Prof. V.S. Raju in conversation with Prof. V.G. Idichandy (Video Conference)
I was born in rural Andhra Pradesh in a very small village
and where we had only a primary school
and went to high school in the neighbouring village.
And those days you know
even to have a pair of chappals are the luxury.
Correct.
So, I tell my grandchildren that
I got my first chappals at the age of 8
and probably that was the most happiest
time, one of the most happy times of my life.
I used to a very proud with walking with those chappals.
Then, I did intermediate in the neighbouring town,
about 5 kilometers or so from our village.
So, first year intermediate I used to cycle there and
second year stayed in a rented room.
And after intermediate,
I was not qualified immediately to join engineering
because of the minimum age criteria they had.
In those days, you should have a minimum age to join
and then I was I think when I finished my
intermediate, I was only a 14, so very young.
So, then fortunately, what happen is that
Andhra University College of Engineering,
that we are only the relaxed age.
So, it was informed to me by one of my seniors
that there is an age relaxation and
I immediately applied and got admission
into College of Engineering Andhra University.
This is in Vizag?
College of Engineering Andhra University.
This is in Vizag or where is it?
It is in Vizag, it is in Vizag, it is in Vizag. Alright,
Ok, sir.
Then, my father who was a farmer,
who got educated only up to class 5,
his dream was that his son should pass high school.
So, that was his dream he could not think higher than that.
So, he put in lot of effort
in motivating me to study well in school.
For example, he used to wake me up at 4 in the morning
and with a kerosene lamp
you know it's all dark around and you are afraid,
so he used to sit next to me
and so that I can study without fear.
Ok.
So, that training
helped me to focus on studies and then it became very easy.
So, I was privileged to top my school in high,
for high school and then
then go for intermediate and then get admission to
College of Engineering Andhra University.
And then after his bachelor, my father being a farmer,
for them a irrigation supervisor, our overseer, is a big man.
Ok.
So, he was very keen that I should join the Irrigation Department.
Government. The government.
And I got an offer also
to join the Irrigation Department.
But I met one Colonel, Military Engineering Services,
who is introduced, who was introduced to me through somebody,
then when he saw my academic record
he said joining MBA or
government department is not for you.
Your academic background is very good, so you should go for a master's.
So, my father was not in agreement with that
because he and he also said he cannot support me,
with Master’s degree that would be difficult.
But then I said there are some scholarships available.
Ok.
So, anyway finally, I convinced him and
went to Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore
Yeah.
for my master's.
Then you know that time there were 3 different programmes
in structural engineering, in hydraulics and in
geotechnical or not, those days we used to call it soil mechanics.
The soil mechanics programme was to 9 months plus
6 months of practical training.
Ok.
Whereas, the other programs were 1 and a half
years plus 6 months of practical training.
So, because this is a shorter program,
Ok. So I chose soil mechanics.
Ok. And then,
but unfortunately the criterion they adopted
for scholarships was also the mean.
So, in the interview when one of the faculty
member asked me what did your father does,
If I told him in agriculture and then we own 10 acres of land I told him.
So, then he said 10 acres is a lot of land.
So, that means, you are a rich farmer.
Your father is a rich farmer.
Ok.
So, that he did'nt give me the scholarship,
so that was very hard.
Then afterwards I met the head of the department and explained to him.
Then he was very kind and then he found some
40 rupees per month scholarship
instead of 150 rupees that was a.
Ok. Anyway somehow I managed
and a friend of mine
who was on leave from Banaras Hindu University
to study the master's attaining a degrees of science,
he told me that there is a faculty position vacant,
lecturer’s position vacant in Banaras Collage.
So, I applied and then got an interview
and then afterwards got selected as lecturer.
Ok.
So, that is how I started my teaching career
at Banaras Hindu University.
And then because I finished school early by jumping classes
then I was only 19 plus when I started as a lecturer.
Yeah.
So, that was a scary experience
because I was asked to teach final year classes.
Ok.
And among the students were older than me.
So, in the class.
And then, they used to make fun of me
when I turn to the board to write,
then we had a very well-known picture
starred by Raj Kapoor in those days
and there is a very famous song, Raju mera naam.
Ok. So, they sing that song.
So, that is how I started my academic career.
Maybe I will stop here, maybe you have some
something to ask about what I have said.
Ok sir.
Sir, ok
BHU was your first teaching assignment.
Yes.
Then, you went for doctorate programme to Germany.
Yes.
As you did it in Karlsruhe the University, University of Karlsruhe you know.
Yeah, that's correct.
Ok.
Why why did you choose Germany?
Because.
Yes.
Probably that was the time U.S.
education must you know many people
you know went to U.S. ,
I think probably in your contemporary age, but why why Germany?
Yes, yes. So, is there your some
special motivation for selecting?
See, while at Banaras I saw an advertisement
in the papers about the German Government Scholarships.
Ok.
So, I said why not I apply?
I didn't know much about Germany in those days.
Ok.
But anyway I thought that
the fact that they are offering scholarships for Indian students,
so it must be interesting.
And then you know what is another interesting fact is that
I just thought that what will they ask me in the interview?
I felt that because this scholarships were open
I thought that what will they ask me,
then I felt that they will definitely ask me why I want to go to Germany.
Just like you asked why I went to Germany.
Then I was looking for an explanation for this question
and then I was looking for literature to to identify a professor
in Germany with whom I want to go on.
Then, those days Germans were not publishing in English journals,
but with great difficulty I found
the one article by a professor by name Schrute,
he is from University of Aachen.
