Mr. Ramachandra R. Iyer (First batch alumnus) in conversation with Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam

Good afternoon, Mr. Ramachandra,

welcome to the Heritage Centre

[Mr. Ramachandra] Thank you. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] and to this

Oral History programme.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Thank you.

Thank you for joining us.

My pleasure.

So, it’s very exciting that

a student from the first batch of B.Tech. students

at IIT Madras can participate in this.

So, can you tell us

how you came to know about IIT

when you were joining here?

Yeah, sure sure.

Well, actually what happened there was

small advertisement in Times Of India,

it seems, "it seems" I said because

I - I don’t remember having seen it,

but my brother had seen it -

my elder brother who is 2 years and a few months older

Yes.

and he was in Ahmedabad -

I grew up in Ahmedabad -

he was going to an engineering college in Ahmedabad.

Yes.

And he said

well, why don’t you apply to IIT Madras?

I said: okay,

I mean I - I told him at that time

most probably

I won’t get admitted anyway,

because you know

in those days there were

IIT Kharagpur and Bombay.

Yes.

And there was a perception

that, I mean,

it's very difficult to get into it,

though I was,

you know, fairly a good student

and I used to get good marks in

pre-university and all those places,

but one doesn’t know actually.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] What is required

[Mr. Ramachandra] to get into IIT. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right, that’s right.

So, I was just - made a joke

at him, ok,

I will - I'll send my papers,

application,

but don’t expect much out of it -

I told him that.

So, that’s how it happened,

he told me and …

and - and the truth is actually

I had already been admitted

to another engineering college

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] in a place called Anand.

Yes.

That’s where Amul Dairy is.

That’s right.

That’s not very far from Ahmedabad.

But there was some

problem there.

So, because of that problem

I - I mean that that’s a -

a story by itself.

And the students went on -

it's something was wrong

in the mess, in the food.

So, the - the students there

went on strike

and we didn’t know,

suddenly we came to know

there was strike,

we came home.

We had already

joined the college,

'we' means

another person was -

a cousin of mine and myself -

and then it turned out that

this college was closed,

campus

everybody was asked to go home.

So, we came home.

And, when we came home

after a couple - couple of days,

I got this invitation

Yes.

to come to IIT Madras.

And you know,

appear for an interview.

Yes.

Because, before that we had

I had already sent the mark sheet

of PUC, you know, Pre-University and

high school and all of that.

Yes.

So, that’s how it happened

and then after the interview,

the interview went very well,

they were very happy

with my interview

and I got the admission, yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Alright. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

So, you actually visited Chennai

to participate in the interview?

Right, right, yeah, yeah,

from Ahmedabad,

[Mr. Ramachandra] yeah, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

That’s correct, yeah,

though I have visited

Chennai many times

because, I have relatives here.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, what was the

interview process like?

Who was there on the interview panel?

Can you recall - recollect anyone

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] was there? [Mr. Ramachandra] I can’t remember the names

of - of the people

but there were certainly

3 people minimum

that much I remember.

And the content of the interview

that I remember

because there again

what happened is

they were asking me

why do you - I mean,

what is your fa - In those days

I don’t know how it is today,

it was very common to ask

what is your father doing?

You know

because very often the children

followed the profession of the father.

Yes.

That was

or at least they want to find out

it's just doctor’s family

or lawyer’s family whatever.

Yes.

So, now, my - I told them

my father is in the textiles mills

because

he was an executive in a textile mills

Yes.

in Ahmedabad.

Ahmedabad was full of textile mills

in those days.

So,

then they immediately

asked me: do you know how

to - how a cloth is made?

You know,

if you start from cotton,

how a cloth is made.

Yes.

Now it so happens that

I had - I have visited

my father’s textile mills.

You know, he was working

in a group of textile mills,

very big ones

where they had 7 textile mills.

And my dad was responsible

for the what is known as

spinning department.

You must be familiar with the

different departments in -

So, he was responsible for the spinning department

for 2 textile mills and

whenever we had guests

in our house from any place,

he would take them to this

textile mills to - just to show them

Yes.

what a textile mills looks like.

That’s right.

So, there was somebody

who had come to our family,

my - actually my uncle,

my mother’s younger brother

from Chennai.

So, he - he was taken -

asked - he - he wanted to see

the textile mills.

So, I went along with him.

So, my dad explained everything

and I was listening.

So, carefully we listened to everything

I understood everything because

it was

I mean, he - he explained very well,

clearly.

So, when I came for the interview,

they asked this question:

"How do you go from raw cotton

o cloth

and then the final product

which is sold in the - in a shop?"

So, I explained to them

all the steps,

they were actually very amazed

that I went into such level of detail

and I think that had to do with

the fact that I had visited

the textile mills

just about a month earlier or so

and maybe it is destiny

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] that helped.

Yes yes.

Yeah,

they were very impressed actually

that somebody like 16 year old

Yes.

could tell

that - that level of detail:

how you go from cotton,

raw cotton

you know, which you get from the fields

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right. [Mr. Ramachandra] and then you

have to clean it

and then you have to spin it

and you name it, you know,

until you get the cloth,

you bleach it and then you dye it.

Right.

… So,

I mean - I think that

that actually did the trick.

Because my marks were anyway

good you know,

I was I was a top ranker

in - in the college

along with the my cousin;

both of us were first and second

all the time, you know, so …

And the university

marks were also good,

I mean - apart from the fact in the

college marks we had good marks.

So, the - the marks were

not an issue because,

they I suppose in - in - in that

year they took from each university

students who were kind of top

students

because there was no other

common exam.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] So, whether it is

Tamil Nadu or Calcutta

or wherever,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] they had to get

students from the

good universities and

those who had the top marks

and

certainly I was one of them.

And then, that helped

plus the interview, yeah, so.

That’s how it happened.

Right,

and you

once you joined here,

Yeah.

it was before the inauguration

of the institute is what I understand

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] from the records [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah,

[Mr. Ramachandra] yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] because

the official inauguration

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] was on 31st July. [Mr. Ramachandra] Happened later -

[Mr. Ramachandra] happened. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] but you joined here for earlier

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] to … [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] enter the hostel and classes.

Yeah, we went to Saidapet Hostel,

of course.

Yes, you were - were - you were in Saidapet Hostel.

Because

the first two years as you said,

Yes.

of the first batch, we were there.

Yes.

Yeah.

Do you have any recollections

of that hostel and that

days you spent there?

Well, me - most

the important recollections

I have is that we had to walk

a long distance to come here …

and then of course, that

it was a - it was a canteen

where we could make easily friends.

Yeah.

And people always try to interact

and find out who you are,

where are you coming from.

So, it was a very

cosy hostel.

So that rooms were close to each other

and people tended to

you know, after they come -

we had classes

we - excuse me -

we came home

or we came back to the hostel,

we had snacks

usually there were some snacks

and then, you know, you don’t

start studying immediately.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right. [Mr. Ramachandra] Usually you take a

shower also,

but about 10, 15 minutes

or half an hour we chitchat with

[Mr. Ramachandra] with people on that corridor. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And the whole str -

layout of the hostel

that facilitated

this interaction.

I see.

Yeah and then of course,

there was also a table tennis …

table and - and - and - and

I don’t know,

maybe there was also carrom.

So, there were some places

where you could make friends.

So, it - it was actually a nice hostel

except of course,

there were 2 persons in each room.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah,

which is not a bad thing

but we were …

later when we came to Cauvery hostel,

each one was given a separate room.

Separate room.

Yeah, yeah.

So, and -

yeah, I had a nice roommate,

he was from Madurai also

your town.

Oh, I see.

Yeah, yeah

[Mr. Ramachandra] yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Not Mr. Amudachari.

