that I am

going to be selected because

from the response because they cant ask technical questions,

because there are 25 scholarships for all branches,

including science, arts, engineering, medicine, everything like that.

Ok.

So, that was an experience.

So, I got selected.

So, then I just went.

And we are all taken by a ship in those days you know.

Yes. We went from Bombay to Marseille and then from Marseille in France.

Ok.

We were driven by bus that to your place,

the way be attended as German language course.

Ok.

4 months.

That was very interesting.

So, then, so you learn German

and its a very intensive training.

So, the nobody these teachers won't speak to you in English at all,

even though they know English.

So, they make you.

So, after 4 months even though I wanted to,

I suggested, I said I want to go to Aachen, University of Aachen.

Because another person from CSR was already selected for Aachen.

Ok.

They sent me to Karlsruhe.

Ok.

Which started out because Karlsruhe Institute was bigger,

more activity and the professor was very well known

Professor Loy (Incoherent).

Later he became the German Minister for Science and Technology.

Ok.

Very famous man.

And of course, he was also the

a director or the president of the university

and he was also president of the directors conference and

president of the scientific and advisory committee to the German 216

government and so on and so forth.

He was a member of the CDU or SPD?

No, not at all.

He was very difficult to see him at the first place.

So, I went to the institute and then

the number two person, Professor Glinde,

who was literally running the institute,

he received me and then they showed me a place, a room, my room

and showed me the library and the lab and here you are.

Ok.

So, they won't tell you anything what do you do

or anything like that, you have to signify out.

So, that was a new experience for me because

in India we everybody here guided you know.

Correct that's correct.

Then everybody is busy, nobody is talking to you

and then nobody told me what are the timings.

So, then I figured out myself coming very early

to find out that the first person used to come at 6 in the morning.

Wow.

To the institute, and the last person was

probably leaving the institute by 9 in the evening.

So, those days Germany was in the process of building up

and they were really working very hard.

Actually, the week was 6 and half days a week.

So, including the Sunday mornings

we used to go out.

So, that was very good for me because there was

alot of work being done.

And then quickly to conclude always then

very important thing has happened that

in month or so, I was

allowed to see the professor.

Then, I told him in my broken German that is

saying sir I want to do Ph.D.,

then he said Mr. Raju Ph.D. it will take 6 years here.

And before you can do Ph.D., you must learn the practice of

geotechnical engineering or foundational engineering.

Then, I told him, sir, I am already on leave and have a job

and they will not give me 6 years leave that won't be possible.

Then, he took pity on me and said I will make an exception.

You find a topic for research

and convince me that the topic is worth

doing research for a Ph.D.

So, the entire responsibility was on me.

So, after 4 months, I informed the Indian that I am now

have a topic for research

and then I have written something together, first

in English and then took somebody’s help to translate it to German.

Then, they said professor is too busy to read that.

So you have to give an seminar.

Ok.

So, the seminar was arranged

and I was and that seminar was to be given in German.

So, it was very tough

and I was also not very clear about the topic.

And then I was reading instead of speaking.

Ok.

And the whole thing took one and half hours.

So, at the end of one and half hours the professor stood up and said

Mr. Raju, a seminar is given for 30 minutes

and then he walked out from the room.

So, I knew that that my seminar was a disaster.

So, I went to my room and then

literally cried because you are in a

strange country, no friends and what to do?

Then, I continued my efforts

and then looking at and the work done earlier in the institute,

the publications and all that, then I said I am

probably now ready that was about 10 months after I have been there.

Meanwhile the scholarship giver,

German Academic Exchange Service,

they said that your scholarship will be extended only

if your professor says that you can work for Ph.D.,

otherwise you have to go back.

Then, then they said even

for our own German students we cannot say that,

so how can we say that you can work for your Ph.D.

Ok. So, so give another seminar.

So, this time of course, I was well prepared.

I was clear about my topic,

and I practiced and recorded on tape recorder.

Those days we used to have these tape recorders Ok.

Several times I practiced

and then I gave a mock seminar to my

other German students who are doing Ph.D.

and then when the final seminar came,

I took 29 minutes 30 seconds

and professor discussed one and half hours on my topic.

And then they said yes.

Now, you can you can do Ph.D.

I think that was one of the most important

things that happened in my life

because now, then in the process of this 1 year, I learnt

how to be independent and how to be self-motivating

and then how to work and how to present things,

prepare slides, and so many other things I learnt.

Then there is a first you have to also learn practice

because we cant give Ph.D. without practiced well.

So, then they immediately associated me with the

consultancy projects of the professor.

So, I used to go to project sites.

And then write, the professor was also doing international projects.

So the reports have to be written in English

and hardly anybody knew English.

So, it was good that I was writing part of

those reports and giving it to the professor.

Ok.

But then to help my thesis work

there is a system of

part time students helping research scholars.