Ok.
So, when I went for the interview
promptly they asked me why do you want to go to Germany?
So, then I said I want to work with Professor
Schrute in University of Aachen.
I could see in the face of the people especially in the German
person who was sitting there he was so happy
because he didn't expect me to know
the name of the professor and the place I want to go.
Ok.
Then, I already knew that I am
going to be selected because
from the response because they cant ask technical questions,
because there are 25 scholarships for all branches,
including science, arts, engineering, medicine, everything like that.
Ok.
So, that was an experience.
So, I got selected.
So, then I just went.
And we are all taken by a ship in those days you know.
Yes. We went from Bombay to Marseille and then from Marseille in France.
Ok.
We were driven by bus that to your place,
the way be attended as German language course.
Ok.
4 months.
That was very interesting.
So, then, so you learn German
and its a very intensive training.
So, the nobody these teachers won't speak to you in English at all,
even though they know English.
So, they make you.
So, after 4 months even though I wanted to,
I suggested, I said I want to go to Aachen, University of Aachen.
Because another person from CSR was already selected for Aachen.
Ok.
They sent me to Karlsruhe.
Ok.
Which started out because Karlsruhe Institute was bigger,
more activity and the professor was very well known
Professor Loy (Incoherent).
Later he became the German Minister for Science and Technology.
Ok.
Very famous man.
And of course, he was also the
a director or the president of the university
and he was also president of the directors conference and
president of the scientific and advisory committee to the German 216
government and so on and so forth.
He was a member of the CDU or SPD?
No, not at all.
He was very difficult to see him at the first place.
So, I went to the institute and then
the number two person, Professor Glinde,
who was literally running the institute,
he received me and then they showed me a place, a room, my room
and showed me the library and the lab and here you are.
Ok.
So, they won't tell you anything what do you do
or anything like that, you have to signify out.
So, that was a new experience for me because
in India we everybody here guided you know.
Correct that's correct.
Then everybody is busy, nobody is talking to you
and then nobody told me what are the timings.
So, then I figured out myself coming very early
to find out that the first person used to come at 6 in the morning.
Wow.
To the institute, and the last person was
probably leaving the institute by 9 in the evening.
So, those days Germany was in the process of building up
and they were really working very hard.
Actually, the week was 6 and half days a week.
So, including the Sunday mornings
we used to go out.
So, that was very good for me because there was
alot of work being done.
And then quickly to conclude always then
very important thing has happened that
in month or so, I was
allowed to see the professor.
Then, I told him in my broken German that is
saying sir I want to do Ph.D.,
then he said Mr. Raju Ph.D. it will take 6 years here.
And before you can do Ph.D., you must learn the practice of
geotechnical engineering or foundational engineering.
Then, I told him, sir, I am already on leave and have a job
and they will not give me 6 years leave that won't be possible.
Then, he took pity on me and said I will make an exception.
You find a topic for research
and convince me that the topic is worth
doing research for a Ph.D.
So, the entire responsibility was on me.
So, after 4 months, I informed the Indian that I am now
have a topic for research
and then I have written something together, first
in English and then took somebody’s help to translate it to German.
Then, they said professor is too busy to read that.
So you have to give an seminar.
Ok.
So, the seminar was arranged
and I was and that seminar was to be given in German.
So, it was very tough
and I was also not very clear about the topic.
And then I was reading instead of speaking.
Ok.
And the whole thing took one and half hours.
So, at the end of one and half hours the professor stood up and said
Mr. Raju, a seminar is given for 30 minutes
and then he walked out from the room.
So, I knew that that my seminar was a disaster.
So, I went to my room and then
literally cried because you are in a
strange country, no friends and what to do?
Then, I continued my efforts
and then looking at and the work done earlier in the institute,
the publications and all that, then I said I am
probably now ready that was about 10 months after I have been there.
Meanwhile the scholarship giver,
German Academic Exchange Service,
they said that your scholarship will be extended only
if your professor says that you can work for Ph.D.,
otherwise you have to go back.
Then, then they said even
for our own German students we cannot say that,
so how can we say that you can work for your Ph.D.
Ok. So, so give another seminar.
So, this time of course, I was well prepared.
I was clear about my topic,
and I practiced and recorded on tape recorder.
Those days we used to have these tape recorders Ok.
Several times I practiced
and then I gave a mock seminar to my
other German students who are doing Ph.D.
and then when the final seminar came,
I took 29 minutes 30 seconds
and professor discussed one and half hours on my topic.
And then they said yes.
Now, you can you can do Ph.D.
I think that was one of the most important
things that happened in my life
because now, then in the process of this 1 year, I learnt
how to be independent and how to be self-motivating
and then how to work and how to present things,
prepare slides, and so many other things I learnt.
Then there is a first you have to also learn practice
because we cant give Ph.D. without practiced well.
So, then they immediately associated me with the
consultancy projects of the professor.
So, I used to go to project sites.
And then write, the professor was also doing international projects.
So the reports have to be written in English
and hardly anybody knew English.
So, it was good that I was writing part of
those reports and giving it to the professor.
Ok.
But then to help my thesis work
there is a system of
part time students helping research scholars.
So, I had a research project funding.
Ok.
And with that funding, I used to get part time research,
part time students to help.
Sometimes I had even as many as 6 students.
is being with the experiments, preparing the samples,
running the experiment and then doing the computer analysis
and all that they used to do.
So, to cut the long story short,
I learnt lot of practical aspects
plus I was able to complete my Ph.D. in 3 years 2 months.
