Mrs. Mahalakshmi Gourishankar and Mrs. Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar in conversation with Sujatha Dube
Good morning, I am Sujatha
from the Development Office at IIT Madras
and I have the great honor
and pleasure this morning of interviewing
Mrs. Gourishankar. Her husband Mr. Gourishankar was
involved with IIT almost from the very beginning,
and his photographs and the memories
of Mrs. Gourishankar are part of IIT's heritage.
I am very happy to have this opportunity.
Good morning Mrs. Gourishankar,
Mrs. Viji, first of all thank you for this opportunity to talk to you.
Yeah. I would like to begin by asking
how did Mr. Gourishankar's association with IIT
and photography...all that began...begin.
Yeah, in 1960, I was away in Delhi, Viji was being on a...[Inaudible Dialogue]
and here, his friend Mr. R Natarajan was the Registrar here.
He said, "Gourishankar, why don't you come and take photos in IIT,
we are just started everything the building and all,
and Professor Sengupto will be very happy to be..."
because Professor Sengupto knew a lot about photography.
So, then in 1960 it started. First student’s associations, taking
the photos of the buildings, and then functions.
And then the convocation came.
So each convocation, he used to be called,
and then he used to cover those photos
that is how the association began, and Professor Ramaswamy
and others, Sampath and NCC leader Colonel Nair.
They all used to call him for the various photos
to be taken in their department.
So it was very little then, it had just shifted from Guindy
and the buildings were all under this thing.
And he used to come and take photos for them.
For the record, as Professor Sengupto said, "Right
from the beginning, to see that the trees are all there,
and the buildings are all coming and we are planting more trees"
and all. And he used to tell Gourishankar, how to take photos.
"Take this from the East, that from the West
and this building", you have to keep on saying right
from the ground this thing...foundation to the full building
that he used to do and all the occasions he used to come.
He was an amateur photographer or a
Yeah. Professional. Professional, ok
He was a professional photographer,
then he used to take industrial photography.
And his hobby was to take photos of the
temples and other monuments
Aand tourist spots in India that was his side,
but the main thing was, he was connect...as an industrial photographer.
He was taking photos for Guindy Engineering
and the the Guindy Machine Tools or the various companies
and industries in Madras, and also in Bangalore.
Ok. So, that is how he got connect to IIT.
IIT is one of the place he used to come and take photos.
How did his interest in photography begin?
Photography. He was always interested in photography.
Taking photos and he had a camera.
His father was a good photographer. Ok.
Even though there was no electricity in home
when he was married and came,
his father used to do developing at home.
Having the lights and all.
And he still had those red lights and all that you know.
My mother-in-law used to help my father-in-law.
And so, Gourishankar got interested in photography by his father,
because he used to take a lot of photos with his [Inaudible] camera
which he and his youngest sister Dr C. Minakshi.
Was a historian doing research work.
Under Professor Nilakanta Sastri.
So, my father-in-law used to go along with her to take photos
of all the thing, and till she received her Ph. D.,
he used to help her a lot with all the photos. Ok.
So, my husband was introduced in that way.
And when...I got married he bought his first Rolleiflex.
And he was having a very good hobby as a photographer.
And then geological survey...though he was interested in
geology a lot, he found that he could not...
the six months away from there, my mother-in-law was ill.
And he used to stay in camps and shift every ten days.
Then he resigned, and took up photography as a profession.
Ok. Till then it was a hobby.
Ok. In 1958 - '59 as he took it...the photography,
he started with IIT
that is how...in for...and he read about all photography.
He learned from every photographer. Right
from all the great famous photographers, and all their books
that is how he developed his knowledge about photography.
Do you know about his relationship with other famous photographers?
Yes. In
Yeah, in Madras.
All the photographers knew him.
And anyone in any interview,
They will say, "Do you know Mr. Gourishankar professional one?"
They all used to stand up.
Yes, you know its the (in Tamil) for our profession (in Tamil) an honour.
(In Tamil) after doing MA Geology, he's coming and doing what a photo...and he never stopped
taking its a perfect picture, that is what.
So all the studios and other people would come with to him.
Saying we couldn't get this photo will you please...
He...two or three days he will do.
And he will give them a very good picture,
and they will come and tell me,
"Mahalakshmi, I don't know, we couldn't get the photo
anywhere even G. K. Vale and others they could not do it.
And Gourishankar has taken a perfect picture."
So, that is how he learnt his photography, and to do difficult pictures.
How to tackle them and all. Right.
Even for IIT, there were many difficult pictures, he used to do them all.
That is how he learned photography.
And all the studios and other photographers
used to come home. They were all very good friends.
Ok. Just for learning.
For doubts, or for getting his comments
about their photos they all used to come.
We had very good relation with the...
Who were the other photographers ma, like Dr.
M. Krishnan, (in Tamil) and others like him...
His mentors and all. Yes.
M. Krishnan was his mentor.
He is a naturalist, and a photographer.
And he is very knowledgeable about photography
and he got fellowship Jawaharlal Fellowship and all.
Padma Shri and all.
He was a very good adviser for him
for any in...this thing concerned with photo...
And as he used to do still photography for his cousin.