So, I had a research project funding.

Ok.

And with that funding, I used to get part time research,

part time students to help.

Sometimes I had even as many as 6 students.

is being with the experiments, preparing the samples,

running the experiment and then doing the computer analysis

and all that they used to do.

So, to cut the long story short,

I learnt lot of practical aspects

plus I was able to complete my Ph.D. in 3 years 2 months.

So, that is why that was a record for that institute

because everybody before took

as professor said 5 to 6 years.

So, probably I was the 26th or 26 Ph.D. from that institute.

So, that is how it was.

Ok. And then I returned back to Banaras.

Yeah. After my Ph.D.

During this time Germany must have been totally different

from this Germany that we see now

because you know immediately I mean almost

20 years after the war

ended and then there are lot of you know

the division of a, I mean a Germany two two halfs.

Ok. And Berlin blockade and what not.

I think they were particularly you know

the economic situations were very

bad at that time, but how do you compare

the the which is I mean the the Germany

of that time which what you see at present?

Yes.

You know what happened is that

by the time I went it was 64,

I mean 63 December I went and then

so 64 may I was in the institute.

Then, still lots of things were being rebuild,

lot of Germany was destroyed.

Ok.

For example, when we were attending the

German classes in Goethe Institute,

we were put in private houses.

And most private houses did not didn't have even a bath.

They had only a toilet.

Ok.

But bathing you have to go out to a place and then

pay money for it and then take a bath.

It was like that.

But still I think people were happy

because they were quickly forgetting the trauma of the war.

Yeah, of course.

And then there was a lot of progress,

lot of action, people had work

and they were seeing better days,

month by month, year by year, things were getting better.

So, you see human nature is that is all relative

which you are already very prosperous

then you want more prosperity, but if you are having less

than even a little more will make a greater.

So, that way I did not notice that.

Yeah. But

what I also noticed is that once

they are become they become friendly they are very friendly.

Initially, there was a distance,

but later when you are humble and then when you

go and talk to them and interact with them and then

then they will they they were very very good.

So, there were any other Indian students

during that time when you were there?

In the in the in the entire university

if I am not mistaken,

people who were doing Ph.D. there were 2 more students Indians.

I see. So, 3 of us used to meet

and there were couple of undergraduate students,

but we did not have much contact with them.

So, it was a very very that; actually

very interesting, Karlsruhe the population of 250,000.

Ok.

And when my wife joined me in 1965

and she used to move with her saree.

She was the only lady

in the whole of Karlsruhe, an Indian lady

moving around you know in a saree and then

people used to stare at her, even this tram drivers would

you know look at stop and look at it something like that.

The local newspaper wrote an article about her and because

then she started helping in a in

nursery or kindergarten that was the situation.

Ok.

But slowly slowly many people have come

and of course, now everywhere full of people.

So, then you back in BHU how long did you

work before coming into IIT Madras?

I I extent BHU in in 2006, 67

June, and then I was given an

indication that I will be made a reader

immediate after my Ph.D. because probably in those days

I was one of the very few people with the Ph.D. in the.

Ok.

Department of Engineering in BHU.

But for some reason, some getting delay

and I was selected as a reader in

Regional Engineering College Allahabad,

but then the director of the institute would say

no, no, no, you don't go to Allahabad,

we will make you reader here itself,

and all that used to say, but sill things were not happening.

Then, someone told me

that there is an advertisement from IIT Madras.

Ok.

For faculty position.

So, then I said why not I apply.

But actually that advertisement was only for the professor,

but anyway still I applied and then

Dr. A. Ramachandran was the director.

Ok.

So, then the interview also went off very well.

And then I was leaving the room,

Dr. Ramachandran called me back

and he said Dr. Raju how is it that you are still a lecturer, he asked me.

So, I didn't know what to say.

So, I didn't say anything I think I.

So, anyway then I got appointment letter.

Ok. And then I joined IIT Madras.

Ok.

That is how.

Ok.

Probably that was a time when you know there were

large number of German professors.

Yes, yes. Then also the laboratory,

you have all those I mean our lab majority employees.

So, the senior technicians of a Germany very long.

Yes.

because you know almost you know

the conditions in the German city has been

recreated in IIT Madras perhaps because of large number of countries.

Well actually.

Yeah, actually it was a a great change from

Banaras Hindu University to IIT Madras.

Banaras Hindu University also has got a beautiful campus

some 1100 or 1400 acre campus very green,

but Madras was more focused

and then the department also was small.

And then there were not many professors

and and also most of the people were working for their Ph.D.

Ok. Is still working.

But they were doing all the work of

you know building classrooms and establishing laboratories

and you know they did lot of work.

Ok.

So, I was received with some sort of a skepticism because

many were there before me who were

aspiring to become a assistant professor,

but they could not become because they don't have a Ph.D.

and then Ph.D. was getting delayed.

