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Mrs. Mahalakshmi Gourishankar and Mrs. Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar in conversation with Sujatha Dube

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Good morning, I am Sujatha

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from the Development Office at IIT Madras

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and I have the great honor

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and pleasure this morning of interviewing

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Mrs. Gourishankar. Her husband Mr. Gourishankar was

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involved with IIT almost from the very beginning,

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and his photographs and the memories

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of Mrs. Gourishankar are part of IIT's heritage.

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I am very happy to have this opportunity.

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Good morning Mrs. Gourishankar,

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Mrs. Viji, first of all thank you for this opportunity to talk to you.

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Yeah. I would like to begin by asking

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how did Mr. Gourishankar's association with IIT

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and photography...all that began...begin.

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Yeah, in 1960, I was away in Delhi, Viji was being on a...[Inaudible Dialogue]

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and here, his friend Mr. R Natarajan was the Registrar here.

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He said, "Gourishankar, why don't you come and take photos in IIT,

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we are just started everything the building and all,

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and Professor Sengupto will be very happy to be..."

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because Professor Sengupto knew a lot about photography.

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So, then in 1960 it started. First student’s associations, taking

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the photos of the buildings, and then functions.

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And then the convocation came.

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So each convocation, he used to be called,

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and then he used to cover those photos

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that is how the association began, and Professor Ramaswamy

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and others, Sampath and NCC leader Colonel Nair.

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They all used to call him for the various photos

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to be taken in their department.

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So it was very little then, it had just shifted from Guindy

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and the buildings were all under this thing.

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And he used to come and take photos for them.

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For the record, as Professor Sengupto said, "Right

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from the beginning, to see that the trees are all there,

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and the buildings are all coming and we are planting more trees"

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and all. And he used to tell Gourishankar, how to take photos.

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"Take this from the East, that from the West

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and this building", you have to keep on saying right

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from the ground this thing...foundation to the full building

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that he used to do and all the occasions he used to come.

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He was an amateur photographer or a

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Yeah. Professional. Professional, ok

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He was a professional photographer,

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then he used to take industrial photography.

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And his hobby was to take photos of the

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temples and other monuments

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Aand tourist spots in India that was his side,

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but the main thing was, he was connect...as an industrial photographer.

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He was taking photos for Guindy Engineering

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and the the Guindy Machine Tools or the various companies

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and industries in Madras, and also in Bangalore.

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Ok. So, that is how he got connect to IIT.

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IIT is one of the place he used to come and take photos.

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How did his interest in photography begin?

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Photography. He was always interested in photography.

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Taking photos and he had a camera.

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His father was a good photographer. Ok.

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Even though there was no electricity in home

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when he was married and came,

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his father used to do developing at home.

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Having the lights and all.

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And he still had those red lights and all that you know.

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My mother-in-law used to help my father-in-law.

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And so, Gourishankar got interested in photography by his father,

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because he used to take a lot of photos with his [Inaudible] camera

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which he and his youngest sister Dr C. Minakshi.

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Was a historian doing research work.

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Under Professor Nilakanta Sastri.

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So, my father-in-law used to go along with her to take photos

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of all the thing, and till she received her Ph. D.,

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he used to help her a lot with all the photos. Ok.

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So, my husband was introduced in that way.

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And when...I got married he bought his first Rolleiflex.

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And he was having a very good hobby as a photographer.

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And then geological survey...though he was interested in

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geology a lot, he found that he could not...

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the six months away from there, my mother-in-law was ill.

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And he used to stay in camps and shift every ten days.

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Then he resigned, and took up photography as a profession.

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Ok. Till then it was a hobby.

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Ok. In 1958 - '59 as he took it...the photography,

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he started with IIT

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that is how...in for...and he read about all photography.

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He learned from every photographer. Right

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from all the great famous photographers, and all their books

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that is how he developed his knowledge about photography.

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Do you know about his relationship with other famous photographers?

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Yes. In

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Yeah, in Madras.

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All the photographers knew him.

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And anyone in any interview,

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They will say, "Do you know Mr. Gourishankar professional one?"

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They all used to stand up.

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Yes, you know its the (in Tamil) for our profession (in Tamil) an honour.

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(In Tamil) after doing MA Geology, he's coming and doing what a photo...and he never stopped

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taking its a perfect picture, that is what.