R. N. Nagarajarao and other still photographers
[Inaudible] so, many people they all used to come
and he used to learn from them the still photography
this thing and the studios,
whenever they found any difficulty in any photos
or anything they used to.
Vaman Brothers, Madras Photo Store, G. K. Vale [incoherent]
They were all they...are very good friend
and we used to know them very well. Ok.
And we used to buy all the chemicals,
because everything was done at home.
All the developed...everything wow.
We had developed the dark room, and all the chemicals bought
and everything, those chemicals this thing also
people used to come. I have Krishnan's letters
and all, where he used to say, 'For this developer, for this stoning, for this...'
All the chemicals and all, they have learnt about so many other things
apart from photography, because they had to tackle different
Right. photos at different times, nature photography
and forest photography was M. Krishnan's thing. Ok.
So he learnt about that.
And all the...taking pictures of the statues
and taking pictures of the...each department here,
that was a real thing, some of them he had to bring out
they used to bring it out to the sunlight,
some of the...for...this thing he used to take home
and take...they all very well cooperated.
The buildings were just coming up. Yes.
Yeah that time.
They very well cooperated.
And the...the perfect background,
the perfect this thing, and the perfect camera.
He used to...and take the perfect picture. And
till he got the enlargement correct,
He never stopped. The negatives were prepared very well,
and then when the printing was done
the first picture, "No this can come better."
That is how he got the perfectionist title in photography.
Have you accompanied him on these photo shoots In IIT? Yes.
Everywhere everywhere. What what was IIT like in those days?
I just remembered 1961.
She was a baby.
We went to Professor Sengupto's house
the Directors Bungalow was very different then.
Now it is very different, and he used to come for all the functions.
Any function in IIT,
he used to come. She was a baby then,
few months old, but we bring her along.
And then when the...Viji was baby and Jayan, my son was born,
and they had school, I couldn't accompany him everywhere.
And there was always an assistant. Ok.
So he used to come
only for important occasion like convocation all, I used to come.
Or for any alumni this thing if they invited me
Rathindra Nath Roy this thing.
(In Tamil) What was Rathindra Nath Roy's friend's name?
They were all my alumni people.
They used to come, and when they invited we used to come
and see that plays dramas, everything. That
we enjoyed, inter-college plays and all. Everything
he will come...photography. Was that in OAT, was OAT there
In those days? OAT was...
After it came...afterwards there was no OAT before.
ok. After that only it came.
Everything came later it was
just plain jungle in '60-'61.
I remember '62,
it started. Professor Sengupto when he working,
and this thing...Professor Sengupto and Natarajan’s farewell...
everything we used to come when there was an occasion.
Otherwise, I never came to IIT very often
because Gourishankar always came with his assistant. Ok ok.
They used to to take photos I only helped him at home,
complete...apart from being a wife I was helping him in photography
in every way when he was doing development
and printing. Taking photos he used to come.
Developing printing I used to.
You used to Help him a lot
and that is how I knew about...
So that must have been very interesting for you to
learn...lot to... Very very interesting.
So, many people came.
They want to learn photography.
And some people who came, "Gourishankar
will you teach photography"...it can't be learnt in one day.
And he will advise them not to take up professional, leaving aside
other job because photography wasn't very well known those days.
As I said, as librarian and a photographer,
came up now, very very well.
Now they are all in very bigger.
after it became a library issue thing, with it...internet and all
and photography with the latest. Correct.
Those days it was not very well known. Ok.
Was he involved...I have heard that
he was involved with Campastimes did he used to write for...?
Yes, yes he was there proofreading in,
as a Roy Rathindra Nath Roy used to say,
"You will advise us at the batch...this thing...what used to come first
and whats the coming behind and what will come there."
And...the...give them all the advice about this thing.
Same thing ICC started and they published a thing,
he took photographs in all the departments.
And he found to his amazement that each department
didn't know what the other was doing.
He used to really complain to them that.
And then they came to know,
about the other, Gourishankar taught us,
see this is already there in the other department.
And when this the book was published I forget the name, ICC book...
they had a copy, but and then they run short that we gave it to him
and we had all the department photos in that
when it was started that's what...consultancy centre was started.
And then he used to help a lot.
Same way when German Consulate and this thing IIT and other people.
Had an exhibition here,
He was there throughout helping them.
Decide the space, arrange it, all that because
he had a good idea about the consistency, he was a very good artist.
Very good artist, that helped him a lot, to get the medal.
I think I had yes... German professors you...wanted blow ups
of the labs. Ok.
Because they developed the labs
Yes. You know.
In the institute, in the workshops. Et cetera.
So that...is he started doing 40 by 30 inches 60 by 40 inches you know.
And do you have those pictures?
The Heritage Centre if...
Has those pictures? Yes, they...
Mostly 40 By 30. ICC.
24 by 20, very few 60 by 40. Yeah.
And that is very different to a normal picture development? Yeah.
Yes You have to mount a enlarger. To still be clear when.
Yes. It is so, big.
You have to mount a enlarger on those...this thing loft. Loft.
And have the big trees huge.
Oh oh yeah, to...ok. Yes.
With a wooden this thing.
And the plastic sheet over it, we had...60 by 40 was very difficult.