Not Amudachari, but another person

called Venkata Pattabhi Raman.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I see. [Mr. Ramachandra] He was in metallurgy.

I see.

L. Venkata Pattabhi Raman.

Metallurgy student.

And he and - he knew Amudachari

before coming here.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] They knew each other.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I see. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah,

yeah yeah.

So, Amudachari is also top student

from Madurai

when he came, yeah.

Right,

you mentioned that

you actually walked from Saidapet to

IIT.

Yeah.

Well, classes would have been in

the A.C. Tech College,

weren't they in the beginning?

Yeah, yeah.

So, that was

quite some time that you walked.

Yeah, yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in the sun and the - [Mr. Ramachandra] Probably. I can’t even remember, it might have been

25-30 minutes.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah

and I think we had to cross

the Adyar river

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] somewhere - it’s a

small bridge - walking bridge

is also there.

Yeah, I haven’t been there recently,

incidentally,

but that’s what I think

there is one.

Is it true

that you also walked back for lunch

and then returned for classes -

is that how it worked?

I can’t remember

that part, I can’t remember.

Right.

But - I - what I do know is

there was more than 1 hour

of lunch break;

I think about 1 and half hours.

Yes.

If I don’t remember,

if I - if I am recollect correct,

certainly after coming to

Cauvery hostel,

Yes.

it was - the classes were from

7:30 to 11:30 or

11:45, and afterwards

it would start at 1:15

or 1:30

to 4:30.

Yes.

Therefore, there was more than

1 hour gap

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] for the lunch

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] and maybe we did go

because otherwise

we would not have had lunch.

Eh, your -

[Mr. Ramachandra] I mean we did not. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

Oh, yeah it must have

happened that way

now that you are -

because we were not given any

lunch boxes or anything.

Yes.

So, we had to go back

you know, yeah.

Because there was no lunch boxes

packed or anything like that.

Right.

Who were your instructors then

and what classes did you have

in the first year and - and

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] the second year? [Mr. Ramachandra] First year we had maths.

Yes.

I think we had physics,

there was a Workshop

you know fitting.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] And, I didn’t

like it at all, incidentally.

Most people didn’t,

if you're not a mechanic,

if you didn’t want to take

mechanical engineering.

Yes.

I always already, then

I thought it was a waste of my time

Yes, yes.

because I used to also get blisters.

That’s right.

See, my hand is very soft even today

and at that time, even softer.

So, whenever you do that.

Yes.

I was a very

lean person.

You know, I

I didn’t have the strength

to do those things.

Yes.

And there is no allowance made

for a weak student or a

good - strong student.

Right.

You have to do it

Everyone does it.

Everybody has to.

That’s right

And I was not - actually

I was unfit for that

kind of a thing,

to be very honest,

yeah. So, there was this

fitting workshop

and then there was - I think

I think -

there was a drafting class.

I don’t know if it is in the first year

or second year

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] but certainly

it was in one of the 2 years.

Drafting, fitting,

I think English also was there,

if I'm not mistaken.

Yes.

Maths was there,

physics was there.

Yes.

I think chemistry also.

There were no

engineering courses;

it had not yet started.

Right.

Yeah, that started from the

second year - to -

to the best of my

recollection,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right. [Mr. Ramachandra] memory,

I - I think no engineering courses

were offered at that time,

yet.

Did - did you have practical sessions

in laboratories

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in chemistry and physics? [Mr. Ramachandra] I think in physics and -

physics and chemistry we did.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Those were labs also in

A.C. College of technology.

Yeah,

I remember that yeah,

they were - I am sure they were.

That's because - because

we had physics and chemistry,

I am kind of inferring

[Mr. Ramachandra] I'm - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

But - and I also know that

I was - I now remember

where - which lab

I was standing and all that.

But, I - I'm not 100 percent sure

whether it was first year or second year,

but I think it was in the first year.

And your classmates

you … who were they and

who were your closest friends?

Well, even now it is

the same friends,

which I had now

were also my closest friends then.

Yes.

So, Koteeswaran

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] is one of them,

then Mahadevan,

Srinivasan,

Amudacharya, I knew a little bit,

but at that time he was not

one of my closest friends.

There is another person called

P. K. Prabhakaran.

Have you done an interview with him?

[Mr. Ramachandra] No? [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] No.

He is a - he is also in Civil engineering.

He was a Civil engineer

but he was later in Cauvery hostel

on - on my same corridor,

some 3 rooms further away.

So, he became a

good friend of mine.

Yes.

But the closest were

Koteeswaran,

Mahadevan,

Srinivasan, another person called

Mohan.

I think he's now in France.

There was another person

no, at that - not in the first year -

in the first year, I was not

very close to another person called

Eswaran.

He - he - he is also an

Electrical engineering student

but in the first year

I didn’t know him so well.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Because

when we joined

Electrical engineering together

in the third year,

since then - from that time

onwards he was also a close friend.

First year like

I'm just trying to think

who was, who else was there,

these were very close:

Mohan, Koteeswaran,

Srinivasan, Mahadevan

yeah, of course,

Pattabhiraman,

who was my roommate.

Your roommate.

Roommate.

I can’t remember now, this.

Another point is

I was

I was a little bit of an introvert,

I was a shy person.

I was not like you know

some people are, you know,

bursting with, you know, energy

and they will start talking

and interacting,

that I do now, today.

Today I interact with

A child of 5 - 200.

But, in those days I was

I was an introvert.

So, I didn’t have that many friends

in the first year.

Yes.

There might have been another

couple of - or 2 or 3,

but now

I can’t remember the names.

But these were definitely closest

what I mentioned here.

Yes,

and so, this went on for 2 years

this system of classes

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in A.C. Tech

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Workshop, nearby. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah,

yeah.

Now, do you have

recollections of

Professor Sengupto

from those days?

Yeah.

The Director.

We didn’t have too many interactions

that was my regret, actually.

He did not have too many interactions

with the students like

every 3 months or any such thing,

what we do now is …

he - he came with a reputation

that he is a very systematic person

and he is a good administrator.

Yes.

And … he is also very strict

coming from the, you know,

services, army, I think,

I don’t know

whether there was an army or air force,

but he is from the services.

Actually, we have very little information about his -

Is that so?

Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Ok. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] His career before he

But, he is -

joined the VJTI at Bombay.

But he was from the services,

he has worked in the services.

He - he made speeches which were

to the point, you know,

but … I - if I may be honest,

the speeches which inspired all of us

was that of Natarajan.

Natarajan, the registrar.

I mean, he was just too good.

So, this - their speeches

which always stayed with us

Yes.

were those of R. Natarajan.

And Mr. Sengupto

he was all to the point,

business-like, whatever

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] needed to be said,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] he would say it

whereas

Natarajan would digress a little bit,

make a story.

Yes.

And it'll be a humorous one.

Yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] So, it was always great

to listen to him.

Right.

Yeah, and his command of the English language

I have -

I have met few people like him

in my life

who can speak so well.

Yeah, yeah

Mr. - Mr. Natarajan was the registrar.

Yeah.

So, which is really an administrative

post.

Yeah.

But still he knew number of students

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] and [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

met with them.

So, what did he

how did this happen, how -

did he come out to your hostel

to talk with you or -

Actually, it didn’t happen

too much with me.

Yes.

I don’t know with - with

how many students he talked -maybe

the ones who were, you know,

I was in the kind of third or

in my - in the first two years,

I was not one of the better students

let’s say,

I was a average to above slightly;

from third, I started doing very well because,

I final - I - I finished with the first class.

So, from third year onwards

I started doing much better because,

there is a more focus

on my own field of studies.