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So all the studios and other people would come with to him.

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Saying we couldn't get this photo will you please...

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He...two or three days he will do.

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And he will give them a very good picture,

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and they will come and tell me,

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"Mahalakshmi, I don't know, we couldn't get the photo

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anywhere even G. K. Vale and others they could not do it.

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And Gourishankar has taken a perfect picture."

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So, that is how he learnt his photography, and to do difficult pictures.

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How to tackle them and all. Right.

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Even for IIT, there were many difficult pictures, he used to do them all.

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That is how he learned photography.

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And all the studios and other photographers

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used to come home. They were all very good friends.

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Ok. Just for learning.

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For doubts, or for getting his comments

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about their photos they all used to come.

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We had very good relation with the...

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Who were the other photographers ma, like Dr.

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M. Krishnan, (in Tamil) and others like him...

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His mentors and all. Yes.

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M. Krishnan was his mentor.

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He is a naturalist, and a photographer.

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And he is very knowledgeable about photography

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and he got fellowship Jawaharlal Fellowship and all.

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Padma Shri and all.

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He was a very good adviser for him

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for any in...this thing concerned with photo...

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And as he used to do still photography for his cousin.

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R. N. Nagarajarao and other still photographers

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[Inaudible] so, many people they all used to come

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and he used to learn from them the still photography

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this thing and the studios,

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whenever they found any difficulty in any photos

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or anything they used to.

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Vaman Brothers, Madras Photo Store, G. K. Vale [incoherent]

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They were all they...are very good friend

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and we used to know them very well. Ok.

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And we used to buy all the chemicals,

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because everything was done at home.

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All the developed...everything wow.

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We had developed the dark room, and all the chemicals bought

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and everything, those chemicals this thing also

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people used to come. I have Krishnan's letters

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and all, where he used to say, 'For this developer, for this stoning, for this...'

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All the chemicals and all, they have learnt about so many other things

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apart from photography, because they had to tackle different

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Right. photos at different times, nature photography

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and forest photography was M. Krishnan's thing. Ok.

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So he learnt about that.

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And all the...taking pictures of the statues

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and taking pictures of the...each department here,

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that was a real thing, some of them he had to bring out

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they used to bring it out to the sunlight,

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some of the...for...this thing he used to take home

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and take...they all very well cooperated.

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The buildings were just coming up. Yes.

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Yeah that time.

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They very well cooperated.

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And the...the perfect background,

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the perfect this thing, and the perfect camera.

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He used to...and take the perfect picture. And

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till he got the enlargement correct,

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He never stopped. The negatives were prepared very well,

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and then when the printing was done

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the first picture, "No this can come better."

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That is how he got the perfectionist title in photography.

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Have you accompanied him on these photo shoots In IIT? Yes.

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Everywhere everywhere. What what was IIT like in those days?

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I just remembered 1961.

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She was a baby.

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We went to Professor Sengupto's house

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the Directors Bungalow was very different then.

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Now it is very different, and he used to come for all the functions.

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Any function in IIT,

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he used to come. She was a baby then,

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few months old, but we bring her along.

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And then when the...Viji was baby and Jayan, my son was born,

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and they had school, I couldn't accompany him everywhere.

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And there was always an assistant. Ok.

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So he used to come

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only for important occasion like convocation all, I used to come.

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Or for any alumni this thing if they invited me

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Rathindra Nath Roy this thing.

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(In Tamil) What was Rathindra Nath Roy's friend's name?

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They were all my alumni people.

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They used to come, and when they invited we used to come

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and see that plays dramas, everything. That

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we enjoyed, inter-college plays and all. Everything

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he will come...photography. Was that in OAT, was OAT there

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In those days? OAT was...

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After it came...afterwards there was no OAT before.

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ok. After that only it came.

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Everything came later it was

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just plain jungle in '60-'61.

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I remember '62,

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it started. Professor Sengupto when he working,

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and this thing...Professor Sengupto and Natarajan’s farewell...

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everything we used to come when there was an occasion.

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Otherwise, I never came to IIT very often

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because Gourishankar always came with his assistant. Ok ok.

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They used to to take photos I only helped him at home,

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complete...apart from being a wife I was helping him in photography

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in every way when he was doing development

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and printing. Taking photos he used to come.