The enlarger was up, and...was down
and three rooms were taken on for dark room. Yeah.
And all those pictures the German consulates only encouraged him
to do all the big pictures. All the German professors here Dr Hans Wagner,
Doctor Hans Wagner, Doctor...they all wanted him to do those.
Ok. Pictures for their record, to put up in the labs...the wall.
So, those pictures they took them? Are they still...? Yeah
exhibition took it...exhibition pictures were all here the German Consulate...[Indistinct Dialogue]
They they were different I think. (In Hindi) Oh, achcha
So. It might be with the German Consulate.
Probably. Ok.
Yes. Because the Heritage Centre's always looking for...I think...
Old I'll see...
pictures. old pictures with IIT photos (In Tamil) if it is there
(In Tamil) Please look if it is there. Photos. Yes.
They are all there. Yes.
It would be
Paper...yeah. Wonderful for them to
Yes. Have to.
Paper used to come in rolls,
and we used to cut and print them, I will find it when...[Overlapping Conversation]
Please, Ok ok.
For convocation also. (In Tamil) Yes.
He did with a lot of involvement you know. Yes.
He would attend the
rehearsals also. Ok, to plan the best way of...
[Indistinct Dialogue]
And then Jalakanteshwara...no rain
It was always July July always yes
So, he always used to come, three days rehearsal.
Who is coming, what all, and he used to enjoy hearing them talk and all.
Professor...Doctor J. R. D. Tata, and C. V. Raman
and Radhakrishnan...they all...all the dignitaries were here.
And some of them had visited IIT already.
All of them used to be there and the conversation and all,
and he loved the convocation...this thing very much, meeting people and all.
He came for the rehearsals
to see what angle would be best for each shot. Ok.
See he was very wiry and physically very fit.
And because this work demands that he did a lot of physical work.
Yes, yes yes. So he would climb very risky heights.
Oh my. Very true
Just so, that he could get a
Get the best
shot Oh my
from there you know. Even for building,
he used to go to the opposite side
and take the view from a very very high angle.
So, Professor Sengupto asked, "How did you take...
this should have been a very tall..." No no he climbed up
and took the photo..."Wasn't there a tree?"
He immediately said, "Wasn't there a tree?"
"Yeah, I boarded the tree and went to the other...
you know another thing...terrace." And all this thing,
they were planning, as I said, for three or four times
he used to rehearse and then come and take the photo.
Because he was such a perfectionist.
Yeah. Very very.
If he wanted a shot, he would
That yes.
Do anything to get it, even at
Yeah. risk of his own falling.
Yes, and the way they used, you know, it was always a
north-facing or south-facing...that thing, roofs.
He used to...Sengupto used to tell him, "Take it from this side."
Also his geologist training,
Right. He was very good at...he had a very good sense of direction.
Yes. And very good sense of lighting.
He would know which month of the year, what angle the light would fall, and
how it would get reflected and Wow.
What day...what hour of the day would be best for a certain shot.
And he used to see the clouds, Yeah.
Wonderful background, and then only he will take it...
as he says, lighting should be correct, which angle is correct,
and what height to go to, to take the photos.
Has he written about his experiences as a photographer?
No I don't think...
it would have so, nice to oh ok. He he did not have the time,
because he was doing it for a living, you see,
so, he had to support a family and so, his way of working
was actually not very sustainable,
because he would always be looking for the perfect print.
And so, the number of assignments that he could accept during the...any year,
was limited by how perfectly those photos Because a lot of
time was spent on ok, ok. Yeah
So that way he had very little time between assignments,
because they were always lined up. Yes.
People were always asking why havent you started our work yet. Ok. Oh my
You know and he kept saying, "I haven't..."
Because of his reputation, so...
Because of his very obsessive...
this preoccupation with that perfect picture.
He was very...
Even if he gave 50 pictures, each one of them have to be... Yeah wow.
And he asked her to do the rinsing
and the glazing, you know the...it had to be glazed in those days. Correct.
Because only she could do it perfectly.
He...he couldn't trust the assistant
with it, the assistant used to do all the other work.
Ok.
But he knew that she would do the rinsing very sincerely,
and not take shortcuts.
So that the picture would turn out perfectly. Yes.
It will go yellow for... Oh yes.
This is... The developing the last one is hypo.
Hypo has to be removed, otherwise the pictures will not be perfectly...
They will go yellow.
They will go yellow. They will go yellow not now,
but you know now if they are
still black and white it shows that...he didn't.
Yeah, I know usually they go...they go brown Yes.
when they get spots and so, many yeah. yeah
Old pictures. Even after so many years it is still...
It has to be washed seven times,
Wow. only then the hypo is removed.
Like that there used to be, and then, when he used to take the picture,
and printing and glazing needs to be done,
it has to be perfect, that is it.
And when someone came to take..."Gourishankar,
I want this photo taken of this machine,"
then he will take the picture and give it to them
and they will say, "We will come to him every time
because, we didn't even have a write up,
we just send this photo and we get all the... orders.
from abroad." Yeah.
And just the picture, and the company's name behind,
and we didn't give a write up or go to advertising agency and do anything,
because your picture speaks everything.
And they get all the order and one...