So, that is why that was a record for that institute
because everybody before took
as professor said 5 to 6 years.
So, probably I was the 26th or 26 Ph.D. from that institute.
So, that is how it was.
Ok. And then I returned back to Banaras.
Yeah. After my Ph.D.
During this time Germany must have been totally different
from this Germany that we see now
because you know immediately I mean almost
20 years after the war
ended and then there are lot of you know
the division of a, I mean a Germany two two halfs.
Ok. And Berlin blockade and what not.
I think they were particularly you know
the economic situations were very
bad at that time, but how do you compare
the the which is I mean the the Germany
of that time which what you see at present?
Yes.
You know what happened is that
by the time I went it was 64,
I mean 63 December I went and then
so 64 may I was in the institute.
Then, still lots of things were being rebuild,
lot of Germany was destroyed.
Ok.
For example, when we were attending the
German classes in Goethe Institute,
we were put in private houses.
And most private houses did not didn't have even a bath.
They had only a toilet.
Ok.
But bathing you have to go out to a place and then
pay money for it and then take a bath.
It was like that.
But still I think people were happy
because they were quickly forgetting the trauma of the war.
Yeah, of course.
And then there was a lot of progress,
lot of action, people had work
and they were seeing better days,
month by month, year by year, things were getting better.
So, you see human nature is that is all relative
which you are already very prosperous
then you want more prosperity, but if you are having less
than even a little more will make a greater.
So, that way I did not notice that.
Yeah. But
what I also noticed is that once
they are become they become friendly they are very friendly.
Initially, there was a distance,
but later when you are humble and then when you
go and talk to them and interact with them and then
then they will they they were very very good.
So, there were any other Indian students
during that time when you were there?
In the in the in the entire university
if I am not mistaken,
people who were doing Ph.D. there were 2 more students Indians.
I see. So, 3 of us used to meet
and there were couple of undergraduate students,
but we did not have much contact with them.
So, it was a very very that; actually
very interesting, Karlsruhe the population of 250,000.
Ok.
And when my wife joined me in 1965
and she used to move with her saree.
She was the only lady
in the whole of Karlsruhe, an Indian lady
moving around you know in a saree and then
people used to stare at her, even this tram drivers would
you know look at stop and look at it something like that.
The local newspaper wrote an article about her and because
then she started helping in a in
nursery or kindergarten that was the situation.
Ok.
But slowly slowly many people have come
and of course, now everywhere full of people.
So, then you back in BHU how long did you
work before coming into IIT Madras?
I I extent BHU in in 2006, 67
June, and then I was given an
indication that I will be made a reader
immediate after my Ph.D. because probably in those days
I was one of the very few people with the Ph.D. in the.
Ok.
Department of Engineering in BHU.
But for some reason, some getting delay
and I was selected as a reader in
Regional Engineering College Allahabad,
but then the director of the institute would say
no, no, no, you don't go to Allahabad,
we will make you reader here itself,
and all that used to say, but sill things were not happening.
Then, someone told me
that there is an advertisement from IIT Madras.
Ok.
For faculty position.
So, then I said why not I apply.
But actually that advertisement was only for the professor,
but anyway still I applied and then
Dr. A. Ramachandran was the director.
Ok.
So, then the interview also went off very well.
And then I was leaving the room,
Dr. Ramachandran called me back
and he said Dr. Raju how is it that you are still a lecturer, he asked me.
So, I didn't know what to say.
So, I didn't say anything I think I.
So, anyway then I got appointment letter.
Ok. And then I joined IIT Madras.
Ok.
That is how.
Ok.
Probably that was a time when you know there were
large number of German professors.
Yes, yes. Then also the laboratory,
you have all those I mean our lab majority employees.
So, the senior technicians of a Germany very long.
Yes.
because you know almost you know
the conditions in the German city has been
recreated in IIT Madras perhaps because of large number of countries.
Well actually.
Yeah, actually it was a a great change from
Banaras Hindu University to IIT Madras.
Banaras Hindu University also has got a beautiful campus
some 1100 or 1400 acre campus very green,
but Madras was more focused
and then the department also was small.
And then there were not many professors
and and also most of the people were working for their Ph.D.
Ok. Is still working.
But they were doing all the work of
you know building classrooms and establishing laboratories
and you know they did lot of work.
Ok.
So, I was received with some sort of a skepticism because
many were there before me who were
aspiring to become a assistant professor,
but they could not become because they don't have a Ph.D.
and then Ph.D. was getting delayed.
So, they, so they did not say so, so much openly,
but I could see that there was a certain amount of
you know reluctance to welcome me there.
But anyway then I was
fortunate to be able to interact with them
and then also help them with their Ph.D. work to some extent.
And then there was an opportunity do do consulting projects.
Professor Verghese was the head of the department.
So you, okay.
Yeah, I when I came.
Then there was no aid to
solid mechanics in those days, it was only for structures and hydraulics.
2 German staff were there in there
and then this project called fertilizer plant at Tuticorin
and there was a very there was a naughty issue to be sorted off.
So, professor Varghese asked me to handle that
and we successfully did that.
So, that gave more rapo with head of the
department and Indian department.
Ok.
And of course, I maintain contact with the German faculty because
I really liked Germany.
So, Germany it is like a second home for me even today.
So, we had very very good time, excellent friends
and learnt a lot, and
lot of changes had happened
in Germany on the positive side.
Ok.
So, at the among the whole I think it was really
very good and then along with the
activities in the department our consultancy was picking up very well.
Ok.