So, they, so they did not say so, so much openly,

but I could see that there was a certain amount of

you know reluctance to welcome me there.

But anyway then I was

fortunate to be able to interact with them

and then also help them with their Ph.D. work to some extent.

And then there was an opportunity do do consulting projects.

Professor Verghese was the head of the department.

So you, okay.

Yeah, I when I came.

Then there was no aid to

solid mechanics in those days, it was only for structures and hydraulics.

2 German staff were there in there

and then this project called fertilizer plant at Tuticorin

and there was a very there was a naughty issue to be sorted off.

So, professor Varghese asked me to handle that

and we successfully did that.

So, that gave more rapo with head of the

department and Indian department.

Ok.

And of course, I maintain contact with the German faculty because

I really liked Germany.

So, Germany it is like a second home for me even today.

So, we had very very good time, excellent friends

and learnt a lot, and

lot of changes had happened

in Germany on the positive side.

Ok.

So, at the among the whole I think it was really

very good and then along with the

activities in the department our consultancy was picking up very well.

Ok.

There was a major initiative with L&T,

L&T did not have a geotechnical engineer in that office

in those days, foundational engineer,

so, I used to go and sit half a day

in their office, but in a week.

So, like that things were getting multiplied in an appropriate.

Sir, institute are with so many German

professors here, do you see a lot of comparison between a

Technical University in Germany and IIT Madras?

Because I think there is some sort of a

you know similarity between the two, a TU and IIT Madras. Ok.

My my understanding is that

mostly the German faculty, the professors,

even though we gave them call them professors senior people,

they were more focused on developing the facilities,

building the laboratories and less of teaching.

Ok. Where as most of the teaching was done by the Indian faculty.

I am not sure whether German faculty took any regular lectures

you got an structure and then maybe there was a

one such. Professor Prem.

Alright. Professor Prem used to take classes.

That's how. That will ok.

But they were not already professors in here.

They became professors subsequently.

Professor Rouvé was in hydraulics,

later he became a professor in Aachen.

Ok.

As a full professor, chair professor.

So, that way it was very good.

And then it was also wonderful experience with Dr. A. Ramachandran.

A very outstanding director.

In 1973, I was the secretary JEE,

all India and at that time you were the

whatever it is called coordinating institute or the

Ok. main institute conducting this.

So, I used to go to him.

I would smilingly and very promptly

simply write on every paper which you take to him SAR.

You would give sir.

So, so so prompt.

It was such a pleasure.

It was really very good timing and it.

Ok.

But I think starting in Civil Engineering Department

I think within a very short time

you had a good name as a good teacher.

Yeah.

And very good consultant

and also a research, a good researcher,

help, trying to help those who are doing their Ph.D. at that time.

So, after establishing yourself as a very

senior consultant and also a good senior faculty.

Yes.

Shift to Ocean Engineering must have been a little,

I don't know how did, how did you change their decision to move on?

No, actually what was happening is that

is Civil Engineering of course, the consulting is also a team work,

everything is a everything is a team work.

We used to work in teams.

And then what happened is that

there was an opening or an interview for a

professor in the Ocean Engineering Centre.

So, the Ocean Engineering Centre was

established at one of the advanced centres.

Yes.

And each IIT got one centre and so IIT Madras got ocean engineering.

And they were not getting people with expertise an ocean engineering

because the ocean engineering was not

globally also not a well-developed subject.

It was just picking up.

So, when the interview was there then I went for the interview there

and then they offered me the professorship there.

Ok.

Then, they also said that this

is a challenge you have to build a new institution

and Professor Mithra from IIT.

Kharagpur.

Kharagpur was there in charge of the Ocean Engineering Centre.

So, but he was already retired.

Ok.

So, then I was joining as next person to him.

So, I I thought that this is a good opportunity to

extend into a new area because

foundational engineering, geotechnical engineering

also you have to deal with coastal and offshore foundations.

Correct, yeah. So, I

I took a decision to take that offer

because I didn't have the offer for the

professorship in civil engineering yet.

Ok.

Probably, it would have come after a year or 2, but anyway.

So, I went there

and then by then Professor Indiresan has come as a director.

Oh yes yes.

So, that is how an ocean engineering he supported that very well.

Then, he visited the Ocean Engineering Centre,

we had some faculty, not many.

Ok.

And, but after the meeting was over,

after he interacted with that

for some reason he looked at me I was not the head.

He told me Professor Raju you please send

me a minutes of this meeting.

I was surprised because you did not ask the

head of the department, he is asking me.

Then, I consulted the head of the department

and then I told him he said, yes, yes please prepare and I

prepared the minutes and showed to him,

and then sent it to Professor Indiresan.

And Professor Mithra retired.

Ok.