Yes, correct.
once he brought, and we have...he had an exhibition in Alliance Francaise.
Who is an...we can't go, we have an exhib...I will come later
when do you finish and then three months later
he came, brought the machine, took the photo and went.
And for that, he had to have a background
he had to have some...he'll buy small stones, small marbles
and other granite in a...and have a background
correct thing for the measure, and they used to be really perfect
and that is why they waited.
He...I told you his hobby was taking temple photograph and all,
so all those pictures were blown up
and put in an exhibition in Alliance,
and that was a very...famous one, Mister Harinarayana from...
curator of the Madras Museum came and inaugurated. [Inaudible Speech]
Yeah yeah yeah. You can see that, and also
No he is he had friends among the historians Yeah.
and archaeologists.
Yeah yeah. Because his aunt was the first
Very good.
Woman Ph. D. from Madras University.
Doctor C. Minakshi was his father’s younger sister. Ok.
That is how I said his father did all Right.
photography for her and Ok.
So for her thesis,
he remembers that his father used to do a lot of To do a lot
photography That is how he got it.
Yes. So are these pictures still in the Madras Museum?
Yes, I have yes. Those temple pictures.
Museum. I have all the picture,
Madras Museum returned it after the
exhibition was over. Ok ok.
I have all the pictures, these exhibition pictures,
large size as well as small size. Ok.
In August they wanted...Madras Day comes in August
Yes Madras week. So they said,
"You bring along Gourishankar's photographs, we'll display it,
because all the large size pictures are there, exhibition
pictures, some of them people bought
and took away, others are with us.
So this year there might be an exhibition
in...along with Madras week, very
nice Because the photos are all arranged, they have to be cleaned.
So July-August I'll do that and present it. Lakshmi...[Inaudible Dialogue]
[Inaudible Dialogue]
Ok. And.
Ok ok. So this is how the machine photography took on.
Everywhere, all the Guindy people
and other companies all over Madras and Bangalore,
they used to take photographs, bring the machine...
and Richardson and Cruddas was a very good...very good with that thing.
Yeah one's company
A company. Ok.
Which...which he did all pictures. Factories.
Then he used to go all over South India,
and anywhere...photographs
and what they did was, they brought home
all the things he couldn't take photos there...there it was at home. Ok.
In case you take photos and they take that.
The equipment and all Yeah.
that they bring it home.
Yes. Ok.
And also other architects.
Chitale, and other architect.
Whenever they had a good building, they used to come
ask, "Mister Gourishankar, you take all the photos."
Yeah. So, inside, outside, shot perfect
So Madras history, old...old building. Mrs. Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar: Yeah yeah.
Wow.
Chitale used to say, "I can't get any good picture like Gourishankar."
But sometimes they would lose patience,
because you couldn't get him to click, unless, he vis...
what he visualized came in the Yes
exposure. That was an...you know this indoor [Inaudible Dialogue]
He will not waste even a single exposure.
They'll say, "Sir, just take two or three we will see what comes," but he said, "No."
"I will take only one picture."
He was very very stubborn about that
He was so angry when...
[Inaudible]...Ooty. He wouldn't take a picture he says
He says, "I won't take this picture
because I know it won't come...come out well."
And they hence told me,
"It won't be Gourishankars picture, so, that is it madam."
He said, "You ask...you take it yourself, ask someone
else to take it, don't ask me to click from my camera." So...
There was a Central Photography Section set up
here, was he involved with... Yes, yes. Ok
From the beginning it must have...
There very much...and when that was...all the usual
photographs went to that photography department.
Only German professors and other faculty members
who wanted some machine picture which they wanted...there Kuberan or Kumar... (In Tamil) What is his name?
Kubendran. Kubendran.
Kubendran used to take all the photos
and everything, others Gourishankar used to come.
He was a regular Institute photographer. Ok ok.
But anything outside
of the routine he used to ask my father.
After the photography department came,
the regular photos were all done by him, by the department.
But they'd still call him, like you said, for events
or special...yeah ok.
Convocation, they would call him everytime. Ok. Yes.
I mean the other photographers would also be taking
pictures. Right ok.
But they wanted better a coverage,
smaller set of pictures. Ok.
Yes yes. And he would give them, you know these albums
that you see. Yes yes.
And he will never take more, they will say 100 pictures,
no 30 or 40, or whatever the occasion demands, Exactly.
Yeah only that photos he will take.
He says "For this occasion...." The others will come, "No, we want more photos."
"I know, you can inform any other photographer,
he will take hundred times this..." Not take more than this.
He was very definite about how he would. Mrs. Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar: He was very definite, his cousins...[Indistinct Dialogue]
I want your pictures...[Indistinct Dialogue]
He took only 30. Yeah.
That is all, he...whatever the occasion demands, only those
photographs he'll take...nothing extra
30 exposures That is why,
thirty pictures in one album that is it. Yeah.
That is why, in the convocation you read that this thing...complete
this thing...what all the programme
and where all he has to take photos, the President Prize,
the...Prize, the Director Prize or whatever
and he will take the photos of those students and give it correctly
and exactly...number not one extra picture.
One audience, that is all, no more.
He would have the list
He wouldn't budge,
but the few...he had a good sense of humour, you know.