There was a major initiative with L&T,
L&T did not have a geotechnical engineer in that office
in those days, foundational engineer,
so, I used to go and sit half a day
in their office, but in a week.
So, like that things were getting multiplied in an appropriate.
Sir, institute are with so many German
professors here, do you see a lot of comparison between a
Technical University in Germany and IIT Madras?
Because I think there is some sort of a
you know similarity between the two, a TU and IIT Madras. Ok.
My my understanding is that
mostly the German faculty, the professors,
even though we gave them call them professors senior people,
they were more focused on developing the facilities,
building the laboratories and less of teaching.
Ok. Where as most of the teaching was done by the Indian faculty.
I am not sure whether German faculty took any regular lectures
you got an structure and then maybe there was a
one such. Professor Prem.
Alright. Professor Prem used to take classes.
That's how. That will ok.
But they were not already professors in here.
They became professors subsequently.
Professor Rouvé was in hydraulics,
later he became a professor in Aachen.
Ok.
As a full professor, chair professor.
So, that way it was very good.
And then it was also wonderful experience with Dr. A. Ramachandran.
A very outstanding director.
In 1973, I was the secretary JEE,
all India and at that time you were the
whatever it is called coordinating institute or the
Ok. main institute conducting this.
So, I used to go to him.
I would smilingly and very promptly
simply write on every paper which you take to him SAR.
You would give sir.
So, so so prompt.
It was such a pleasure.
It was really very good timing and it.
Ok.
But I think starting in Civil Engineering Department
I think within a very short time
you had a good name as a good teacher.
Yeah.
And very good consultant
and also a research, a good researcher,
help, trying to help those who are doing their Ph.D. at that time.
So, after establishing yourself as a very
senior consultant and also a good senior faculty.
Yes.
Shift to Ocean Engineering must have been a little,
I don't know how did, how did you change their decision to move on?
No, actually what was happening is that
is Civil Engineering of course, the consulting is also a team work,
everything is a everything is a team work.
We used to work in teams.
And then what happened is that
there was an opening or an interview for a
professor in the Ocean Engineering Centre.
So, the Ocean Engineering Centre was
established at one of the advanced centres.
Yes.
And each IIT got one centre and so IIT Madras got ocean engineering.
And they were not getting people with expertise an ocean engineering
because the ocean engineering was not
globally also not a well-developed subject.
It was just picking up.
So, when the interview was there then I went for the interview there
and then they offered me the professorship there.
Ok.
Then, they also said that this
is a challenge you have to build a new institution
and Professor Mithra from IIT.
Kharagpur.
Kharagpur was there in charge of the Ocean Engineering Centre.
So, but he was already retired.
Ok.
So, then I was joining as next person to him.
So, I I thought that this is a good opportunity to
extend into a new area because
foundational engineering, geotechnical engineering
also you have to deal with coastal and offshore foundations.
Correct, yeah. So, I
I took a decision to take that offer
because I didn't have the offer for the
professorship in civil engineering yet.
Ok.
Probably, it would have come after a year or 2, but anyway.
So, I went there
and then by then Professor Indiresan has come as a director.
Oh yes yes.
So, that is how an ocean engineering he supported that very well.
Then, he visited the Ocean Engineering Centre,
we had some faculty, not many.
Ok.
And, but after the meeting was over,
after he interacted with that
for some reason he looked at me I was not the head.
He told me Professor Raju you please send
me a minutes of this meeting.
I was surprised because you did not ask the
head of the department, he is asking me.
Then, I consulted the head of the department
and then I told him he said, yes, yes please prepare and I
prepared the minutes and showed to him,
and then sent it to Professor Indiresan.
And Professor Mithra retired.
Ok.
Then Professor professor Indiresan asked me
to take over at the head of the Ocean Engineering he said.
Then, we want looking looking some more people
and realize that we should take people
who are already very good in their respective fields
and ask them to reorient themselves to ocean engineering.
That how we did you know, you are a part of that.
One of the probably legendary projects was because
immediately after you came in and also with intension
taking lot of interest in those people who have,
I think you could invent the DST to support a huge project on wave energy.
Yes, yes.
I think it has logical conclusion
of establishing or installing a wave energy caisson off Trivandrum.
Right, right.
Can you can you elaborate on that I think
audience will be very very happy to listen to it because its a it is
you are one of the very successful projects had been.
Yeah.
See, what happened is
we were doing simultaneously building up the Ocean Engineering Centre,
doing the wave basin and covering the wave basin.
And then you know for example, this I want to mention before
going to wave energy project
this is very interesting, then then you know
the normal way of covering a basin of that size in those days was
to put a steel truss with AC sheeting.
Correct.
And then I felt that as a technological institute
we should do something different.
Then our good friend A. Ramakrishna
who was at the time in L&T, ECC.
I talked to him.
He said we should put a
folded plate roof concrete roof
that is it is made to span,
cost on the ground, lifted, and placed in position.
And, but that was not done in the country before.
Ok.
So, we are going to do it for the first time.
Then, I went to Professor Indiresan and said
this is the situation this has not been done before,
but he said are you confident of doing it.
I said yes.
Then, he said immediately please go ahead.
So, then we did that and I think it has come out quite well.
So, that was one instant.
Professor Indiresan also said we are also trying,
so you have to focus on some areas you cannot do everything.
Then, I then I said those days ocean energy was the fashion.
Yeah.
So, people were talking of OTEC,
then that is the ocean thermal energy,
wave energy and tidal energy. Tidal energy,
yeah.