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Developing printing I used to.

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You used to Help him a lot

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and that is how I knew about...

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So that must have been very interesting for you to

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learn...lot to... Very very interesting.

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So, many people came.

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They want to learn photography.

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And some people who came, "Gourishankar

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will you teach photography"...it can't be learnt in one day.

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And he will advise them not to take up professional, leaving aside

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other job because photography wasn't very well known those days.

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As I said, as librarian and a photographer,

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came up now, very very well.

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Now they are all in very bigger.

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after it became a library issue thing, with it...internet and all

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and photography with the latest. Correct.

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Those days it was not very well known. Ok.

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Was he involved...I have heard that

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he was involved with Campastimes did he used to write for...?

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Yes, yes he was there proofreading in,

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as a Roy Rathindra Nath Roy used to say,

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"You will advise us at the batch...this thing...what used to come first

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and whats the coming behind and what will come there."

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And...the...give them all the advice about this thing.

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Same thing ICC started and they published a thing,

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he took photographs in all the departments.

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And he found to his amazement that each department

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didn't know what the other was doing.

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He used to really complain to them that.

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And then they came to know,

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about the other, Gourishankar taught us,

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see this is already there in the other department.

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And when this the book was published I forget the name, ICC book...

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they had a copy, but and then they run short that we gave it to him

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and we had all the department photos in that

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when it was started that's what...consultancy centre was started.

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And then he used to help a lot.

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Same way when German Consulate and this thing IIT and other people.

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Had an exhibition here,

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He was there throughout helping them.

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Decide the space, arrange it, all that because

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he had a good idea about the consistency, he was a very good artist.

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Very good artist, that helped him a lot, to get the medal.

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I think I had yes... German professors you...wanted blow ups

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of the labs. Ok.

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Because they developed the labs

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Yes. You know.

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In the institute, in the workshops. Et cetera.

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So that...is he started doing 40 by 30 inches 60 by 40 inches you know.

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And do you have those pictures?

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The Heritage Centre if...

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Has those pictures? Yes, they...

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Mostly 40 By 30. ICC.

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24 by 20, very few 60 by 40. Yeah.

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And that is very different to a normal picture development? Yeah.

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Yes You have to mount a enlarger. To still be clear when.

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Yes. It is so, big.

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You have to mount a enlarger on those...this thing loft. Loft.

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And have the big trees huge.

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Oh oh yeah, to...ok. Yes.

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With a wooden this thing.

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And the plastic sheet over it, we had...60 by 40 was very difficult.

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The enlarger was up, and...was down

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and three rooms were taken on for dark room. Yeah.

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And all those pictures the German consulates only encouraged him

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to do all the big pictures. All the German professors here Dr Hans Wagner,

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Doctor Hans Wagner, Doctor...they all wanted him to do those.

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Ok. Pictures for their record, to put up in the labs...the wall.

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So, those pictures they took them? Are they still...? Yeah

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exhibition took it...exhibition pictures were all here the German Consulate...[Indistinct Dialogue]

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They they were different I think. (In Hindi) Oh, achcha

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So. It might be with the German Consulate.

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Probably. Ok.

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Yes. Because the Heritage Centre's always looking for...I think...

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Old I'll see...

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pictures. old pictures with IIT photos (In Tamil) if it is there

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(In Tamil) Please look if it is there. Photos. Yes.

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They are all there. Yes.

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It would be

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Paper...yeah. Wonderful for them to

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Yes. Have to.

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Paper used to come in rolls,

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and we used to cut and print them, I will find it when...[Overlapping Conversation]

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Please, Ok ok.

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For convocation also. (In Tamil) Yes.

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He did with a lot of involvement you know. Yes.

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He would attend the

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rehearsals also. Ok, to plan the best way of...

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[Indistinct Dialogue]

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And then Jalakanteshwara...no rain

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It was always July July always yes

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So, he always used to come, three days rehearsal.

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Who is coming, what all, and he used to enjoy hearing them talk and all.

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Professor...Doctor J. R. D. Tata, and C. V. Raman

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and Radhakrishnan...they all...all the dignitaries were here.

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And some of them had visited IIT already.

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All of them used to be there and the conversation and all,

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and he loved the convocation...this thing very much, meeting people and all.

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He came for the rehearsals

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to see what angle would be best for each shot. Ok.