I don’t know whether he spoke

with many students -

maybe he might have

or maybe also that,

he did it at a time when

I - I was gone

either I was playing

somewhere.

So, I have seen him maybe

1 or 2 times in the hostel,

but he never had a chat with me -

let’s put it that way.

So …

maybe he has had a chat

with people like Koteeswaran or

Srinivasan,

it might have been.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah.

You - you had a - a - a warden

for your hostel.

Yes, yes.

Do you know …

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] what? [Mr. Ramachandra] think

for Cauvery it was.

Yeah.

At least the first year,

Yes.

the Head of the Department of

Chemical - Chemical Engineering.

Venkateswarlu.

Yes.

D. Venkateswarlu.

Professor Venkateswarlu,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Professor Venkateswarlu.

Yes.

Am I correct?

Yes,

because, in my yes

he was a warden for the first year

of the Cauvery hostel.

Whether he was for all the years

that I studied, I can’t remember,

but certainly first year

maybe even - maybe in 2 years.

Because we finished 2 years in

in Saidapet.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Saidapet, yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] And, then we

came here.

Yes.

So, in the - in my third year of study,

he was the warden.

Yeah.

And whether he was also

in the fourth year of study,

I don’t remember.

What was

the academic pressure like -

what - how many exams

did you have to write and … ?

I think there were about -

we didn’t have a semester system,

I think you must be knowing that.

Yes, for

for you it was the

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] annual year system. [Mr. Ramachandra] Full year

[Mr. Ramachandra] annual year. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And from beginning.

So, like, say from like July till

the next May or June

when the year ended,

probably, we had 2 or 3 in between

and then a final exam

and …

There - there was a

system of surprise periodicals

at some point.

Yeah, yeah sometimes

but there were not

too many of those.

There were some

and not in all subjects;

in some subjects.

What I remember about exams is

because there were 2 or 3 tests

in between,

so, the material was not for

the whole year,

[Mr. Ramachandra] but it was lesson, you know, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

just like in the semester system also

yeah,

you have only half the material

Yes.

if you take a full course

for 2 semester.

So, I - I didn’t find the material

as a - as such too much or anythingm

but you find sometimes a topic

which you don’t understand so well.

So, I can’t remember

specifically

that there was a excessive pressure

because of the material,

but sometimes a

a certain topic in a subject

was difficult

and that required

additional study or consultation

with either another

peer

another student or

you have to go to the

professor

or lecture and then,

you know, have a separate

discussion on that.

Yes.

But I -

I don’t particularly remember

that I had a problem with

the amount - volume of study

that had to be done.

Anyway,

I used to wake up very early,

I should wake up at 4 o’ clock or

so 4, 4:30

Yes.

to study for

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I see. [Mr. Ramachandra] exams yeah.

I see.

And then 1 week or 2 weeks

in advance,

I would start

waking up early

so that - it - some extra hours

were made available,

yeah, yeah.

But I was - compared to

some other students

in one of my -

one of the students

in my corridor made a

joke actually,

when I came -

when we came

for the golden jubilee celebration.

Yes.

I didn’t know

tha - that I was doing it

but he noticed it

that I was one of those

who slept very early

by 10, 10:30

my - there were no lights

in my room.

But he also knew that

I was an early riser by 4, 4:30

whereas the other students

woke up a bit late

and studied till midnight.

Yes.

And,

yeah it's a question of

choice what you do,

I was trained at home

you know

in - by my parents to wake up early.

Yes.

Because that’s when the

brain is fresh

after some rest, so.

Yes.

But, there are others

who were night -

they like to study

more at night,

they - it's - it's very

person-dependent.

That’s right.

And that man who made a joke

that student -

"Oh, Ramachandran

you are the great guy

who slept at 10 o’ clock.

I said what is so great about -

I should wake up early,

Yes.

I compensated.

That’s right.

Yeah,

when I was in the golden jubilee

[Mr. Ramachandra] I was - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

He was - he was always a

humorous person.

[inaudible] 2, 3 rooms away

[Mr. Ramachandra] yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes,

going on a different tack,

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] what was the

kind of fees

that students had to pay

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in those days? [Mr. Ramachandra] 300

300 for -

Per year.

Very -

Yes.

Peanuts

for the kind of study

we get - it -

That’s it. Yeah.

300 in all.

That’s it, yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Did you have to

have hostel fees to be paid

or

do you know

how much that was

above this?

Tuition was 300 rupees.

Yes.

Whether the 300 became more

in the fifth year,

I can’t remember.

Yes.

It might have slightly increased,

but nothing dramatic.

It was really very very economical.

That’s right.

And …

hostel

what I remember is

my dad is to send

the first 1 or 2 years

50 rupees a month.

Yes.

And, later

I was getting 75 rupees per month

and I can’t remember that

I paid anything for the hostel.

Those were - that

money was meant for

you know mess,

canteen

and little bit of pocket money

to go to movie or going out

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] and

take eat in a restaurant or something.

Yeah.

But I can’t remember that

there was any hostel fees.

Maybe, maybe

you know, also.

Well, it subsequently

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] be - in my - in my period in the '80s, [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

we did have a separate

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] hostel bill.

Ok.

and that was based on a

a daily rate.

Ok.

For per day would be …

I - I -

5 rupees or so.

In my time by the '80s,

it was 12 rupees or so.

Sorry,

you know, you're right

it was about 8 rupees.

But I - I - I begin to

I don’t believe

I paid any hostel fees.

You know.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] And, it's [Mr. Ramachandra] But maybe

some of my classmates will

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] confirm

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] whether

I am right or wrong.

Yes,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] In so far as I remember,

I have not paid any hostel fees.

I see.

Ok.

You know, at - the - the whole thing

was very very economical, studies

yeah.

I think it's all

Government Of India money.

That’s true,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Taxpayers' money.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

So,

do you have recollections of the

the inaugural - inauguration

of the institute

the 31st July,

when it was formally

started?

Regretfully, no.

I can’t remember, no,

I don't have, you know, the slightest idea

what happened at that time.

[Mr. Ramachandra] It’s more than 55 years ago. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

That’s right.

You know, you know, some people might have remembered

but I didn’t.

I don’t even remember who did it actually,

Lal Bahadur Shastri had come?

Humayun Kabir.

I'm sorry?

Humayun Kabir.

Humayun Kabir okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, Humayun Kabir.

Yes, yeah.

Yesterday, I had seen it in the photos.

Yes.

Now, maybe I remember Humayun Kabir,

but I can’t remember anything of that event.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Apparently, a foundation stone was laid. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

We have that stone now at the Heritage Centre.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Ok. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] On - on display here.

Now, once you mentioned Humayun Kabir,

I - I - I kind of remember that something like that

I have attended

but what I can’t remember is what exactly happened.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] You know the the rest of the proceedings

I don’t remember.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] So, then in 1961, according to our records,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] the first buildings on campus were opened [Mr. Ramachandra] Right.

for - you know, for teaching or for staying in.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] So, you went to Cauvery Hostel.

Cauvery hostel.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

And that of course,

made moving to classes

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] and back much easier. [Mr. Ramachandra] Very easy - much easier.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Very comfortable.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah.

So, according to what we know, the first classes

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] were all held in the Building Sciences Block. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes,

[Mr. Ramachandra] correct. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] What is today the

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] BSB. [Mr. Ramachandra] Civil engineering.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, the [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Civil Engineering Department. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah, yeah,

that’s true.

But very soon thereafter

electrical engineering department was also ready

whether it is 3 months, 6 months or 1 year I don’t know.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] But I don’t believe it's more than a year.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Within a year or so, electrical engineering department -

that’s where my classes were -

that came up, yeah.

Were there any signs of plenty of construction going on

because everything was trying to be built

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in a short period. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah … Yeah, yeah.