Tidal energy was already quite advanced,
that there were already a plant in France, tidal energy plant.
Then, actually Professor Indiresan used to participate in
Saturday meetings where we had invited different
people from different departments
and we talk used to talk about OTEC and the wave energy.
At the same time the department of ocean development
was started in Government of India.
Yes.
There was also a Department of Non-Conventional Energy
in the ministry already that was before the Ocean Energy Department.
And they sponsored a project for,
but discussion then things like that.
And later ocean development came.
And then we said that we should do something substantial.
Then I was also on the sort of a Ocean Commission,
I was also a member of the Ocean Commission
and also there was a National Institute of Oceanography,
I was also member there on the governing,
I think research council they used to call it.
Ok.
Then we made a proposal for this wave energy
project, then we certainly do a pilot plants.
The best way of conditions,
relatively best way of conditions were available
of the course of Trivandrum, Kovalam.
So we proposed that.
And then they sanctioned that.
So, that is how that project started and then
many people joined, then Ravindran joined as
PSO, Principal Scientific Officer.
I don't remember when he actually joined, but he also.
So, that is how the project started.
And that was also a great experience.
He wanted to build a huge caisson and how to build this and
nobody has done it before,
not only in India anywhere in the world.
There again Mr. Ramakrishna
from L&T, he came forward.
And then our accounts people
they said how can you give the job without without
quotations and there is only single person. Yeah.
Then, I said ok, let us go to site.
So, I took the our accounts people to
Vizhinjam or Kovalam.
Yeah.
And showed him the place and said here we have to
build a something like
how many storage structure, I not exactly remember now,
but huge scale you have to pay you tell me how we can get.
Nobody is prepared to do it.
Even one person we had to persuade.
Ok.
And so they appreciated that.
In fact, they immediately said yes sir.
This is the way we should do it
and then and all of you work very hard.
So, then the project will.
Sir, Professor, Professor Indiresan and
we had a very sort of very close relation.
Yes.
That has definitely resulted in many,
not only projects, but also
for example this building itself.
Yeah, yes. Building that we are sitting
is again you know.
Yeah, actually actually this this
being this ICSR building came much later,
not during Professor Indiresan’s time.
Ok oh I see.
Yeah ok.
And then in Professor Indiresan time
many things happened.
It was very interesting how I think
he was so proactive, so supportive
and probably I think in some way we were the same on the same page.
For example, he made me chairman incident works.
Yes.
So, I wanted to see the entire campus
of course, that anyway we were doing walking.
But I wanted to walk all along the boundary of the
campus to see the boundary all, what is the condition, and then some
people were making holes in the boundary wall and then
trespassing and all that.
So, on Sunday along with
my wife I told her let us walk along the boundary
and suddenly I find Professor Indiresan
and Mrs. Indiresan doing the same thing.
So, we really met at that time.
Ok.
So, that is one thing.
And then the second instance is the SAC building,
the student activity centre.
Ok.
That was being during his time.
That was a silver jubilee occasion and the government gave
extra grants for the student activity centre.
So, next day was the inauguration,
president of India was inaugurating to him.
So, sometime around 9 O’clock
or 9:30 in the evening,
earlier we have seen all the arrangements.
So, I felt that I should see
whether everything is ok now or what is really happening
I reached there at 9:30.
Promptly I find Professor Indiresan and Mrs. Indiresan there.
So, they he was also trying to instruct them.
That every way he was very supportive.
Ok.
And that any paper I take for approval
he would immediately sign
without even reading anything looking at it.
Ok.
So, I asked him sir one day
how are you just approving it even without
reading what I have written.
Sir, there is no need because I know that
you will not ask anything unreasonable.
So, what you are asking.
So, that is. That is a confidence,
that is a confidence he had in you.
He was extremely supportive
and that's how I learned that you have to be very supportive,
later your colleagues,
you have to trust them and you have to empower them.
That is correct.
I think it helped me a lot after subsequent years.
Then, student activity centre was actually planned
subsequently and I think it was
Professor L. N. Ramamurthy’s time when he was the dean,
some planning was done.
Ok.
But then I think Professor Radhakrishna
of Mechanical Engineering also was there I think,
then then I took over as dean.
Ok.
And this was still under construction.
So, we used to visit and then made some changes
and then some developments and all that.
Professor professor Aravindan checked all the designs for that the building.
So, there was a great tradition in IIT Madras,
all of faculty would used to get involved
with a campus development and checking designs and all that.
So, that way it was very good, very.
Then the then I moved in into the
first time into the ICSR building.
Coming back to ocean engineering, I think
we had two phases of German assistance.
I think this has also been you know
during your time you know both these
assistance programmes were planned.
Yeah.
And of course, Professor Indiresan was very very supportive.
I think many in the campus perhaps
were not very happy that ocean engineering is
you know getting a lot of disability and also
a development of funds, whether it is
you know Government of India funds
or the the the assistance from Germany.
How were you able to manage the German assistance.
Actually. In fact, of all the problems.
Actually what happened was that
you know whenever these
Germans used to come
and especially from the German agency for development,
they used to visit different places
and I think they also visited ocean engineering
and I used to interact with them.
Yeah.
So, I told them that this is a new area
and Germany is also developing in this area
and we should get assistance from Germany,
but then they said that the programme of assistance is closed.
At that time they were only doing exchange of faculty.
So, some some faculty members were selected
you know to go to Germany and then
for 2 months, 3 months like that.
But then finally, they I have I convinced them
there is is you know just because
you have some time limitations you know that
Ocean Engineering Centre should not be denied
getting assistance because without that it would be very difficult.