Then Professor professor Indiresan asked me

to take over at the head of the Ocean Engineering he said.

Then, we want looking looking some more people

and realize that we should take people

who are already very good in their respective fields

and ask them to reorient themselves to ocean engineering.

That how we did you know, you are a part of that.

One of the probably legendary projects was because

immediately after you came in and also with intension

taking lot of interest in those people who have,

I think you could invent the DST to support a huge project on wave energy.

Yes, yes.

I think it has logical conclusion

of establishing or installing a wave energy caisson off Trivandrum.

Right, right.

Can you can you elaborate on that I think

audience will be very very happy to listen to it because its a it is

you are one of the very successful projects had been.

Yeah.

See, what happened is

we were doing simultaneously building up the Ocean Engineering Centre,

doing the wave basin and covering the wave basin.

And then you know for example, this I want to mention before

going to wave energy project

this is very interesting, then then you know

the normal way of covering a basin of that size in those days was

to put a steel truss with AC sheeting.

Correct.

And then I felt that as a technological institute

we should do something different.

Then our good friend A. Ramakrishna

who was at the time in L&T, ECC.

I talked to him.

He said we should put a

folded plate roof concrete roof

that is it is made to span,

cost on the ground, lifted, and placed in position.

And, but that was not done in the country before.

Ok.

So, we are going to do it for the first time.

Then, I went to Professor Indiresan and said

this is the situation this has not been done before,

but he said are you confident of doing it.

I said yes.

Then, he said immediately please go ahead.

So, then we did that and I think it has come out quite well.

So, that was one instant.

Professor Indiresan also said we are also trying,

so you have to focus on some areas you cannot do everything.

Then, I then I said those days ocean energy was the fashion.

Yeah.

So, people were talking of OTEC,

then that is the ocean thermal energy,

wave energy and tidal energy. Tidal energy,

yeah.

Tidal energy was already quite advanced,

that there were already a plant in France, tidal energy plant.

Then, actually Professor Indiresan used to participate in

Saturday meetings where we had invited different

people from different departments

and we talk used to talk about OTEC and the wave energy.

At the same time the department of ocean development

was started in Government of India.

Yes.

There was also a Department of Non-Conventional Energy

in the ministry already that was before the Ocean Energy Department.

And they sponsored a project for,

but discussion then things like that.

And later ocean development came.

And then we said that we should do something substantial.

Then I was also on the sort of a Ocean Commission,

I was also a member of the Ocean Commission

and also there was a National Institute of Oceanography,

I was also member there on the governing,

I think research council they used to call it.

Ok.

Then we made a proposal for this wave energy

project, then we certainly do a pilot plants.

The best way of conditions,

relatively best way of conditions were available

of the course of Trivandrum, Kovalam.

So we proposed that.

And then they sanctioned that.

So, that is how that project started and then

many people joined, then Ravindran joined as

PSO, Principal Scientific Officer.

I don't remember when he actually joined, but he also.

So, that is how the project started.

And that was also a great experience.

He wanted to build a huge caisson and how to build this and

nobody has done it before,

not only in India anywhere in the world.

There again Mr. Ramakrishna

from L&T, he came forward.

And then our accounts people

they said how can you give the job without without

quotations and there is only single person. Yeah.

Then, I said ok, let us go to site.

So, I took the our accounts people to

Vizhinjam or Kovalam.

Yeah.

And showed him the place and said here we have to

build a something like

how many storage structure, I not exactly remember now,

but huge scale you have to pay you tell me how we can get.

Nobody is prepared to do it.

Even one person we had to persuade.

Ok.

And so they appreciated that.

In fact, they immediately said yes sir.

This is the way we should do it

and then and all of you work very hard.

So, then the project will.

Sir, Professor, Professor Indiresan and

we had a very sort of very close relation.

Yes.

That has definitely resulted in many,

not only projects, but also

for example this building itself.

Yeah, yes. Building that we are sitting

is again you know.

Yeah, actually actually this this

being this ICSR building came much later,

not during Professor Indiresan’s time.

Ok oh I see.

Yeah ok.

And then in Professor Indiresan time

many things happened.

It was very interesting how I think

he was so proactive, so supportive

and probably I think in some way we were the same on the same page.

For example, he made me chairman incident works.

Yes.

So, I wanted to see the entire campus

of course, that anyway we were doing walking.

But I wanted to walk all along the boundary of the

campus to see the boundary all, what is the condition, and then some

people were making holes in the boundary wall and then

trespassing and all that.

So, on Sunday along with

my wife I told her let us walk along the boundary

and suddenly I find Professor Indiresan

and Mrs. Indiresan doing the same thing.

So, we really met at that time.

Ok.

So, that is one thing.

And then the second instance is the SAC building,

the student activity centre.

Ok.

That was being during his time.