D'you have - do you remember that?

The - the impression I carried then and even now

is it could have been faster,

let’s put it that way.

I - I had that impression

and I don’t know what the - what the constraints were,

what the limitations were,

but the - the impression I did

get is that it could have been faster.

But I am sure there were reasons

you know, there were some constraints and

I am not familiar with them.

I - I recollect seeing there was a

shortage of cement possibly or

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] is it steel?. [Mr. Ramachandra] Could have been. Yeah, yeah. In those days, that is.

At some point yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] In those days, oh yeah, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

now that you mention, everything was in shortage.

And, cement was allocated literally

[Mr. Ramachandra] you know, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I see.

yeah, by the government you know

and that might have been a reason.

Yeah and I might have remembered

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I might have known that at that time [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

but now I have forgotten.

But … I still felt how long is it going to take, you know.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, like that yeah.

But as I said, you know, the reason it

tooks some more time

there must have been good reasons for it.

We just as students didn’t know them, all of them

Yes, that’s right.

Well, we have … we see what it was to be

a student from writings that your colleagues have,

your batch mates have written in the Annual Number

which you see in front of you and

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Campastimes and so on.

So, we understand that there was a

strong emphasis on extracurricular activities …

Yeah, I mean.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] from day 1. [Mr. Ramachandra] There were facilities provided.

From day 1. Yeah

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] There were good facilities provided.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] I mean like you know table tennis

[Mr. Ramachandra] and then tennikoit. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

Tennikoit is something very unique to

Tamil Nadu actually.

[Mr. Ramachandra] I never played it, I came from Gujarat. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And, then ball badminton,

ball badminton is also very unique to Tamil Nadu.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I see. [Mr. Ramachandra] I have never played it before

and even here I didn’t play after coming

because that ball is coming at such a high speed;

you have to have a - you know, you should play it for

a long time before you get the hang of it

but I was playing shuttle.

Shuttlecock I could play,

I could play table tennis, I even played cricket.

I played carrom.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] I think chess if I am not mistaken,

what are … now I - we were actually quite busy with games.

So, after we came, it -

there was more opportunities for relaxation.

So, I mean if you don’t like

[Mr. Ramachandra] let’s say badminton but you like tennikoit. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes

There they were called courts for tennikoit

and I - I - I think there were later even courts for tennis,

but when they came, I don’t remember.

I was never, I never played tennis,

but cricket ground was there

and we played cricket, Koti used to play

[Mr. Ramachandra] everywhere. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Were these located around the Cauvery hostel?

Not too far away; no, not Cauvery hostel

but not too far away from where we are staying,

[Mr. Ramachandra] exactly where I forgot now. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

In fact, I - very many evenings

[Mr. Ramachandra] I played tennikoit with Srinivasan, [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes.

with Mahadevan, that’s also way of making friends.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right. [Mr. Ramachandra] Oh, there is another person called B. Gopalakrishnan.

He is from Civil Engineering,

he was a very close friend of mine.

Yeah.

Even he might have become friend even in the first year.

Very nice person, very decent gentleman

even in those days also.

One of the most decent persons I met, yeah.

There - there was more competitive sports as well

in the sense that there were inter IIT sports

coming up. [Mr. Ramachandra] Right, right.

So, did you represent the institute?

I was not good in any any of them to be able to do that,

[Mr. Ramachandra] you know, like table tennis I played for fun. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

But the real good ones were others

[Mr. Ramachandra] like Srinivas Nageswar. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And - and also S. Gopalakrishnan.

[Mr. Ramachandra] They were good in table tennis. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] yes.

In cricket I was

I have played a match: inter-class match.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] I think my class against another class.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] But, nothing against an another IIT.

Because, you know, for to play against another IIT

you have to choose everybody who is already

[Mr. Ramachandra] available in the all the classes of IIT. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Not just my class [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] but all the years. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right.

And then you get maybe about 5 - 600 students

or more

and they are much better players you know.

Then there was a sportsman by name Dominic.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, he was very good. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Jacob Dominic.

[Mr. Ramachandra] He was very good at hockey. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, right.

I think he was good in hockey and also in

ball badminton, he was an amazing player.

Ball badminton.

[Mr. Ramachandra] He is right now in the US, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Ok.

Also, again a very nice person, you know.

We - we understand he was a

an all rounder as sportsman.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah he - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I think.

[Mr. Ramachandra] ball badminton, what else he played,

[Mr. Ramachandra] maybe the normal badminton also. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

But I can’t remember if he played cricket,

[Mr. Ramachandra] that I don’t know hockey, yes he played. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Hockey.

[Mr. Ramachandra] I think so, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, right.

There was a hockey team.

There was another person called Chandy, Chandy.

[Mr. Ramachandra] But, he is a one class, one batch lower. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

He was very good in hockey.

Yeah, hockey.

And IIT Madras of course, was

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] started with German assistance. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

So, we know that there were

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] German technicians and professors. [Mr. Ramachandra] Professors yeah.

here … on campus.

So, do you have recollections of their

classes or interacting with them?

Well of course, nobody forgets Dr. Koch.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] K-o-c-h.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Koch.

Now, I have to be - if I will be very frank and honest about it,

I had difficulty in following every German professor.

And the reason was

it may sound as if I'm blaming somebody else

but they they were not be - able to express

that - their thoughts -

in English in a proper way.

And … because I had - I did very well in nearly

all courses taught by Indian professors.

but I had difficulty in following the German professors.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right. [Mr. Ramachandra] I was - I had difficulty also to take notes.

And they did not have a - a specific textbook

which they say ok,

this is what you will find in that textbook

go and take it.

So, they would sometimes give a handout

you know, and even those handouts should be also crisp

and sort of paraphrasing or summarizing,

not explaining in detail.

So, I was one of those - maybe there were more students like me

but I certainly had problem with any subject

where I cannot have a proper textbook.

and where you have to learn only from the professor

and if he himself doesn’t explain very well,

and you cannot take very good notes -

I was not able to take good notes also.

So, in that - in that area, Srinivasan, Mahadevan - they helped me.

You know, for - I would go to them and

[Mr. Ramachandra] and take the notes from them - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

they helped me.

Without those - that help, I would have had great difficulty.

But the - the difficulty I had was also that

there were no textbooks which were say, ok,

now you go and read this material in that particular textbook.

So, I had … I was kind of and I - I - I think in

one of those courses offered by them, I got an A or

… I'm not sure if I got an S,

I might have got an A,

but in the others, I got a B, I think mainly

and from third year onwards,

I got almost all subjects A and S.

[Mr. Ramachandra] But these were these professors were mainly. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] The S being the top grade.

[Mr. Ramachandra] S being the top grade yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

S was super or

something like that

and … now I don’t know what it is

the system is different, is it, today?

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] System is changed. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, little, yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] A there was.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] A, B there was A, S, A, B, C.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] S was the highest,

but from third year onwards, I think

I got almost no Bs or very few.

But, in the first two years I had a couple

and that were also in - in the courses

offered by the German professors,

certainly in those I think, maybe

in one I got - might have got anybody,

I am not - I don’t remember; so, a long time.

So, another thing is there is another aspect to it.

We were all children actually,

I mean we are - 17 year old is not really an adult.

When I joined, I was 16 years or 6 months or something.

So, what happens is boys or girls of that

age some of them are already mature

[Mr. Ramachandra] to the point where they can they come here to study. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

They know their duty as a student

and the - and the promise they made to their parents,

that they will do their best and they are able to keep it

and they were able to focus no matter

how a professor presents the material.

There are others who are little bit more childlike.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Do you understand what I mean?

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Little bit more like children.