So, because you know random wave
and wave generators for the basin and
all that it would have been very difficult for us.
And then they agreed and then they sent
a German professor from Berlin to visit us.
He came and the he gave a report he supported it
and then then finally, they agreed to fund this project hereby.
So, I think that was a very useful inputs that we got from there
and I think as far as
I know probably subsequently NSTL must have built some of
these random wave facilities and all that,
but at that time probably we were the only institute.
So, these are the.
In fact, even in Germany they were
not having a similar facility.
No. So, that was the magnanimity
of the German assistance.
That was the way we were successful.
And I think Professor Indiresan also strongly supported that.
During his period only we got the assistance.
Sir, during your time as dean, ICSR you know
I think the PIs,
coordinators were actually liberated from lot of gangly (incoherent) holes.
Yes.
The in front of the work.
Yes, yes.
I think lot of changes where have been brought in
and as you used to say that the manager should be
that should not be a power centre.
Should be a service centre.
I think that type of a culture you should
probably instill in some of the offices here.
Yes.
That was a great change.
How do you bring about, one was that
visited Trivandrum is one thing that has changed their attitude,
but you know new things which from here itself you could change.
See, when I joined IIT Madras
and that was in 1970,
then ICSR was not yet started at that time.
I think it came later, couple of years later 73 or so.
Then you know if you get a project sponsor project,
if if you want to take a scientific officer or a someone into the project,
the registrar told me that it will take an year,
the process, because we have to advertise
in the papers and then you know whatever.
It's a very long.
You know I was shocked. How can you
wait for an year to start a project.
So, anyway, then ICSR started and then they were
slowly improving the processes and then,
but still there was
it was taking some time, couple of months to recruit.
And I said what is there in recruiting a project officer.
Finally, it should be the choice of the principal investigate, PI.
So, I made a proposal these an ICSR committee, I made a proposal
that we will have a standing committee
for recruitment of the project officer,
so which will meet every Friday and Saturday.
And when in this standing committee then of course,
the PI will be also a member
and the consult head of the department may be
somebody could be a member.
So, we will give the and then
this is sort of like a walk in interview sort of a thing.
Even without advertisement people can apply or whatever they.
Ok. And then
every week we will have this standing committee meeting.
So, therefore, if somebody finds a person on a Monday,
by Saturday the appointment letter would be given
or even Friday,
Saturday appointment letter would be given
because it is only the matter of just.
Only only condition is that was he should not
be related to you and you should be qualified.
You should have minimum qualifications.
That was acceptant.
I think I should say also Professor N. V. C. Swamy
who was the director at that time
he also supported us to have this processes.
And then people were
happy and they said we will trust people,
some people may misuse, but that trust, but doesn't matter.
So, but that is better to trust.
But I must say that that time when I took over
our consulting value was about a crore
in those days, now it must be 100 crores or whatever it is.
In 5 years in it it increased by 5 times.
So, 1 crore became 5 crores in 5 years
that is a phenomenal growth.
Then, sponsor research also grew maybe
3 times or something like that.
I don't remember the figure.
And also that was a very nice experience. We had good people.
And I think it worked well.
It worked well. It worked well.
You had a very you know enormous influence
of lot of youngsters ofcourse
I am also one of them.
Many many people you know you
mentored up later on you know they are
grown in in in various areas and
how did you inculcate this culture or
supporting and trusting people like
you have a goal and you know you mentor people,
so that you know we can reach
the goal.
That that is set for yourself.
You know what I learnt from my
team my superiors or
people who mentored me was that most
important thing is trust.
And trust in empowerment,
you have to trust then you have to empower people
and that's what we did and it worked very well.
So, so therefore, I what I learnt
from my mentors, I just passed it down.
And so I already gave you the examples of Dr. A Ramachandran
and Professor Indiresan and
you know what they taught us how to go about it.
So, therefore, it was quite easy and then
then they grew afterwards by their own merit of course
and by the ofcourse, team work.
Team work are also very important.
You know you remember when we did all these
in both consulting projects and then
sponsored projects we were such big teams.
Ok. I remember that
when we were doing consulting then
doing the instrumentation part you did the instrumented,
one jetty in Paradip
I remember that very path breaking studies.
Yes. And Aravindan and
Meher Prasad and you know Velu, Gandhi.
So, this is why it was such a wonderful thing and also
number of project officers, I remember I think
maximum number we had only about 12 or so in those days.
Ok. It's all
it I think it's all teamwork and the
merit of the people by themselves.
Most people are really good.
Even today I am seeing it. Youngsters
you put them in the right place and then tell them how to go about
and then encourage them, they will learn very fast.
So, we have lot of talent in this country.
But yesterday night I was
thinking about this Paradip Port project that we have done.
Yes.
Even today I can't believe a load cell which has been put
in the soil for several months.
Yes.
Worked very well after you know we dug up everything and then
again did the measurements.
Oh really.
I did the, in fact, the load cell were designed by us,
everything was done by us.
Yes of course.
And it it it I think we went there after the
dredging was over and then about 6 months,
it took almost 6 months,
Velu and myself went and. Yes.
Our heart was beating very fast to find out
you know whether it is going to work or not because otherwise
6 months effort has already lost.
Sure, sure.
those working so well.
You should get, yeah
it has it could get exactly the type of
predicted load that was coming onto the drivers;
is it is it is a wonderful experience.
And these are all you know
many people are not even attempted to do such
such work anywhere in the world perhaps
that is why it has become an ISD publication.