00:15:09

See he was very wiry and physically very fit.

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And because this work demands that he did a lot of physical work.

00:15:18

Yes, yes yes. So he would climb very risky heights.

00:15:21

Oh my. Very true

00:15:22

Just so, that he could get a

00:15:23

Get the best

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shot Oh my

00:15:25

from there you know. Even for building,

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he used to go to the opposite side

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and take the view from a very very high angle.

00:15:31

So, Professor Sengupto asked, "How did you take...

00:15:34

this should have been a very tall..." No no he climbed up

00:15:36

and took the photo..."Wasn't there a tree?"

00:15:38

He immediately said, "Wasn't there a tree?"

00:15:41

"Yeah, I boarded the tree and went to the other...

00:15:44

you know another thing...terrace." And all this thing,

00:15:47

they were planning, as I said, for three or four times

00:15:50

he used to rehearse and then come and take the photo.

00:15:53

Because he was such a perfectionist.

00:15:55

Yeah. Very very.

00:15:56

If he wanted a shot, he would

00:15:58

That yes.

00:15:58

Do anything to get it, even at

00:16:01

Yeah. risk of his own falling.

00:16:02

Yes, and the way they used, you know, it was always a

00:16:06

north-facing or south-facing...that thing, roofs.

00:16:09

He used to...Sengupto used to tell him, "Take it from this side."

00:16:13

Also his geologist training,

00:16:14

Right. He was very good at...he had a very good sense of direction.

00:16:17

Yes. And very good sense of lighting.

00:16:20

He would know which month of the year, what angle the light would fall, and

00:16:27

how it would get reflected and Wow.

00:16:30

What day...what hour of the day would be best for a certain shot.

00:16:34

And he used to see the clouds, Yeah.

00:16:37

Wonderful background, and then only he will take it...

00:16:40

as he says, lighting should be correct, which angle is correct,

00:16:44

and what height to go to, to take the photos.

00:16:47

Has he written about his experiences as a photographer?

00:16:49

No I don't think...

00:16:51

it would have so, nice to oh ok. He he did not have the time,

00:16:54

because he was doing it for a living, you see,

00:16:56

so, he had to support a family and so, his way of working

00:17:02

was actually not very sustainable,

00:17:04

because he would always be looking for the perfect print.

00:17:08

And so, the number of assignments that he could accept during the...any year,

00:17:13

was limited by how perfectly those photos Because a lot of

00:17:16

time was spent on ok, ok. Yeah

00:17:18

So that way he had very little time between assignments,

00:17:22

because they were always lined up. Yes.

00:17:24

People were always asking why havent you started our work yet. Ok. Oh my

00:17:27

You know and he kept saying, "I haven't..."

00:17:29

Because of his reputation, so...

00:17:31

Because of his very obsessive...

00:17:35

this preoccupation with that perfect picture.

00:17:39

He was very...

00:17:40

Even if he gave 50 pictures, each one of them have to be... Yeah wow.

00:17:44

And he asked her to do the rinsing

00:17:46

and the glazing, you know the...it had to be glazed in those days. Correct.

00:17:50

Because only she could do it perfectly.

00:17:51

He...he couldn't trust the assistant

00:17:54

with it, the assistant used to do all the other work.

00:17:56

Ok.

00:17:57

But he knew that she would do the rinsing very sincerely,

00:18:01

and not take shortcuts.

00:18:04

So that the picture would turn out perfectly. Yes.

00:18:06

It will go yellow for... Oh yes.

00:18:07

This is... The developing the last one is hypo.

00:18:09

Hypo has to be removed, otherwise the pictures will not be perfectly...

00:18:13

They will go yellow.

00:18:14

They will go yellow. They will go yellow not now,

00:18:16

but you know now if they are

00:18:17

still black and white it shows that...he didn't.

00:18:20

Yeah, I know usually they go...they go brown Yes.

00:18:22

when they get spots and so, many yeah. yeah

00:18:24

Old pictures. Even after so many years it is still...

00:18:27

It has to be washed seven times,

00:18:28

Wow. only then the hypo is removed.

00:18:30

Like that there used to be, and then, when he used to take the picture,

00:18:34

and printing and glazing needs to be done,

00:18:37

it has to be perfect, that is it.