You mean they need guidance,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] more guidance? [Mr. Ramachandra] No, they their mind starts wandering.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Ah, yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Because.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] The material is at the - at not being explained

in the manner that they can appreciate

and then the mind starts wandering

and they are not able to control it,

they're not able to focus on what’s going on -

I was one of them.

Because, my mind would start wandering

if the material presented was not clear

and not in a manner that I would have liked.

It did not hold your attention.

[Mr. Ramachandra] It did not hold my attention. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, that was my problem.

So, it could have been …

and the combination of both -

the way the material was -

I was not mature maybe, at that age.

Because, if I look at my career later

you know, I think if I look back,

I might have understood it better

if I'd focused on it more, if I'd concentrated,

but I was unable to do it, yeah.

So, but I am nothing

I mean I - I got through those - that period,

but those were the subjects which

[Mr. Ramachandra] presented the maximum challenges for me. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

Not those taught by Indian professors,

they were all for me straightforward.

Were you involved in the NCC activities

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in - on campus? [Mr. Ramachandra] No, no, I was not.

And, the campus itself was of course,

a different kind of campus because

[Mr. Ramachandra] It was still big. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] so much of it was forest and

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] it had not been built upon.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] So, what do you recollect of that campus?

Exactly what you said: lot of forest,

[Mr. Ramachandra] hardly any buildings. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] And we had to walk a long distance to the main gate [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

to catch a bus or a or a taxi or whatever.

So, but all those things it never bothered us

you know, at that age

[Mr. Ramachandra] we sort of took it all in our stride. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

That we said: :Okay,

we've to walk for 40 minutes or 30 minutes,

what is there?" like that. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right.

And, most of the thing is - of course,

we saw lot of deer even those days,

you know, spotted deer and all of that

and sometimes of course, we would feel: oh

if the tranfortation was bit better,

like you know, more buses came or things like that.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Buses started coming actually. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

But … because for the weekend

we would always stay inside,

the (campus); I never went out of the campus

in - except on weekends

[Mr. Ramachandra] and also not all weekends [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] because I have a lot of relatives in Chennai. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, I used to go maybe once in 2 weekends

[Mr. Ramachandra] or so, to stay with them. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

On Friday night or so, I would go,

but some people went every weekend

[Mr. Ramachandra] because like Koteeswaran, his family is here. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

You know he is from Chennai.

So, his parents are also here.

So, he went every weekend

whereas, in my case uncle, aunt, like that.

So, I didn’t go every weekend.

So, you know the main thing about the campus was

it was very nice in terms of greenery,

very quiet,

the roads were kind of still kutcha roads,

not all roads were still, you know, paved the way they are.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] They are - they are now fantastic here.

Everything is kept very well now, so.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] Quality of maintenance is tip-top

right now, yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Were there actually just tracks there, mud tracks, [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

[Mr. Ramachandra] in those days? [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I mean, mud tracks;

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] basically, majority … at least

half of them were mud tracks

[Mr. Ramachandra] and so, when there was rain, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

it was slushy, it was kind of, yeah.

Your trousers would get dirty

[Mr. Ramachandra] and things like that. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, that’s right.

Yeah, but at - in that age

[Mr. Ramachandra] we don’t bother about those things. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right.

Sometimes you will get annoyed but mostly not.

And, during the monsoons, it can rain quite heavily.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Sure yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right.

But yeah, I mean, we - we still loved to be here

let’s put it that way,

[Mr. Ramachandra] we enjoyed being here. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right, yes.

Was the city also remote in that sense

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] in those days, because it has grown a lot now. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] So, to reach - [Mr. Ramachandra] It was a -

go from here to where your relatives were,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Well,- [Mr. Ramachandra] did it take time?

I would - I would - I had - until the - I know the buses came

when I was staying in the hostel -

whether it was the fourth or fifth year I can’t remember -

but at least for 1 or 2 - 1 year minimum, maybe one and half,

2 years I should walk to the gate

and from there, I would take either an auto or a … or a taxi;

[Mr. Ramachandra] those days Madras taxis were also there, I mean, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

I'm not talking about Uber or Ola,

but the normal taxis,

[Mr. Ramachandra] like in Bombay there are there yellow-top taxis. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, here also we had those kind of taxis,

but they were mostly Ambassadors here.

And while coming back also I had come home,

I had come right up to the hostel by taking a taxi.

So, I mean, the - the accessibility was bit of a problem,

but you have to plan it that’s all, I mean, that means

if you want to reach somewhere, you've to plan minimum 1 hour

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] or 1 hour, 20 minutes.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That’s right. [Mr. Ramachandra] That’s - I mean -

so, apart from that I mean it’s just a 30 minutes walk,

[Mr. Ramachandra] I mean, in that age, you know, walk - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] nobody bothers about [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

30 minutes walk, yeah.

And of course, telephones were -

[Mr. Ramachandra] Not there. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] far fewer, practically not there.

No, no, not there.

They were not there.

There was actually in the - in the warden’s -

[Mr. Ramachandra] there was a warden’s office [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

in the ground floor of Cauvery.

There was a telephone there,

[Mr. Ramachandra] so … I hardly meet made use of it. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

Some people, maybe you know, made use of it to call their parents

or if they were not going to come or they were delayed -

I never made use of it

[Mr. Ramachandra] but I know there was a telephone there. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Assistant warden’s office, I think that was. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

There were also person who was there kind of 24 hours,

a caretaker or whatever; of course, Venkateswarlu -

Dr. Venkateswarlu was not there all the time,

but there was somebody else.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes … in 1962,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] apparently the Open Air Theatre was inaugurated. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes, yes.

And, the first use it was made of was to receive the

the German president, President Lübke.

Yeah, yeah.

And was that an - an incident that you remember?

Very vaguely, very vaguely.

I can’t give too many details of that,

but what you say, yeah, that part I remember,

[Mr. Ramachandra] but not much more, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] no, no. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

What I do remember about the Open Air

[Mr. Ramachandra] Theatre is we used to go there for movies. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] They were screened [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

I think, once a week or something like that.

So, we used to go there for that.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right. [Mr. Ramachandra] But since I was not a very good sportsman,

[Mr. Ramachandra] so, I haven’t played there inside the stadium or anything - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

any game or something like that.

And once you came to your departmental courses,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] was it in the Electrical Sciences Building that you had [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] your classes, all your classes? [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah,

all of them in the Electrical, yeah,

[Mr. Ramachandra] I mean, the electrical engineering courses were there [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

but even then, at that time we had some maths course I think

and then we had to go to some other building

but all the electrical engineering courses

were in that building only.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yes. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] So, were the German test equipment and so on

[Mr. Ramachandra] Those were all fine. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] installed right

there in the beginning? Yeah.

I mean, they came in, you know, in - in - in a certain speed.

Whether they were all available

when we needed them, I can’t remember

but they were coming at - at regular intervals,

the equipment.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] I remember, there is a … High Voltage Lab [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes.

in which there you could have a electrical discharge by

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yes, yes. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] just raising the voltage.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Was that an early piece of equipment,

was it there in your time?

I think it was,

because there was a course on that

I mean, related to high voltage,

but 100 percent I am not sure.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, most probably it was but [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right.

I can’t remember.

Who - who were your teachers from your department,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] can you name some of them? [Mr. Ramachandra] Professor Sampath.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] He - as a matter of fact, I took

I was in Heavy Current

where, you know, these transformers, high voltage

[Mr. Ramachandra] and then this electric distribution - transmission - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah.

distribution transformers, motors, electrical generation

all of that was taught,

I will - unfortunately I made the wrong choice;

I should have taken electronics

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] that is what - it used to be called LC - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] LC.

but Professor Sampath taught a course

in third year on electronics

and that inspired me to move, get out of my

whatever field I was in

[Mr. Ramachandra] to the field that I wanted to go [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] because his presentation was superb. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And the same of V. G. K. Murti,

[Mr. Ramachandra] Professor V. G. K. Murti. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

P. Venkat Rao, very - I mean

P. Venkat Rao tended to be very fast.

You have to be you can’t even -

you can’t let your eye even blink.