So once I think person called...some student called Vannangamudi,
Ok. who won a price.
Some Governor's Medal...whatever.
And then they announced it, and
you know he was bending his head to
you know, greet the person...President
or someone who was giving him the prize,
and then two people were talking to each other
saying that, "See his name is Vannangamudi, but he is actually
bending his head", and so, he took he took a picture of that.
Because he felt that you know It is yeah.
it was good. So the...only in those instances he would budge from his
From his list How...
This [Indistinct Dialogue]
Yeah, I remember him narrating it to his... Ok.
So then as he grew older, he is...did he...
Yes. till what age did he go on taking pictures?
1995 I think we finished with IIT, slowly he...
But till '95. Gradually he stopped taking photos,
only a few...this thing we used to come, Professor [Inaudible] and.
But at that age also he used to... He was able to do Yes yes
He had a lot of willpower. Ok.
He functioned on willpower.
In all his effort...photography, he has all the things.
But he would work 65 hours Wow.
Continuously. non-stop, because because, he...the moment he
took a break, the chemicals would go waste,
and he would have to mix a new set of chemicals.
So in order to exhaust the chemicals,
He would go on working. He would work anything between 40 hours
and 65 hours. Yes, yes.
Three hours...we...three days we kept awake, Yeah.
And then we came here with the exhibition picture.
They said, "Please put up Mister Gourishankar, you only know."
Fourth day we were here and then we went to sleep. Yeah.
Three days continuously
we were working. Oh my
No sleep.
Complete...no sleep.
Because the German Consulate wanted the exhibition in the IIT
We never knew before, that was a last minute...this thing.
And we came, chose a place, brought all the photos.
Three days without sleeping, you were working. Yes, three days!
Three days fully we never had slept. Never slept, that was the maximum
I think. Fourth day, we put up the exhibition, and went home and slept.
Wonderful, the...he had stamina for...the photography and other things.
He would begin by cleaning the dark room every time he started.
Yes and he was perfect at home ok. Mamata Dash: Gourishankar Collection, all Gourishankar Collection. Mamata Dash: You can just scroll
He was perfect at home. Can you...can you see? You can move it so, she can. [Indistinct Chatter]
Collection.
(In Tamil) No, she's showing his (Gourishankar's) collection
Yes, yes there it is.
Yeah yeah he used to call it penguin,
Professor Sengupto said all the penguins are...
Sujatha Dube: Because of that gown and... [Indistinct Chatter] Mamata Dash: This I think all albums, all the photos are there.
Sujatha Dube: Oh, that's so nice Sports pictures,
he used to take all those sports day pictures... Yeah
And first one again... [Indistinct Dialogue]
Mamata Dash: You want to see?
Sujatha Dube: No no, let her
Mamata Dash: These are all his collections.
Sujatha Dube: Ok, I can look at it later, yeah. Yeah.
Sujatha Dube: They are digitizing everything, and putting it
Yes yes. Sujatha Dube: up on the Heritage Centre's
Sujatha Dube: website... Bhaskar told me...
even the ones I brought today,
those have to be digitized. Yes yes.
Important occasions and other things, they has to be digitized.
He said all the negatives have to be digitized.
I brought them in four or five lots. Ok.
Because I found them in various places,
and we had shifted house.
So, the...today I got 34 pictures.
[Background Chatter] Wow.
The set of picture and I brought them. Yeah.
And it was so nice to see all the the album within the archives
Yeah. there...is that...
Because the Centre is now become...really developing well and...
Indira Gandhi came,
that was so much, this thing...the security and all. Security.
And three days he used to come, and get all the detail,
because he said, "On that day, we won't be having...
that will be very crowded and everything.
Extra care we took on that time,
and same way, other visitors also.
Anyone from Germany came.
In '60, '61, '62, many people, (In Tamil) From the President, all the important people from Germany came
I will give them...all the negatives are there Ok ok.
They were all so pleased, you know he...they come to the
carpentry section, "Shall I plane?" "Oh, yes!"
Professor Sengupto will stand, and he will plane,
and he will take a picture.
That is how it was, it was all very very...friendly type their this thing,
those days.
I think all of us...all students have this... So many...so many jokes he had about
so many humorous instances, along with those people.
Everybody who studied here, has great memories of the workshops.
Yeah yes. Workshop...[Indaudible Dialogue]
[Indaudible Dialogue]
Vijayalakshmi. See...
Mamata Dash: This is Indira Gandhi convocation
I forget the name of the workshop,
Mister Gourishankar, they are coming and telling me,
"How can you have Sarswathi puja, it is secular here,
we dont have any...alright...we will call...worship of the...tools.
We will call it only worship of the tools
and we are worshipping the tools that is all."
No pooja nothing, see, there...you know...you
have to live with...your tools are everything in workshop. Yes, yes.
This is how he used to explain everything in that.
This seems is that Indira Gandhi (In Tamil) The pictures from convocation for which she came
Yes, 9th September, you know it was changed.
Saturday, the thing we had to...
Yes, this was the thing.
Wonderful, they were all there. Great pictures
All the Directors, right from Sengupto,
they were all there in the...and the school, Vanavani School.