00:18:40

And when someone came to take..."Gourishankar,

00:18:43

I want this photo taken of this machine,"

00:18:45

then he will take the picture and give it to them

00:18:48

and they will say, "We will come to him every time

00:18:50

because, we didn't even have a write up,

00:18:53

we just send this photo and we get all the... orders.

00:18:56

from abroad." Yeah.

00:18:57

And just the picture, and the company's name behind,

00:19:01

and we didn't give a write up or go to advertising agency and do anything,

00:19:05

because your picture speaks everything.

00:19:07

And they get all the order and one...

00:19:09

Yes, correct.

00:19:09

once he brought, and we have...he had an exhibition in Alliance Francaise.

00:19:13

Who is an...we can't go, we have an exhib...I will come later

00:19:18

when do you finish and then three months later

00:19:21

he came, brought the machine, took the photo and went.

00:19:24

And for that, he had to have a background

00:19:27

he had to have some...he'll buy small stones, small marbles

00:19:31

and other granite in a...and have a background

00:19:33

correct thing for the measure, and they used to be really perfect

00:19:38

and that is why they waited.

00:19:40

He...I told you his hobby was taking temple photograph and all,

00:19:44

so all those pictures were blown up

00:19:46

and put in an exhibition in Alliance,

00:19:49

and that was a very...famous one, Mister Harinarayana from...

00:19:54

curator of the Madras Museum came and inaugurated. [Inaudible Speech]

00:19:57

Yeah yeah yeah. You can see that, and also

00:20:00

No he is he had friends among the historians Yeah.

00:20:02

and archaeologists.

00:20:03

Yeah yeah. Because his aunt was the first

00:20:05

Very good.

00:20:06

Woman Ph. D. from Madras University.

00:20:08

Doctor C. Minakshi was his father’s younger sister. Ok.

00:20:12

That is how I said his father did all Right.

00:20:14

photography for her and Ok.

00:20:15

So for her thesis,

00:20:17

he remembers that his father used to do a lot of To do a lot

00:20:21

photography That is how he got it.

00:20:22

Yes. So are these pictures still in the Madras Museum?

00:20:25

Yes, I have yes. Those temple pictures.

00:20:27

Museum. I have all the picture,

00:20:28

Madras Museum returned it after the

00:20:30

exhibition was over. Ok ok.

00:20:32

I have all the pictures, these exhibition pictures,

00:20:34

large size as well as small size. Ok.

00:20:36

In August they wanted...Madras Day comes in August

00:20:40

Yes Madras week. So they said,

00:20:41

"You bring along Gourishankar's photographs, we'll display it,

00:20:45

because all the large size pictures are there, exhibition

00:20:47

pictures, some of them people bought

00:20:49

and took away, others are with us.

00:20:51

So this year there might be an exhibition

00:20:53

in...along with Madras week, very

00:20:55

nice Because the photos are all arranged, they have to be cleaned.

00:20:58

So July-August I'll do that and present it. Lakshmi...[Inaudible Dialogue]

00:21:01

[Inaudible Dialogue]

00:21:03

Ok. And.

00:21:04

Ok ok. So this is how the machine photography took on.

00:21:10

Everywhere, all the Guindy people

00:21:13

and other companies all over Madras and Bangalore,

00:21:17

they used to take photographs, bring the machine...

00:21:20

and Richardson and Cruddas was a very good...very good with that thing.

00:21:24

Yeah one's company

00:21:25

A company. Ok.

00:21:27

Which...which he did all pictures. Factories.

00:21:29

Then he used to go all over South India,

00:21:32

and anywhere...photographs

00:21:34

and what they did was, they brought home

00:21:36

all the things he couldn't take photos there...there it was at home. Ok.

00:21:41

In case you take photos and they take that.

00:21:42

The equipment and all Yeah.

00:21:43

that they bring it home.

00:21:44

Yes. Ok.

00:21:45

And also other architects.

00:21:47

Chitale, and other architect.

00:21:49

Whenever they had a good building, they used to come

00:21:51

ask, "Mister Gourishankar, you take all the photos."

00:21:54

Yeah. So, inside, outside, shot perfect

00:21:57

So Madras history, old...old building. Mrs. Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar: Yeah yeah.

00:21:59

Wow.

00:22:00

Chitale used to say, "I can't get any good picture like Gourishankar."