I see.

The speed at which he was talking

was amazing

but still it was presented in a manner that, no problem,

I mean it was enjoyable to

[Mr. Ramachandra] learn from him. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

V. G. K. Murti was top class,

Sampath also.

And, then Professor Sampath and then, of course,

there was Mr. Ramaswamy.

[Mr. Ramachandra] He was also - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] B. Ramaswamy.

[Mr. Ramachandra] B. Ramaswamy. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

He was a good lec - he was - at that time was a lecturer

and then he became assistant professor,

I - I believe he even became a head of the department

at some point

but his presentation of the material was very good

but it was not like - he was not an inspiring teacher -

but he was good, he would give the technical details nicely,

whereas, Sampath - Mr. Sampath - Professor Sampath

and V. G. K. Murti and P. Venkata Rao,

they are inspiring speakers.

[Mr. Ramachandra] I think they had that skill [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

which not everybody has.

[Mr. Ramachandra] They were gifted. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right.

Yeah, yeah, and therefore, everybody enjoyed then,

there is not a single person who will have a different opinion

you know, on these

on these professors, across the board, you know.

Yes, yes.

I didn’t have of course, courses of Professor Achuthan

because that was in LC -

electronics -so, I can’t say anything about it

but these three I loved them actually, yeah, yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] So ... [Mr. Ramachandra] It’s a pity I didn’t keep in

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] touch with them, yeah.

So, you ... did you receive your degree here - to -

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] did you come here to collect

[Mr. Ramachandra] I came. I came to - [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] to collect your degree?

Yeah, yeah, I came - came -

because when, you know, it was said that

[Mr. Ramachandra] Dr. Radhakrishnan is going to come [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, I said that is a lifetime - once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

So, I did come, yeah -

only I came, my parents didn’t come.

[Mr. Ramachandra] I think in some cases some - the parents also came. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] But in my case, only [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right.

I came, yeah, yeah.

So, what happened after IIT, what did you do ? What -

Well, actually I had no plans to go abroad or anything.

I just took a job in with Siemens in - actually there

there was a job, a very short job I took before

I joined Siemens in a company

which makes transformers in Bombay

but it - it was having a factory in the place

where there's a lot of flooding at the time of rains.

I worked in that company for 2 weeks

[Mr. Ramachandra] and then I got an interview call from Siemens [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

and I was selected by Siemens,

so, I quit after 2 weeks.

So, my first job is actually of 2 weeks

and the next one at Siemens a bit more than 1 year,

the idea was - I was - I was [inaudible] between

marketing people and the factory.

So, I had to deal with customers:

their questions related to the factory.

So, I had worked for 1 year in that Siemens company,

[Mr. Ramachandra] you know that is a German company, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

you know, but I was not happy

because that - it did not require any of my

technical knowledge to be applied.

I did talk to my boss after 3 months or 6 months

that I would like to go into - into another department,

where they do some design work

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] where there's more engineering -

my engineering knowledge can be applied

and - he said yeah we will do it.

But you know, somewhere at that around that time

my brother and I - my brother was very keen to go abroad

so, he also stimulated me to the U.S. - to go to U.S.

and study there.

So, I started applying for the - for going to the U.S.

and so, see I - I started working maybe

in the beginning of '64 March, April, May -

I can’t remember anymore -

but then, by the end of - by October, November '64,

I was already busy applying for - you know, to go abroad

to - only to the U.S.,

[Mr. Ramachandra] I did not apply to any other country [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] like UK or so. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And ... and that, the reason was also because

most of my professors in Electrical Engineering Department

they were all from the U.S.,

[Mr. Ramachandra] Professor Sampath had studied in Stanford. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

V. G. K. Murti in University of Illinois,

so ... and ... I felt - I also felt that

that might suit my, you know, character,

[Mr. Ramachandra] the - that type of courses offered there. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

UK ... also, UK takes longer to get a masters,

U.S. is - you know, you can do it in 1 year

or 1 year and 3, 4 months like that,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] UK usually 2 years.

So, so I applied in the - at the end of 2000 -

beginning of '65 or maybe around by April,

May, I had applied to several universities,

3 of them and I got admission in 2.

one of them I think they didn’t give me because

there was the - at that time

they were asking us to take a GRE test.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] G - and also English language test.

And somehow, I was - I may be the

only student who did that,

I - I wrote to them that I feel that I - I'm

from a very good institution, premier institution,

IIT Madras and I explained to them

[Mr. Ramachandra] because Americans might not know [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] what IIT is. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And, in those days '65,

I explained to them how, you know, this is a Government Of India

initiative with the German government blah blah blah.

So, my explanation of the IIT was probably 1 full page

and then I also said: look I have a -

these are the my grades and I feel that

there is no reason for me to be tested again with the GRE.

So, I think the University of Illinois,

they didn’t accept my argument

but Berkeley accepted it.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah, yes. Alright. [Mr. Ramachandra] University of California, Berkeley.

So, I didn’t do any GRE

and similarly the English language test

that was compulsory.

Now, there also what I did is I got-

see I have studied everything in English

even from my KG in - in Christian school

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] in Ahmedabad.

And then a 1 year of college pre-university

in - in Ahmedabad that was also, everything in English,

then IIT was in English.

So, what I did is I wrote to my

principal of the school and the principal of the Saint Xavier's

College where I did my PUC

asking them for a testimonial,

a certificate saying that I can understand English,

I can speak English and I am very - I'm fluent in English

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] and that I can follow a course in the U.S.

without any difficulty.

I - I send a request also to

the head of the Department of Humanities here, IIT.

[Mr. Ramachandra] There was a Krishnamurthy I think, one Mr. Krishnamurthy. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Am I correct? [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

Krishnamurthy, he was also very good in English,

I think it was Professor Mr. Krishnamurthy in my time.

I - I remember the name but -

[Mr. Ramachandra] You know, head of the department. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. Yes. I do not know if it was ...

I - I requested him saying, I even

actually, told him what he has to write.

I said: please mention these things

in the testimonial that I have

studied everything in IIT in English

and my fluency is good enough

to take - to follow any course in any

in any American university.

He gave me a nice testimonial

and from Ahmedabad I got out of two places

that I requested, I got one

the other one I don’t know they didn’t reply, respond.

I - I sent those two to Berkeley

to all the three universities which I applied,

Berkeley accepted it.

So, I didn’t take any an English language

[Mr. Ramachandra] test which everybody else did. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] I didn’t. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah. Take the GRE also.

So, that was a very - it - it was a kind of a

what I thought is in case they insist on it,

I will still take i but let me try it

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] yeah, and if they insist, I can always take it.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right. [Mr. Ramachandra] So, then I went abroad to the U.S., studied,

I worked for one ... I did my M.S. in Electrical Engineering

[Mr. Ramachandra] and then I ... started working the chips industry. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] You're familiar with the chips industry, I'm sure. [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes.

It so happened that one of the courses that I was taking

in Berkeley was taught by a visiting lecturer

from the East Coast

[Mr. Ramachandra] from Maryland. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] and Berkeley is in the - in California, West Coast. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, that gentleman a - a - a Chinese actually.,

he - when he finished the course,

he asked all of us if - those who want to

come and work in that company on the East Coast

please come and see me. So, I went there and - and

two other Indians also went

and he gave us an application form and he signed it

saying, so that he can recognize

[Mr. Ramachandra] when the application form comes there. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

That it has been given to his student by him.