And it was born. Mamata Dash: Yes yes, Vanavani creation day.
Right from the day it was born, we were there.
You know we knew all the...this thing
because he studied in Loyola College, and the mentor here,
the advisor here, was his professor from Loyola and the...the...the principal.
They were here. (In Tamil) What was that lady's name, ma...Professor...? [Indistinct Dialogue] She had come after Vanavani was started.
When was Vanavani started? (In Tamil) That was also in '60s...?
'65.
'65, four or five...
Jebamalai... Jebamalai Peters
She was the first...
[Indistinct Chatter] Just...I remember, we were there, right from the Vanavani started
there, taking pictures there...pictures of Vanavani also
(In Tamil) When did K. V. come about? Kendriya Vidyalaya...also around?
Kendriya Vidyalaya, no.
Ok later...Vanavani was first
Very much later.
Mamata Dash: '64. Around the same time.
Ok. (In Tamil) After '85-'86, we had stopped...so many, coming here.
Only important occasions, we used to come.
Actually you know from the negatives,
That he worked here till '95, because very rare occasion
he used to come there. (In Tamil) In '60 he started...
But just then, (In Tamil) He shifted here from Guindy
(In Tamil) After starting then...I think in 1995 something,
but very gradually we stopped this thing...yeah this thing.
Did he gradually...(In Tamil) Generally photography, because of age or?
(In Tamil) He left photography Ok.
But...
Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar: Because the kind of photography he did was very strenuous.
And yes, they used to ask him to take photograph of books.
That was the...[Indistinct Dialogue]
An American Professor, Santa Barbara,
when he came here and...he did his research and everything.
He took a lot of photos for him.
And then he used to give all the write-up,
and then for any information, there he was, with all the details.
Yes.
Sometimes IIT students used to come, I remember,
tha...they...I think maybe from the Photo Club or something,
they used to come to and spend, you know evening and night Right.
watching him work and, you know
getting this thing... Learning...learning
from him, ok.
That so many people did.
My friends, Yeah.
relatives, and unknown people.
They all used to come.
And he'd welcome everyone. Yes yes.
and so many people learned photography
and printing, development, printing and all...he was there.
Tea was on the tap in our house, tea, snacks or biscuits or bananas or...
Somebody...(In Tamil) someone will always be coming Mungfali (groundnut),
whatever, because she was so busy
and, you know
she...she would just make sure there is a stock of everything.
So, my father would drink lot of tea in between his works.
So whoever was there, there was a round of tea
Always had tea...and whoever worked there, the carpenter,
the assistants, and so many other people used to...painters
and the negative photographers,
assistant photographers...they were all there, together they all treat...
he'd treat them exactly equal to him, there was no difference for anybody.
All had khaana (food) together, all had...[Indistinct Dialogue]
And he would eat with them, not with us.
And when there was an exhibition or an important occasion
in IIT or anything, everybody will step in, they will do any work.
They will take over those work, and this one will take...
and then the album...then the frames and all finished,
everyone will be helping everyone,
and then it will be finished on time.
Great teamwork.
Yes. Yes.
He inspired the
people like that. Yes like that.
Because he himself was working very very hard.
Right yeah. Yeah. So, you know they said, why not...
So he would lead by example.
And he encouraged them to take on,
in life.
Right.
You know you can't remain an assistant you can't remain this way.
They encouraged him to swallow their own profession
and how they use...best to...there was one Chellamuthu, he went to his village,
and he thus benefited by visiting...and even when Gourishankar died,
the way he helped me, I could not have managed otherwise,
and in later days, he helped them a lot financially, everybody,
and even today when he ask his assistant to bring up anything,
"Oh, we will do it." And the...then the people thank me and I said,
"Don't thank me, you thank Gourishankar."
But he...because he is still rubbing...that rubbing on that...
this thing, "We will do anything for Gourishankar",
"We will do anything for uncle, we will do anything for him."
Because that's the thing they created for him. Any problem anyone had,
he used to go and solve them, or put them onto people, you...those who get it solved.
That way he helped everybody, he had an empathy for everyone,
and that still continues, even after so many years,
people just tell me, "Gourishankar (In Tamil) immediately, he will do anything...Chittappa (uncle) [Indistinct Dialogue]
and because relatives, friends, everybody will help. Photography and...generallly.
They all have such great memories. Generally generally generally, he had.
Our house itself was a 200 year old house.
It was just rebuilt once I think.
It was a street house in Nungambakkam,
where the front entrance was on one street, and the back...
back door was.
(In Tamil) Like an Agraharam
Agraharam house. With cowshed, with car garage,
With tulasi maadam, with a second kitchen for functions.
I didn't know there were such houses in Chennai
Court yard (In Tamil) I have seen it somewhere in Trivandrum Yes.
Courtyard and huge...big corridor,
and hall, and this thing...upstairs there was a big hall,
and we just created...painted...[Overlapping Conversation]
It's a heritage building.
Yeah yeah. (In Tamil) Now? Now it is gone,
we sold it long ago.
And then, background he used to paint one wall at the background
and all the photography was done there,
and the huge house, I think had all the things.
But later on he took nature photography.
And one wall he refused to let it be painted,
because he said it looks good as it is.