00:22:04

But sometimes they would lose patience,

00:22:06

because you couldn't get him to click, unless, he vis...

00:22:10

what he visualized came in the Yes

00:22:13

exposure. That was an...you know this indoor [Inaudible Dialogue]

00:22:16

He will not waste even a single exposure.

00:22:19

They'll say, "Sir, just take two or three we will see what comes," but he said, "No."

00:22:22

"I will take only one picture."

00:22:25

He was very very stubborn about that

00:22:28

He was so angry when...

00:22:30

[Inaudible]...Ooty. He wouldn't take a picture he says

00:22:33

He says, "I won't take this picture

00:22:34

because I know it won't come...come out well."

00:22:37

And they hence told me,

00:22:39

"It won't be Gourishankars picture, so, that is it madam."

00:22:43

He said, "You ask...you take it yourself, ask someone

00:22:45

else to take it, don't ask me to click from my camera." So...

00:22:50

There was a Central Photography Section set up

00:22:52

here, was he involved with... Yes, yes. Ok

00:22:54

From the beginning it must have...

00:22:55

There very much...and when that was...all the usual

00:23:00

photographs went to that photography department.

00:23:02

Only German professors and other faculty members

00:23:05

who wanted some machine picture which they wanted...there Kuberan or Kumar... (In Tamil) What is his name?

00:23:11

Kubendran. Kubendran.

00:23:13

Kubendran used to take all the photos

00:23:15

and everything, others Gourishankar used to come.

00:23:17

He was a regular Institute photographer. Ok ok.

00:23:19

But anything outside

00:23:21

of the routine he used to ask my father.

00:23:23

After the photography department came,

00:23:26

the regular photos were all done by him, by the department.

00:23:30

But they'd still call him, like you said, for events

00:23:32

or special...yeah ok.

00:23:33

Convocation, they would call him everytime. Ok. Yes.

00:23:36

I mean the other photographers would also be taking

00:23:38

pictures. Right ok.

00:23:39

But they wanted better a coverage,

00:23:42

smaller set of pictures. Ok.

00:23:44

Yes yes. And he would give them, you know these albums

00:23:46

that you see. Yes yes.

00:23:47

And he will never take more, they will say 100 pictures,

00:23:50

no 30 or 40, or whatever the occasion demands, Exactly.

00:23:55

Yeah only that photos he will take.

00:23:56

He says "For this occasion...." The others will come, "No, we want more photos."

00:23:59

"I know, you can inform any other photographer,

00:24:01

he will take hundred times this..." Not take more than this.

00:24:03

He was very definite about how he would. Mrs. Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar: He was very definite, his cousins...[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:24:08

I want your pictures...[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:24:12

He took only 30. Yeah.

00:24:14

That is all, he...whatever the occasion demands, only those

00:24:17

photographs he'll take...nothing extra

00:24:19

30 exposures That is why,

00:24:21

thirty pictures in one album that is it. Yeah.

00:24:22

That is why, in the convocation you read that this thing...complete

00:24:25

this thing...what all the programme

00:24:28

and where all he has to take photos, the President Prize,

00:24:31

the...Prize, the Director Prize or whatever

00:24:34

and he will take the photos of those students and give it correctly

00:24:37

and exactly...number not one extra picture.

00:24:41

One audience, that is all, no more.

00:24:44

He would have the list

00:24:46

He wouldn't budge,

00:24:46

but the few...he had a good sense of humour, you know.

00:24:50

So once I think person called...some student called Vannangamudi,

00:24:58

Ok. who won a price.

00:25:00

Some Governor's Medal...whatever.

00:25:02

And then they announced it, and

00:25:05

you know he was bending his head to

00:25:08

you know, greet the person...President

00:25:10

or someone who was giving him the prize,

00:25:12

and then two people were talking to each other

00:25:15

saying that, "See his name is Vannangamudi, but he is actually

00:25:18

bending his head", and so, he took he took a picture of that.

00:25:24

Because he felt that you know It is yeah.

00:25:26

it was good. So the...only in those instances he would budge from his

00:25:31

From his list How...

00:25:34

This [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:25:36

Yeah, I remember him narrating it to his... Ok.

00:25:41

So then as he grew older, he is...did he...

00:25:44

Yes. till what age did he go on taking pictures?