So, I fill it and send it and then

I got - he asked me to come for an interview and I took a job,

when I had a job in California also

and most of my Berkeley friends, Indian friends,

they chose not to get out of California.

They felt California is the - the best place to live

[Mr. Ramachandra] and in Maryland the winters can be severe. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, he said- they even asked me: why are you going there?

I was the only person who left,

I said no, because I like this man,

the gentleman is a very experienced person

so, I I think I can learn more from him,

whereas, in California my

when I - I got a job with - in - in one company

and my - the person who might have been my boss

or who would have been boss

was probably 3, 4 years older than me.

So, he certainly was more knowledgeable in that field,

but the one in the other company where I went to

[Mr. Ramachandra] he was at least 20 years more older than me [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

and he is extremely experienced,

[inaudible] later I found out - I didn’t know it;

when I took the job I didn’t know,

that he had already published 25 newspaper - papers

in - in different journals on chips.

He had 25 patents also, U.S. patents.

[Mr. Ramachandra] So, you know, I was lucky to go and work for somebody [Mr. Ramachandra] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] who is so knowledgeable. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, for me, it - it was not important to stay in California

but it was more important to go to somebody

[Mr. Ramachandra] from whom I can learn. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, yes.

So, while I was working there then I went to

Johns Hopkins University,

there is a university called Johns Hopkins

in - and there I took ... I did evening course

and took a second master's in management science

because from a very young age

I wanted to go get into management

not into - into research.

I wanted to start in research,

do some development work,

but my aim was to go into senior executive position

because my dad was a senior executive

in textile mills and I - I was sort of

[Mr. Ramachandra] wanted to emulate him. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] You wanted to follow him. [Mr. Ramachandra] Follow his

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] footsteps. Yeah.

So, I said a management degree would help,

an MBA might also have helped

but this was slightly different

but it was still a management degree.

So, and that helped me also

later when I worked for Philips.

So, so, I went - I worked in the U.S. for about 3 and half years,

then I came back to India

[Mr. Ramachandra] with the intention to settle down [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

but it didn’t- I got married at that time ...

I didn’t - after a few months in Ahmedabad

because that’s where my parents were living -

I got a job in Pune.

A very short - I mean

a job in a very small company,

but they were assembling chips

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] in transistors. Not chips mostly transistors

and they said they will start making chips

sometime in the future

but they didn’t know what they were talking about

because to make chips you need a lot of investment

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] which that company was not capable of doing

but I took the job and because I had nothing else to do

and I didn’t want to sit at home.

And I said: okay, as a first job I'll take it

and then I will see further;

I was also offered an opportunity by

one gentleman to start a company in Ahmedabad.

In fact, he was the managing director

of the company where my father was working.

So, and he said that I would like you to start a company,

I'll do all the negotiations with the Gujarat government

or central government for the licenses and everything else,

so, you don’t - you won’t be bothered about

all those bureaucratic matters,

you just develop a product and then, you know.

But somehow I was not very comfortable

being an entrepreneur, I don’t think I'm an

I didn’t feel I was an entrepreneur.

I was more like a person who worked for a big company.

So, I didn’t take that opportunity.

And then, actually, when I was working

in that small company in Pune,

I read ... article in a - in a trade magazine

that Philips is going to start manufacturing chips

in India. In India.

And so, I sent my application to that

managing director of Philips India.

So, he is the biggest boss in Philips India

and then he called me for interview.

And after the interview, I was - I was told that well,

you seem to have the qualifications

and you could - you will be the first employee,

but ... you need to go to Holland for an interview

because we cannot judge,

they are not - they had no exposure to chips

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] technology. Yes.

So, I went to Holland for 1 week

for interview and they selected me

and they said that - actually they told me

the management of Philips India is saying that

they want you to be here for 4 years

and then they want you back,

but we want you to be here in Holland forever

because we - your background is very suited

for the work which we are doing here.

So, we would like you to be in Holland

but if you choose to go back after 4 years

that’s your decision.

So, so, I - what I did is I - I did

decide to come back to India,

because my - my goal was to settle in India.

So, after three and a half years

I decided, in - in Holland, I decided

I was working in the chips industry there with Philips

I want to go back to India. So, I told them to give me

a job and then Philips India -

I wrote to the management of Philips India -

they offered me a job in Pune

as a development manager,

but in a different environment, not in the chips industry

but in an electronics equipment industry

[Mr. Ramachandra] where, you know, you must be knowing oscilloscopes right? [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] And digital multimeters. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, if you want to measure voltage or current

instead of analog, with those needle,

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] there are digital multimeter.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] And then audio systems

if you want to have a - a big conference hall,

and there you have to install a big audio system,

professional type of thing - all those things

were being done in Pune

and they wanted an R and D manager.

So, Philips in India they said we are offering you that job,

we cannot offer you anything in chips

because the chips industry

[Mr. Ramachandra] the license did not come. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

The Government Of India was putting

so many conditions on Philips,

that Philips said: We will not start up for chips factory,

your conditions are not acceptable -

but I wanted to come back to India.

So, I decided that even if I don’t want

if I don’t get a job in chips in India,

I want to be in India.

So, I came back and so,

I came after four and half years or

[Mr. Ramachandra] 4 years and some months in Holland. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Holland.

I came back to India in Pune

and I worked for 5 years

and then then the story changes a bit.

After 3 years I got, got very disappointed with India.

At that time there was ... emergency, there's all

kinds of unrest in India.

It was not a pleasant time of ... in India

from '75 to '80.

and - and you know, I was also not very happy in the job

[Mr. Ramachandra] because chips was my passion. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] And, you have to work in a field [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

where you have a passion, and that equipment was okay,

but you know it is just a job, you know.

You don’t work only for a salary,

you work for something more than a salary.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] And I could not ...

my father was also very highly technically professional.

So, he saw that I was not doing the right thing.

So, he said: No, you go back to Holland or to the U.S.,

[Mr. Ramachandra] you also worked in the US, but don’t stay here. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And I had a technical director in Philips,

also a Tamilian, very nice person.

He knew me because he had -

during my stay in Holland,

he was also there, before he became a director

on the board of Philips India

his - his name is Venkatraman, S. Venkatraman.

He lives in Chennai, he is - he must be 87 now.

Venkatraman said, Mr. Venkatraman said:

Ram you have done work in chips,

even though I was under him;

of course, there was one manager between me and him

he said you don’t stay here,

you go - go to - go back to Holland.

He even said that and when my father

said and he also said,

I went back for my parents actually

you know, because they were getting old.

Then my father said: No, no, don’t stay for us,

you know, because you have to think about

yourself and your children.

So, it was not an easy decision

to leave the country at that time because I'm

first, I was there for 1 year between

U.S. and Holland, I was in India for 1 year

and then after going to Holland

[Mr. Ramachandra] I came back to India for 5 years. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

with very clear intent to stay in India

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Ok. [Mr. Ramachandra] but it didn’t work out

and maybe I could - if I had still

[Mr. Ramachandra] put up with all the inconveniences, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

I might have continued, but I felt that

it was not worth it.

In my perception, it was not worth it.

So, because I didn’t know

[Mr. Ramachandra] when things would get better. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

At that time it was looking so bleak,

it ... maybe it'd have been better in 3 years' time.

Maybe, you know, in 10 years' time - you don’t know

and the actual fact after I left

you know what happened,

Indira Gandhi was assassinated, you know,

many things happened which were not very nice in India,

unfortunate things happened.

And ... but anyway it is also destiny, you know, somewhere I felt

my mind - my thought process said that

if I have to worry about my future, the - my children’s future

and if things are so uncertain -

today, things are much better

you know, young and many IIT students don’t even go abroad.