That was a silver jubilee occasion and the government gave

extra grants for the student activity centre.

So, next day was the inauguration,

president of India was inaugurating to him.

So, sometime around 9 O’clock

or 9:30 in the evening,

earlier we have seen all the arrangements.

So, I felt that I should see

whether everything is ok now or what is really happening

I reached there at 9:30.

Promptly I find Professor Indiresan and Mrs. Indiresan there.

So, they he was also trying to instruct them.

That every way he was very supportive.

Ok.

And that any paper I take for approval

he would immediately sign

without even reading anything looking at it.

Ok.

So, I asked him sir one day

how are you just approving it even without

reading what I have written.

Sir, there is no need because I know that

you will not ask anything unreasonable.

So, what you are asking.

So, that is. That is a confidence,

that is a confidence he had in you.

He was extremely supportive

and that's how I learned that you have to be very supportive,

later your colleagues,

you have to trust them and you have to empower them.

That is correct.

I think it helped me a lot after subsequent years.

Then, student activity centre was actually planned

subsequently and I think it was

Professor L. N. Ramamurthy’s time when he was the dean,

some planning was done.

Ok.

But then I think Professor Radhakrishna

of Mechanical Engineering also was there I think,

then then I took over as dean.

Ok.

And this was still under construction.

So, we used to visit and then made some changes

and then some developments and all that.

Professor professor Aravindan checked all the designs for that the building.

So, there was a great tradition in IIT Madras,

all of faculty would used to get involved

with a campus development and checking designs and all that.

So, that way it was very good, very.

Then the then I moved in into the

first time into the ICSR building.

Coming back to ocean engineering, I think

we had two phases of German assistance.

I think this has also been you know

during your time you know both these

assistance programmes were planned.

Yeah.

And of course, Professor Indiresan was very very supportive.

I think many in the campus perhaps

were not very happy that ocean engineering is

you know getting a lot of disability and also

a development of funds, whether it is

you know Government of India funds

or the the the assistance from Germany.

How were you able to manage the German assistance.

Actually. In fact, of all the problems.

Actually what happened was that

you know whenever these

Germans used to come

and especially from the German agency for development,

they used to visit different places

and I think they also visited ocean engineering

and I used to interact with them.

Yeah.

So, I told them that this is a new area

and Germany is also developing in this area

and we should get assistance from Germany,

but then they said that the programme of assistance is closed.

At that time they were only doing exchange of faculty.

So, some some faculty members were selected

you know to go to Germany and then

for 2 months, 3 months like that.

But then finally, they I have I convinced them

there is is you know just because

you have some time limitations you know that

Ocean Engineering Centre should not be denied

getting assistance because without that it would be very difficult.

So, because you know random wave

and wave generators for the basin and

all that it would have been very difficult for us.

And then they agreed and then they sent

a German professor from Berlin to visit us.

He came and the he gave a report he supported it

and then then finally, they agreed to fund this project hereby.

So, I think that was a very useful inputs that we got from there

and I think as far as

I know probably subsequently NSTL must have built some of

these random wave facilities and all that,

but at that time probably we were the only institute.

So, these are the.

In fact, even in Germany they were

not having a similar facility.

No. So, that was the magnanimity

of the German assistance.

That was the way we were successful.

And I think Professor Indiresan also strongly supported that.

During his period only we got the assistance.

Sir, during your time as dean, ICSR you know

I think the PIs,

coordinators were actually liberated from lot of gangly (incoherent) holes.

Yes.

The in front of the work.

Yes, yes.

I think lot of changes where have been brought in

and as you used to say that the manager should be

that should not be a power centre.

Should be a service centre.

I think that type of a culture you should

probably instill in some of the offices here.

Yes.

That was a great change.

How do you bring about, one was that

visited Trivandrum is one thing that has changed their attitude,

but you know new things which from here itself you could change.

See, when I joined IIT Madras

and that was in 1970,

then ICSR was not yet started at that time.

I think it came later, couple of years later 73 or so.

Then you know if you get a project sponsor project,

if if you want to take a scientific officer or a someone into the project,

the registrar told me that it will take an year,

the process, because we have to advertise

in the papers and then you know whatever.

It's a very long.

You know I was shocked. How can you

wait for an year to start a project.

So, anyway, then ICSR started and then they were

slowly improving the processes and then,

but still there was

it was taking some time, couple of months to recruit.

And I said what is there in recruiting a project officer.

Finally, it should be the choice of the principal investigate, PI.

So, I made a proposal these an ICSR committee, I made a proposal

that we will have a standing committee

for recruitment of the project officer,

so which will meet every Friday and Saturday.

And when in this standing committee then of course,

the PI will be also a member

and the consult head of the department may be

somebody could be a member.

So, we will give the and then

this is sort of like a walk in interview sort of a thing.

Even without advertisement people can apply or whatever they.