Because it shouldn't be even.
And then he took on photography, he used to do outside only.
In nature...nature light, everyone.
My mama’s (uncle's) daughter came, said, "Please take a photo."
He used to take the photo in the background...in the...behind
in a, near the all the palm trees and coconut trees.
That photo came out so well, they wrote back saying, "We are going
and looking at the photo every minute, I think that
Its so nice I have...never nobody has taken such picture of ours."
See, very high ceiling. Right.
So that is why he could do the enlargements
with the enlarger mounted on the loft Ok ok.
The negative used to stand...withstand all the big fine enlargement. Ok.
And he took a photo of Madurai temple,
he climbed one gopuram,
Oh my! He wasn't allowed, he took permission,
and then took the photo of southern gopuram
Nobody had that view at that height.
Who climbs up a gopuram? Yeah,
his friend from geological survey had gone with him.
"Ma, was holding to his shirt,
it was just sheer drop."
And he would take on taking photos and wait for the clouds,
and the picture had won so, many prizes
and Karumuttu Thiagarajan Chettiar from Madurai,
he took a large size enlargement of it, painted,
still there with him, Ramaswami chittappa (paternal uncle),
took it along and it is still there with him, he said, "I never knew
negative could stand this enlargement." It was perfect, clear
picture of that size, 60 by 40. Wow.
60 inches and That angle is impossible to get, unless
you take it from one gopuram,
and you know there are these holes in the gopurams,
he got to the edge of...inner edge of the holes Oh my.
so that you don't see the window like appearance. Yes.
So it looks as if you are viewing the other gopuram
from somewhere in mid-air.
This wasn't seen at all, the gopuram wasn't seen it...
It would be fantastic view.
Lying on his tummy for
hours, and his friend was holding onto...
On the gopuram...(In Tamil) Oh my!
Geological survey friend came and saidt, "We are doing some digging
and...at Thiruvannamalai, please come along."
He took photographs of the temple,
and the rice planting there, and also they were digging and
geological work. All three came,
but geological work of course, we printed and gave it to the department.
But this rice planting and Thiruvannamalai temple pictures
still, they are there, and all large size, because for the exhibition,
and small size, they have...exhibition pictures...small size pictures [Indistinct Dialogue]
I see. just 34 pictures (In Tamil) he kept in exhibition.
You should hold an exhibition
of his pictures.
Yes, they are having in...I think August.
We never got along to...he never believed in
Having a... having an exhibition, or in submitting his photos for competitions.
Ok. If someone called him and exhibited a photo,
and said, "This is very nice," it's ok.
But that is the only kind of recognition
that he...otherwise he will not go into...
And he doesn't take.
Just the picture was enough for him, getting the perfect picture. Yeah, yeah
that was enough. Yeah, any wedding, any birthday, any occasion,
presented pictures. So everyone was happy,
"Oh, there is Gourishankar's photo, oh there is..."
Professor Thomas from Alliance Française "That is your visiting card."
There everyone had pictures,
presented by Gourishankar.
Various pictures from various...statues and all.
So they all had pictures, because he used to present them right
and left to everybody.
Anyone who valued his work,
They got the picture...some.
If you can, you should write about all those times,
it will be very interest...with his pictures, make a beautiful book, I think.
If you, if you have the time. Yeah yeah.
Because you were there throughout with him, you saw everything.
Exactly.
She worked with him. You worked with him, you know all the details.
[Indistinct Dialogue] Kalyan...Kalyan Sundaram from State Bank of India
he was a very [Indistinct Dialogue]
So Appa (father)...[Indistinct Dialogue]
And he wrote such a...[Indistinct Dialogue]...Appa (father) replied, "Kalyan,
you have helped me so much, I stood in front of the mirror I find a halo in front of me."
"You praise me so much, you deserve all the praise."
I'll come and meet Professor...[Indistinct Dialogue]
His fellow students,
like this person from Geological Survey.
From from his M. A. Geology class, and from Geological Survey,
they used to have a lot of regard for him,
because even the 10 years or so, that he spent in GSI,
He...his mapping was so perfect,
that even to this day, they dont have to alter it,
even by an inch.
And now Jayanth showed me (In Tamil) in is there in the internet, you put Geological Survey,
and there is Gourishankar. Yeah.
With all these surveys done in various front, from Bihar and Madras.
Wow.
Sunderbans, everywhere he has...
Yeah, when he resigned, Professor...[Overlapping Conversation]
(In Tamil) I though he would give a survey...report and go.
He has given perfect reports of all the places,
he used to enjoy writing the reports.
Wonderful, and the survey they used to do, wonderful in each quartz,
in each stone, and he had a lovely rockery at home,
in the garden he had a huge big house I told you with a [Indistinct Dialogue]
The background...backyard was a very huge place,
he had a beautiful rockery, and inside the house, almirahs
contained all the rocks, and his friends used to tell
they bring the hammer, they bring the rock, Gouri is the best person to trim.
He will trim each one beautifully.
You know they get the rock from the...this thing,
Yeah. then it has to be trimmed in a nice way.
Correct. To show the correct...
of the rock, and his friends used to have just fingertips about all
the rocks, Professor Gopalan and all.