Right.
See, it is a first of all
recognizing that there is a need to;
first of all recognizing that that particular system will
work in a particular way
that was the one part.
Then afterwards you have some
youngsters I think do do is
structural analysis or whatever analysis
appropriate analysis to prove it through analysis.
But finally, to prove it through measurements,
so several roads.
So, initial identification maybe I I could see is the the concept.
Then analysis was I think done by Sundaravalli Velu, this
structural analysis and then you pioneer at the
instrumentation part and did that that is
and that is how it should be.
It's always team work.
Sir, a few words about NIOT because that is again
you had a major role in bringing NIOT to
Chennai to IIT Madras and it has so it has brought
much more perhaps that.
Budget of NIOT is at least 2 to 3
times not that that was all. Right.
What was your?
Yeah.
See, it was like this that I was on the Ocean
Commission as a member
and Professor P. Rama Rao became secretary DST
as well as the secretary of DOD ocean development.
And we used to discuss
in various meetings and all that,
and then during the discussions it came on saying that
ocean development, Department of Ocean Development
needs an institution of of its own funded by them.
Much beyond the Ocean Engineering Centre.
Ocean Engineering Centre was of course,
doing this wave energy project and all that.
Correct, correct.
So, then then academic was decided to start NIOT
and I told Professor Rama Rao they desperate to start
NIOT is to locate it on campus
and I was I was also a dean ICSR.
So, we said we will put one extra floor.
Ok.
On the ICSR building
and you please pay for that that that floor
and then he immediately accepted it
and Professor Swamy also accepted the proposal.
And that is how NIOT started in our campus.
And then, then naturally they grew
to a particular size that this space was no more adequate.
Ok.
Then they moved out and they found land and
then of course, Ravindran has taken it
forward as a director of NIOT.
So, that is how.
So, that that was a good move.
Then such experiences like would replicate
later more effectively in Delhi.
Ok.
That of co-locating the facilities with an institution.
In fact, that is my next question.
From IIT Madras after you know
you went as director of IIT Delhi.
Yes.
And you had a full term there.
Of course, definitely when somebody goes
from one institute to another institute,
best practices of the previous institute will be
I will try to replicate in in the new institute because through this.
Yes.
An established institute of the. How did the faculty of IIT Delhi.
Yeah.
Receive the the changes that you try to bring about
or the best practices that you have you know
from Madras, IIT Madras you you try to
implement it with an IIT Delhi.
What was the type of reaction from
you tackled the students as well as the staffs?
You know first I would say that
I would I would never thought that I would
go to actually Delhi I mean to lecture.
This is not in my thinking or whatever it was.
At that, by the time I was
selected at IIT Delhi I I was dean ICSR
and STS as dean I used to appreciate when.
Yeah.
director was out of station.
So, then I think when I was invited,
those days you cannot apply for a directorship.
Today I think people can apply.
Then anyways, nominations were there, I think
I don't know who all nominated, but definitely Professor Indiresan
through his channels he he
he nominated me and then
then invited for an interview and of course,
there it went very well, the interview went very well.
Then, I received this invitation to at IIT Delhi.
Then, after going there obviously,
you have all the experiences at IIT Madras of
working in the Civil Engineering Department,
Ocean Engineering Centre,
chairman, Estate and Works, which I did and then dean ICSR.
So, all these things were practically you know. Then
first thing I started was to visit all the departments
and then and centres and meet all of them.
Systematically, first meet the faculty, then meet
the staff, and meet the research students
and go around the labs and see what is.
Then go around the hostels because
that was my hobby to walk,
so I used to, I have seen every nook and corner of the campus.
Then quickly realized that
there is a backlog of faculty selections.
And so simple things, then then we immediately
went through the process of faculty selections.
You know generally nowadays maybe
things have changed, but in those days
you call all the faculty, interviews will run from morning to evening,
say 9 O’clock to evening 5 O’clock or 6 O’clock, they won't tell
when your turn will come.
So, people are just waiting from 9 to 6, some of them.
As I I I just thought about it and then said
why not we give them a time slot.
So, everybody was given a time slot of 15-20 minutes.
So, they exactly know when they are
required to be there, otherwise.
Such small things made a huge impact
going to the department and talking
with the faculty in detail and asking
in the with youngsters and hearing patiently what they have to say.
You know every semester I registered every department and centre
and centre facilities,
because you know that what
and how to get rid of obsolete equipment
because at least when I went there
and we may be true with most institutions even today
and everywhere we find lot of obsolete
equipment occupying space.
So, then I said why is it lying here
and then this administration will say that
you cant write off easily, there is a big
procedures for that and all that.
Then, I said I want a very quick coalition and finally,
I told the engineering unit
they used to have cement godowns,
I said why is this godown here such a huge godown.
No sir, we supply cement because
they may not bring quality cement.
I said forget about it.
Now, there is enough quality cement available in the market.
Maybe in olden days it was different.
So, I emptied the cement godown
and said shift everything which is
not functional into the godown.
Ok, ok.
So, 30 percent of the space
which was occupied by obsolete equipment were became free.
So, suddenly imagine that you we have so much
space which is unutilized becomes useful.
So, all those things made people happy
and they cooperated very well.
There are so many issues that will crop up,
we have to think out of the box.
Ok. So, for example, the campus was not green enough
compared to Madras campus.
So, then I told them my board in first meeting
we will plant a 1000 trees every year
on the Delhi campus.
Earlier were doing maybe 100 trees a year.
And then main the board members plant trees,
started with them with the chairman of the board.