Ok. And then

every week we will have this standing committee meeting.

So, therefore, if somebody finds a person on a Monday,

by Saturday the appointment letter would be given

or even Friday,

Saturday appointment letter would be given

because it is only the matter of just.

Only only condition is that was he should not

be related to you and you should be qualified.

You should have minimum qualifications.

That was acceptant.

I think I should say also Professor N. V. C. Swamy

who was the director at that time

he also supported us to have this processes.

And then people were

happy and they said we will trust people,

some people may misuse, but that trust, but doesn't matter.

So, but that is better to trust.

But I must say that that time when I took over

our consulting value was about a crore

in those days, now it must be 100 crores or whatever it is.

In 5 years in it it increased by 5 times.

So, 1 crore became 5 crores in 5 years

that is a phenomenal growth.

Then, sponsor research also grew maybe

3 times or something like that.

I don't remember the figure.

And also that was a very nice experience. We had good people.

And I think it worked well.

It worked well. It worked well.

You had a very you know enormous influence

of lot of youngsters ofcourse

I am also one of them.

Many many people you know you

mentored up later on you know they are

grown in in in various areas and

how did you inculcate this culture or

supporting and trusting people like

you have a goal and you know you mentor people,

so that you know we can reach

the goal.

That that is set for yourself.

You know what I learnt from my

team my superiors or

people who mentored me was that most

important thing is trust.

And trust in empowerment,

you have to trust then you have to empower people

and that's what we did and it worked very well.

So, so therefore, I what I learnt

from my mentors, I just passed it down.

And so I already gave you the examples of Dr. A Ramachandran

and Professor Indiresan and

you know what they taught us how to go about it.

So, therefore, it was quite easy and then

then they grew afterwards by their own merit of course

and by the ofcourse, team work.

Team work are also very important.

You know you remember when we did all these

in both consulting projects and then

sponsored projects we were such big teams.

Ok. I remember that

when we were doing consulting then

doing the instrumentation part you did the instrumented,

one jetty in Paradip

I remember that very path breaking studies.

Yes. And Aravindan and

Meher Prasad and you know Velu, Gandhi.

So, this is why it was such a wonderful thing and also

number of project officers, I remember I think

maximum number we had only about 12 or so in those days.

Ok. It's all

it I think it's all teamwork and the

merit of the people by themselves.

Most people are really good.

Even today I am seeing it. Youngsters

you put them in the right place and then tell them how to go about

and then encourage them, they will learn very fast.

So, we have lot of talent in this country.

But yesterday night I was

thinking about this Paradip Port project that we have done.

Yes.

Even today I can't believe a load cell which has been put

in the soil for several months.

Yes.

Worked very well after you know we dug up everything and then

again did the measurements.

Oh really.

I did the, in fact, the load cell were designed by us,

everything was done by us.

Yes of course.

And it it it I think we went there after the

dredging was over and then about 6 months,

it took almost 6 months,

Velu and myself went and. Yes.

Our heart was beating very fast to find out

you know whether it is going to work or not because otherwise

6 months effort has already lost.

Sure, sure.

those working so well.

You should get, yeah

it has it could get exactly the type of

predicted load that was coming onto the drivers;

is it is it is a wonderful experience.

And these are all you know

many people are not even attempted to do such

such work anywhere in the world perhaps

that is why it has become an ISD publication.

Right.

See, it is a first of all

recognizing that there is a need to;

first of all recognizing that that particular system will

work in a particular way

that was the one part.

Then afterwards you have some

youngsters I think do do is

structural analysis or whatever analysis

appropriate analysis to prove it through analysis.

But finally, to prove it through measurements,

so several roads.

So, initial identification maybe I I could see is the the concept.

Then analysis was I think done by Sundaravalli Velu, this

structural analysis and then you pioneer at the

instrumentation part and did that that is

and that is how it should be.

It's always team work.

Sir, a few words about NIOT because that is again

you had a major role in bringing NIOT to

Chennai to IIT Madras and it has so it has brought

much more perhaps that.

Budget of NIOT is at least 2 to 3

times not that that was all. Right.

What was your?

Yeah.

See, it was like this that I was on the Ocean

Commission as a member

and Professor P. Rama Rao became secretary DST

as well as the secretary of DOD ocean development.

And we used to discuss

in various meetings and all that,

and then during the discussions it came on saying that

ocean development, Department of Ocean Development

needs an institution of of its own funded by them.

Much beyond the Ocean Engineering Centre.

Ocean Engineering Centre was of course,

doing this wave energy project and all that.

Correct, correct.

So, then then academic was decided to start NIOT

and I told Professor Rama Rao they desperate to start

NIOT is to locate it on campus

and I was I was also a dean ICSR.

So, we said we will put one extra floor.

Ok.