And they used to come, and we had a beautiful almirah fullt,
and a rockery in the garden of the geological...
that helped him a lot in photography.
GSI, geology...
and I asked him, "If that was geology and that started...
and you took it because you liked, if there was...otherwise
what would you have taken?" "I would have taken archaeology
or architecture." Both of them weren't there then...
He loved buildings and history
Because he used to paint a lot. Oh ok.
I got pictures of his painting of his professor,
He draws and paints my sister-in-law's picture.
He draws and paints beautifully.
She got it, painting and all. Ok.
(In Tamil) He knows it well.
So... He used to write also, he was a very
good writer.
[Indistinct Dialogue]
He used to...he used to write in
Times of India, Sujatha Dube: Ok.
those days. Sujatha Dube: Ok.
Sujatha Dube: So do you have those?
Anywhere we went he used to write articles. Sujatha Dube: Ok.
I got all his articles, yes they were...they were printed in paper and magazines,
Times of India, Illustrated Weekly, all had his articles, yes. Mamata Dash: He has written one article in...
I have seen the article this one,
the 'Dear oh Dear', 'Oh Dear, Deer!' yes I have this...is very nice.
He used to enjoy reading Campastimes, Ok.
so he contributed this
Very nice, this is very well...funny...funnily written.
And anywhere he went, he took photographs,
he will come home, write an article and attach the photo
and send it to the paper, and there it was.
This is very interesting, he talks about about how he needed to buy
camouflage with green hat...
Such preparation na, before.
And all the archaeology people used to come home
because of Dr. C. Minakshi is out there.
They used to tell Gourishankar, "Go here, take photos, this will be nice." [Indistinct Dialogue]
Go to this place, that place, he went all over,
took photos, and he used to write article and send it to paper.
The photographs are still there, and the articles are also
there, cuttings, I have kept them.
That is very nice.
All the cutting...and he also stored scrapbook.
Cuttings of all interesting articles, not a scrapbook exactly,
they were collection of very good pictures, and same way, arts.
Any picture, any painting, any art, he used to collect, a big scrapbook of.
So he had many interests...
He was interested in so many things, not only photography.
To keep up with them. Because he got very tied up with being a With the...
professional photographer. Ok.
When he was a geologist,
he could Yes.
But this was much more time consuming, And and any
art exhibitions, he will be there.
In this thing...the Lalit Kala Akademi...
Akademi, wherever he used to...in the museum anywhere,
any exhibition he will be there,
and he used to be judge in the tourist department.
He used to call him for being a judge, Mahabalipuram and other places.
Where the tourist guides were given an examination, oral examination.
He used to go along and be a judge there,
because he used to ask the correct question as...[Inaudible Dialogue]
tourist department visiting will attend them,
and correctly he said, "These students answer very well."
In this thing.
Mister M. Krishnan used to come and watch him work,
and he used to go to...we were family friends. Ok.
He would visit him,
you know as he was developing his wildlife pictures, Right.
He also had very nice documents very nice...
he did all his photography work himself, apart from that
he was a writer. M. Krishnan wrote in 'Statesman,'
and any...they had...we had very good conversation.
"Gourishankar you told me this today,
I must write it in my next article."
And there in the next 'Statesman' it will be there.
That is why the conversation we had, and...the and how much we learnt,
that was the thing...how much we learnt from all
these various friends and acquaintances, is remarkable.
And they also said, "We also learnt equally from you."
Both of them, he did...when he was doing his photography,
they were both attending to my grandmother,
Yes. who was a bedridden patient.
Oh ok.
Arthritis patient.
So, on the one hand, they would do the photography,
And take...that's also very time... continuously take care of...
see, in those days no attenders...
He looked after his mother very well.
So, he had to do much of it yourself, (In Tamil) Isn't it? Yes.
Both of them looked after my grandmother,
because she needed handling.
She was...she was
completely bedridden. Poor...
1953 I got married,
'55 she fell ill, till 1967...she died...for 12 years,
you took care of her. Yes.
In with all the... With all this
Viji, Viji baby... And with children and...
Only Jayam was born later on, my son was born after she died.
But Viji was a baby, and my photography, and my mother-in-law there.
Oh my, three full time jobs
Yes. Yes.
All in the same house, you know
We had very good servants, very good cook,
and people to help, anytime, because we were there in that house,
right from 1807, Gourishankar’s great great grandfather
had bought the house from the East India Company.
We had all those papers.
And, right from that time, we were there in Nungambakam
in that house, which was demolished and built again and again,
but the later house was so beautiful, everyone else
said, "Gourishankar please will this house to me!"
Unfortunately, it was co-owned by many other people,
so it had to be sold
It had to be sold
He couldn't afford to buy it by himself. Yes.
It must have cost. He was sentimentally very attached to it.
But it was one of those...
He must have grown up there then, if his great grand....born and grown...
Born and grown up.
You have any other question that you want to ask?
No I don't have any that's it.
Is there anything else you would like to say or add?
I [don't think so. Yeah.
Thank you again, this was wonderful talking to... Thank you very much.
Thank you.
I the recalled all the nostalgic memory and this thing about Gourishankar.
I hope you have you can write about it,
I am sure it would be a great book. Yeah yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
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