They don’t go to the U.S. for studies.

But in - in 1975 to '80 when I was living in Pune,

[Mr. Ramachandra] things were not like that. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

Pretty bleak, actually.

Yes, there was a lot of migration to the U.S.

during my student days.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Practically everyone.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah. In my time not much. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] went to study or work in the U.S.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. [Mr. Ramachandra] I - I mean because, it was very early

[Mr. Ramachandra] going to the US. But, yes [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

you are right in your time almost 90 percent

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] went to - or 80 percent left. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

So, then in 1978, '79, I started looking

for a job in Holland or in the U.S.

and the management of Philips, you know,

they were kind enough because,

they'd seen my work in the previous

three and half - four years.

So, "You come back," they said. So, I got a job.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Right. [Mr. Ramachandra] So, that was.

So, you have been in Holland ever since.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Since 1980 uninterruptedly we have been in Holland. [Mr. Ramachandra] I see.

And we like that country,

[Mr. Ramachandra] it’s a small country. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

It’s a well managed -

it’s - it’s a kind of a democratic socialism.

And the - the ... what I like about democratic socialist countries is

that the income inequality is less

and the - there is income support for people

who cannot find good jobs.

So, if somebody, because of whatever reason

you know, if there are 100 people,

there might be 20 people in society - in any society -

who are unable to get proper jobs.

Now, we cannot leave them

with such a state of poverty

because that is - in a in a developed

country with a high level of per

capita income like in Holland,

they don’t tolerate poverty.

So, they say: well we had to do something.

So, the whole tax structure - structure -

everything else is such that

on the one hand there is capitalism,

there is a market economy with proper regulations,

at the same time there is income support for people who are not

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes. Yeah. [Mr. Ramachandra] doing well.

And then there is a skill training, reskillling.

of the people so that they get some job eventually

and that reskilling can take 6 months,

[Mr. Ramachandra] 1 year, even 3 years. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah, oh.

So, the - the purpose is that

there is no poverty. Of course, I don’t say

that that goal has been achieved,

there is maybe still about 3, 4 percent of the people who are poor

but relative to other countries

including the U.S., especially the US,

we have much less poverty.

We have better health care system

and ... there are many things

about it which - you cannot make plenty of money in Holland.

You can make decent money

but you can’t make as much money as in the US.

So, if you have somebody who's very talented

and the main thing was to do is

become a millionaire, multi-millionaire,

make a lot of money, then

Holland is not the place

but you can earn enough to have a good life.

Have you been in touch with IIT since going to Holland?

Unfortunately, not enough

now I regret it, but I did come in there

[Mr. Ramachandra] for the golden jubilee. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And that was a very good experience, I - I loved it.

Those 2 days were well-organized

you know all, I mean, how I should say

all kudos or you know, applause to

everybody who who did that.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes, sure. [Mr. Ramachandra] It’s a fantastic job.

Plus, in addition, I have

the opportunity to meet all my friends

[Mr. Ramachandra] who came back. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

And some of them I met only after ...

[Mr. Ramachandra] I mean, that was the only time I met after we left the IIT. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yes.

[Mr. Ramachandra] So, it was a great day, [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] That is 50 years, yes.

great fun, yeah, yeah.

So - and I should have come on that - for that 25th anniversary

because I was informed about it.

Mahadevan or Srinivasan one of them had informed

and for some reason I didn’t come, I can’t remember

but if I'd come I would have - I would have felt better,

yeah, yeah, sometimes you make mistakes

and then you regret it. Yeah, so, yeah.

But it would have been fun if I had come, really, yeah. So,

[Mr. Ramachandra] so am I - have I taken too much time? [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Yeah,

[Mr. Ramachandra] that is just fine. Thank you very much, sir, [Mr. Ramachandra] Yeah, yeah.

[Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] for having participated. [Mr. Ramachandra] Sure, sure sure.

No, I loved it and maybe I

talked a little bit too much.

No, it was just fine.

[Mr. Ramachandra] Thank you again. [Mr. Kumaran Sathasivam] Again, sure thank you.

I would like to first thank Mrs. Mamata Dash

and Mr. Kumaran, head of the

Heritage Centre for making it possible

for me to add a few things

to the interview which was taken of me

at the Heritage Centre, a few months back.

The reason I am doing this is because

I forgot to say a few things

and I would like to complete the interview by

saying these few things.

As far as my career in Holland is concerned,

starting from 1980,

I started as a manager of a small group of 6 engineers

and then moved up

as the general manager of a large

chip-manufacturing facility.

In fact, the 2nd largest

within Philips worldwide in Holland.

And, then I was further promoted as a

vice president of industrial strategy

and operations within the

semiconductor division of Philips.

At the time I had gone to Holland in 1980,

there were not too many Indians

and so, I did - did need to break the glass ceiling.

Since, the Dutch management of Philips

were - were not familiar with ... Indians

to that extent as they are now.

In the meantime, there are many Indians

who have come to Holland,

they are all highly qualified professionals

in different disciplines as engineers,

IT professionals, finance and accounting professionals,

programme managers and you name it.

And, you now have

no glass ceiling up to a very high level.

In fact, the chief financial officer

of Philips electronics at this moment

is of Indian origin

and his background is Chartered Accountancy.

Also the Chartered Accountancy degree, a qualification

which was not very much recognized

when I first went to Holland

is now very much appreciated

as one of the best accounting qualifications in the world.

And there are many many Chartered Accountants

in Holland, besides of course,

many engineers and IT professionals.

There are also all - all the universities in - in Holland

offer Master’s degree

and Ph.D. programmes in the English language

so, much so, that

some of the top universities have

500 to 800 Indian students

doing Master’s degrees and Ph.D. degrees

in engineering, in maths, physics,

and in different other disciplines.

There are also many universities which offer

high quality business programmes like

MBA and doctor of business management.

In all these universities, the programmes are

are all in English and in some universities

and quite a few of them

there are also bachelor’s degree programmes in engineering

and in business administration.

The tuition fees in Holland are a lot lot less

than in the U.S., though the quality of education within

every university in Holland is comparable to the

top 20 universities in the U.S.

As a consequence, I - I do notice that there are many

students who are now coming to Holland

for their further studies

and I hope that this will continue

in so, so far as social life is concerned

there are Indians of - coming from all the states

and that has made it also very interesting to live in Holland.

Finally, the work-life

balance in Holland is much better than in most countries,

the health insurance is of

the world-class quality

and the overall quality of life

is one of the best in the world.

The happiness index measured by the United Nations

in - for people living in different countries

has resulted in the conclusion

that the Scandinavian countries and some other countries plus

Netherlands, Netherlands are the best countries as far as

the happiness level with which people are living there.

These were the things which I wanted to say to -

because, it is not always known to

many Indians who are living in different parts of the world, especially in India.

The opportunities for top-quality professionals who have

already worked in India are very good there,

the company sponsors the these people who

who have good qualifications under

special visa considerations

and these visas are such that

within 5 years after arriving in Holland,

if they perform well as

top professional, can get permanent residence in Holland

and if he chooses to get the - the citizenship of Holland,

he can also get the citizenship

after 5 years of stay in Holland.

The only requirement is

before he gets the citizenship, he has to pass - he or she -

has to pass a simple Dutch language test.

Majority of the - the young people in Holland speak English,

in my time, the people of my generation

understood English but not all of them could speak it fluently.

Today, everybody is learning English

in high school and majority of them

are watching English language programmes

and all the younger people who are people

let’s say below 50, can speak and

understand English very very fluently.

These are the things which make life in Holland very interesting.

I thought I would add this

for the benefit of those who may not know these things.

Thank you very much.

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