And a small committee and
told them I want your help,
we need to plant 1000 trees.
So, they planted 2200 trees in the first year.
So, then it became the norm, 2200 is the norm.
So, 5 years I think they planted about
11000 trees or something like that.
Same thing you know with bathrooms, hostels,
if you go to the kitchen you will find
that tube lights are not working,
fan is not working, exhaust fan is not there, it's all
you know, then with a vengeance you get all those
things renovated and things like that.
So, that will win a lot of friends
because people who are working in the kitchen they are happy
then then once they are happy,
they treat the students well, they cook better.
So, like that and then construction because we said
we had 2400 students
when I went in 1995 and 2200 employees
20 acres of land,
so un utilization.
So, I told them that we should
aim to double the student strength
in my period of 5 years.
So, then you need more hostel rooms.
So, I asked the engineering unit how are you building.
So, they said that building 50 rooms,
so of course, for the government hostel
for the last 2 and half years.
I said that is too slow.
We need something different.
Then, we have planned bigger hostels and then
got the bigger builders and finally,
with our friends help got L&T to do hostels.
And they build very fast.
We were building them you know.
Sometimes one has to look at the minor things,
using my experience you know
in addition to this planting saplings and trees
I used to find the cattle on campus.
Late nights, not during the day.
See, what the neighboring villages were doing,
they will connive with the security
and though we have cattle traps
in the night they will put a plank on that
and drive the cattle.
And take them away in the morning.
So, I used to come sometimes
from the late flights to the campus and see the cattle there.
So, then I told the security officer, this is very
serious and I don't want to see any cattle on campus.
Then that made a huge difference because
without cattle all the plants started growing themselves.
Ok.
That was one important thing.
The same thing also was with the toilets,
that they were not in a proper condition and then.
So, I I literally took
the institute engineer with me and then I said if
they are not fixed within the next 2 weeks,
so I will start cleaning them and then
you may not have any option to join me in doing so.
So, that worked and then they improved.
But again they go back.
So, in there were in many ways academically
also recruiting faculty in you know,
and some of the innovations we did was that
new faculty were informed immediately
after the selection, after the interview itself.
Ok.
See earlier people will be waiting
and sitting in the admissions office to find out
have I got selected, am I promoted and all that.
I told the heads of the departments
at the end of the day itself you just
call them and tell them that they are already selected
and that made a difference
because then they are not,
then they are happy and they are join you and similarly with
people who are promoted also
without waiting for the registrar to send formal letters,
I used to send letters to them,
congratulation letters saying that
I am happy to inform you and that you are being elevated.
So, and so and then the formal letter will found.
So, all those small small things I think
motivated people well.
Sir, this is my last question.
Yeah. Looking back,
what do you think is your most unique
contribution to IIT Madras?
I know it will be very difficult because
large number of contributions
that you gave to research ofcourse,
what do you think is the most unique,
a single contribution to IIT?
You mean to say that the most
most important thing in my view?
In your view, yes.
What I what what I feel is that
I mean on the whole being open minded
and yeah they said already
mutual trust and common good and such things,
they were helped.
Certainly, I think Ocean Engineering Centre
is certainly a very good
you know example of creating a great facility.
Probably, one of the best of its kind in this part of the world,
that is one one one contribution.
And I think also
the number of colleagues who have really
done well and reach in
to higher levels and then to higher contributions.
So, I would say human resource I will put first;
you know what we have been able to create.
Then, establishing the facilities,
than building you know that create you know,
even I feel that what we have achieved together
and the consultancy friends and
sponsor research fund also is quite substantial.
Nothing when the wave project,
wave energy project was given
probably at that time that was the biggest projects.
Sir, in conclusion would you like to
because this will be viewed by many people.
Yes.
This is a part of an audio book
on IIT Madras that was published by Heritage Centre.
Yeah.
Do you have any concluding remarks to make?
I think I have already said that thing in the previous,
last point I think what I said and I think.
what I I have I have experienced is
that human tendencies to think
that what we got is taken for granted
and what we did not get looks very big.
Ok.
You know and then we always expect things to
happen faster than what they happen.
But I think the wisdom lies in
accepting things as they are and then
trying to improve and
focus on teamwork and then mutual mutual benefits,
and and the common good as I said already.
And also finally, at the good of the nation,
I mean that should be uppermost in our mind.
Sir, one one thing which I did not
ask you it's about a about your 3 children.
Yes.
I think you should tell something about them.
Ok. Yeah.
Actually, it made a great difference for
them to grow up in the campus.
Really, I think
you know, one of the important
things for us as seniors is to get faculty.
So, I used to tell the people
if you join as the faculty you have
all the freedom, number one.
And your children will get good education
and carrier and which are both
you know very important.
Ok.
So, that way we were fortunate that
we have 3 children, son and 2 daughters.
Son and elder daughter both did undergraduate
IIT Madras which is quite thing
and this the younger one did masters in Mathematics at IIT
and all of them are doing well.
So, I think definitely the campus education in the
campus living has made a
significant contribution for their for their growth.
And also, the impact the value systems
that we follow in the campus.
And I think it has been a great experience.
So, I can't think of a better place for children to grow.
Yeah, yes, yes
A campus like IIT Madras.
Thank you very much sir.
I think.
Thank you thank you Chandy.
Time we give together.
Yeah, it's it is so so nice that after a long time
we are sitting and then talking.
Yeah, we will continue to keep in touch.
Yeah, sure.
Thank you and all the best to you and your family.
Thank you. Thank you and bye.
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