On the ICSR building

and you please pay for that that that floor

and then he immediately accepted it

and Professor Swamy also accepted the proposal.

And that is how NIOT started in our campus.

And then, then naturally they grew

to a particular size that this space was no more adequate.

Ok.

Then they moved out and they found land and

then of course, Ravindran has taken it

forward as a director of NIOT.

So, that is how.

So, that that was a good move.

Then such experiences like would replicate

later more effectively in Delhi.

Ok.

That of co-locating the facilities with an institution.

In fact, that is my next question.

From IIT Madras after you know

you went as director of IIT Delhi.

Yes.

And you had a full term there.

Of course, definitely when somebody goes

from one institute to another institute,

best practices of the previous institute will be

I will try to replicate in in the new institute because through this.

Yes.

An established institute of the. How did the faculty of IIT Delhi.

Yeah.

Receive the the changes that you try to bring about

or the best practices that you have you know

from Madras, IIT Madras you you try to

implement it with an IIT Delhi.

What was the type of reaction from

you tackled the students as well as the staffs?

You know first I would say that

I would I would never thought that I would

go to actually Delhi I mean to lecture.

This is not in my thinking or whatever it was.

At that, by the time I was

selected at IIT Delhi I I was dean ICSR

and STS as dean I used to appreciate when.

Yeah.

director was out of station.

So, then I think when I was invited,

those days you cannot apply for a directorship.

Today I think people can apply.

Then anyways, nominations were there, I think

I don't know who all nominated, but definitely Professor Indiresan

through his channels he he

he nominated me and then

then invited for an interview and of course,

there it went very well, the interview went very well.

Then, I received this invitation to at IIT Delhi.

Then, after going there obviously,

you have all the experiences at IIT Madras of

working in the Civil Engineering Department,

Ocean Engineering Centre,

chairman, Estate and Works, which I did and then dean ICSR.

So, all these things were practically you know. Then

first thing I started was to visit all the departments

and then and centres and meet all of them.

Systematically, first meet the faculty, then meet

the staff, and meet the research students

and go around the labs and see what is.

Then go around the hostels because

that was my hobby to walk,

so I used to, I have seen every nook and corner of the campus.

Then quickly realized that

there is a backlog of faculty selections.

And so simple things, then then we immediately

went through the process of faculty selections.

You know generally nowadays maybe

things have changed, but in those days

you call all the faculty, interviews will run from morning to evening,

say 9 O’clock to evening 5 O’clock or 6 O’clock, they won't tell

when your turn will come.

So, people are just waiting from 9 to 6, some of them.

As I I I just thought about it and then said

why not we give them a time slot.

So, everybody was given a time slot of 15-20 minutes.

So, they exactly know when they are

required to be there, otherwise.

Such small things made a huge impact

going to the department and talking

with the faculty in detail and asking

in the with youngsters and hearing patiently what they have to say.

You know every semester I registered every department and centre

and centre facilities,

because you know that what

and how to get rid of obsolete equipment

because at least when I went there

and we may be true with most institutions even today

and everywhere we find lot of obsolete

equipment occupying space.

So, then I said why is it lying here

and then this administration will say that

you cant write off easily, there is a big

procedures for that and all that.

Then, I said I want a very quick coalition and finally,

I told the engineering unit

they used to have cement godowns,

I said why is this godown here such a huge godown.

No sir, we supply cement because

they may not bring quality cement.

I said forget about it.

Now, there is enough quality cement available in the market.

Maybe in olden days it was different.

So, I emptied the cement godown

and said shift everything which is

not functional into the godown.

Ok, ok.

So, 30 percent of the space

which was occupied by obsolete equipment were became free.

So, suddenly imagine that you we have so much

space which is unutilized becomes useful.

So, all those things made people happy

and they cooperated very well.

There are so many issues that will crop up,

we have to think out of the box.

Ok. So, for example, the campus was not green enough

compared to Madras campus.

So, then I told them my board in first meeting

we will plant a 1000 trees every year

on the Delhi campus.

Earlier were doing maybe 100 trees a year.

And then main the board members plant trees,

started with them with the chairman of the board.

And a small committee and

told them I want your help,

we need to plant 1000 trees.

So, they planted 2200 trees in the first year.

So, then it became the norm, 2200 is the norm.

So, 5 years I think they planted about

11000 trees or something like that.

Same thing you know with bathrooms, hostels,

if you go to the kitchen you will find

that tube lights are not working,

fan is not working, exhaust fan is not there, it's all

you know, then with a vengeance you get all those

things renovated and things like that.

So, that will win a lot of friends

because people who are working in the kitchen they are happy

then then once they are happy,

they treat the students well, they cook better.

So, like that and then construction because we said

we had 2400 students

when I went in 1995 and 2200 employees

20 acres of land,

so un utilization.

So, I told them that we should

aim to double the student strength

in my period of 5 years.

So, then you need more hostel rooms.

So, I asked the engineering unit how are you building.

So, they said that building 50 rooms,

so of course, for the government hostel

for the last 2 and half years.

I said that is too slow.

We need something different.

Then, we have planned bigger hostels and then

got the bigger builders and finally,

with our friends help got L&T to do hostels.

And they build very fast.

We were building them you know.

Sometimes one has to look at the minor things,

using my experience you know

in addition to this planting saplings and trees

I used to find the cattle on campus.

Late nights, not during the day.

See, what the neighboring villages were doing,

they will connive with the security

and though we have cattle traps

in the night they will put a plank on that

and drive the cattle.

And take them away in the morning.

So, I used to come sometimes

from the late flights to the campus and see the cattle there.

So, then I told the security officer, this is very

serious and I don't want to see any cattle on campus.

Then that made a huge difference because

without cattle all the plants started growing themselves.

Ok.

That was one important thing.

The same thing also was with the toilets,

that they were not in a proper condition and then.

So, I I literally took

the institute engineer with me and then I said if

they are not fixed within the next 2 weeks,

so I will start cleaning them and then

you may not have any option to join me in doing so.

So, that worked and then they improved.

But again they go back.

So, in there were in many ways academically

also recruiting faculty in you know,

and some of the innovations we did was that

new faculty were informed immediately

after the selection, after the interview itself.

Ok.

See earlier people will be waiting

and sitting in the admissions office to find out

have I got selected, am I promoted and all that.

I told the heads of the departments

at the end of the day itself you just

call them and tell them that they are already selected

and that made a difference

because then they are not,

then they are happy and they are join you and similarly with

people who are promoted also

without waiting for the registrar to send formal letters,

I used to send letters to them,

congratulation letters saying that

I am happy to inform you and that you are being elevated.

So, and so and then the formal letter will found.

So, all those small small things I think

motivated people well.

Sir, this is my last question.

Yeah. Looking back,

what do you think is your most unique

contribution to IIT Madras?

I know it will be very difficult because

large number of contributions

that you gave to research ofcourse,

what do you think is the most unique,

a single contribution to IIT?

You mean to say that the most

most important thing in my view?

In your view, yes.

What I what what I feel is that

I mean on the whole being open minded

and yeah they said already

mutual trust and common good and such things,

they were helped.

Certainly, I think Ocean Engineering Centre

is certainly a very good

you know example of creating a great facility.

Probably, one of the best of its kind in this part of the world,

that is one one one contribution.

And I think also

the number of colleagues who have really

done well and reach in

to higher levels and then to higher contributions.

So, I would say human resource I will put first;

you know what we have been able to create.

Then, establishing the facilities,

than building you know that create you know,

even I feel that what we have achieved together

and the consultancy friends and

sponsor research fund also is quite substantial.

Nothing when the wave project,

wave energy project was given

probably at that time that was the biggest projects.

Sir, in conclusion would you like to

because this will be viewed by many people.

Yes.

This is a part of an audio book

on IIT Madras that was published by Heritage Centre.

Yeah.

Do you have any concluding remarks to make?

I think I have already said that thing in the previous,

last point I think what I said and I think.

what I I have I have experienced is

that human tendencies to think

that what we got is taken for granted

and what we did not get looks very big.

Ok.

You know and then we always expect things to

happen faster than what they happen.

But I think the wisdom lies in

accepting things as they are and then

trying to improve and

focus on teamwork and then mutual mutual benefits,

and and the common good as I said already.

And also finally, at the good of the nation,

I mean that should be uppermost in our mind.

Sir, one one thing which I did not

ask you it's about a about your 3 children.

Yes.

I think you should tell something about them.

Ok. Yeah.

Actually, it made a great difference for

them to grow up in the campus.

Really, I think

you know, one of the important

things for us as seniors is to get faculty.

So, I used to tell the people

if you join as the faculty you have

all the freedom, number one.

And your children will get good education

and carrier and which are both

you know very important.

Ok.

So, that way we were fortunate that

we have 3 children, son and 2 daughters.

Son and elder daughter both did undergraduate

IIT Madras which is quite thing

and this the younger one did masters in Mathematics at IIT

and all of them are doing well.

So, I think definitely the campus education in the

campus living has made a

significant contribution for their for their growth.

And also, the impact the value systems

that we follow in the campus.

And I think it has been a great experience.

So, I can't think of a better place for children to grow.

Yeah, yes, yes

A campus like IIT Madras.

Thank you very much sir.

I think.

Thank you thank you Chandy.

Time we give together.

Yeah, it's it is so so nice that after a long time

we are sitting and then talking.

Yeah, we will continue to keep in touch.

Yeah, sure.

Thank you and all the best to you and your family.

Thank you. Thank you and bye.

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