00:25:46

1995 I think we finished with IIT, slowly he...

00:25:49

But till '95. Gradually he stopped taking photos,

00:25:52

only a few...this thing we used to come, Professor [Inaudible] and.

00:25:56

But at that age also he used to... He was able to do Yes yes

00:25:59

He had a lot of willpower. Ok.

00:26:01

He functioned on willpower.

00:26:03

In all his effort...photography, he has all the things.

00:26:08

But he would work 65 hours Wow.

00:26:10

Continuously. non-stop, because because, he...the moment he

00:26:14

took a break, the chemicals would go waste,

00:26:17

and he would have to mix a new set of chemicals.

00:26:21

So in order to exhaust the chemicals,

00:26:23

He would go on working. He would work anything between 40 hours

00:26:26

and 65 hours. Yes, yes.

00:26:27

Three hours...we...three days we kept awake, Yeah.

00:26:30

And then we came here with the exhibition picture.

00:26:32

They said, "Please put up Mister Gourishankar, you only know."

00:26:35

Fourth day we were here and then we went to sleep. Yeah.

00:26:38

Three days continuously

00:26:40

we were working. Oh my

00:26:41

No sleep.

00:26:41

Complete...no sleep.

00:26:44

Because the German Consulate wanted the exhibition in the IIT

00:26:46

We never knew before, that was a last minute...this thing.

00:26:50

And we came, chose a place, brought all the photos.

00:26:53

Three days without sleeping, you were working. Yes, three days!

00:26:56

Three days fully we never had slept. Never slept, that was the maximum

00:27:00

I think. Fourth day, we put up the exhibition, and went home and slept.

00:27:04

Wonderful, the...he had stamina for...the photography and other things.

00:27:08

He would begin by cleaning the dark room every time he started.

00:27:12

Yes and he was perfect at home ok. Mamata Dash: Gourishankar Collection, all Gourishankar Collection. Mamata Dash: You can just scroll

00:27:18

He was perfect at home. Can you...can you see? You can move it so, she can. [Indistinct Chatter]

00:27:21

Collection.

00:27:23

(In Tamil) No, she's showing his (Gourishankar's) collection

00:27:24

Yes, yes there it is.

00:27:27

Yeah yeah he used to call it penguin,

00:27:32

Professor Sengupto said all the penguins are...

00:27:36

Sujatha Dube: Because of that gown and... [Indistinct Chatter] Mamata Dash: This I think all albums, all the photos are there.

00:27:43

Sujatha Dube: Oh, that's so nice Sports pictures,

00:27:44

he used to take all those sports day pictures... Yeah

00:27:47

And first one again... [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:27:51

Mamata Dash: You want to see?

00:27:52

Sujatha Dube: No no, let her

00:27:53

Mamata Dash: These are all his collections.

00:27:54

Sujatha Dube: Ok, I can look at it later, yeah. Yeah.

00:27:57

Sujatha Dube: They are digitizing everything, and putting it

00:27:59

Yes yes. Sujatha Dube: up on the Heritage Centre's

00:28:00

Sujatha Dube: website... Bhaskar told me...

00:28:01

even the ones I brought today,

00:28:03

those have to be digitized. Yes yes.

00:28:06

Important occasions and other things, they has to be digitized.

00:28:10

He said all the negatives have to be digitized.

00:28:12

I brought them in four or five lots. Ok.

00:28:15

Because I found them in various places,

00:28:16

and we had shifted house.

00:28:18

So, the...today I got 34 pictures.

00:28:21

[Background Chatter] Wow.

00:28:22

The set of picture and I brought them. Yeah.

00:28:25

And it was so nice to see all the the album within the archives

00:28:28

Yeah. there...is that...

00:28:30

Because the Centre is now become...really developing well and...

00:28:33

Indira Gandhi came,

00:28:34

that was so much, this thing...the security and all. Security.

00:28:38

And three days he used to come, and get all the detail,

00:28:43

because he said, "On that day, we won't be having...

00:28:46

that will be very crowded and everything.

00:28:48

Extra care we took on that time,

00:28:50

and same way, other visitors also.

00:28:53

Anyone from Germany came.

00:28:56

In '60, '61, '62, many people, (In Tamil) From the President, all the important people from Germany came

00:29:02

I will give them...all the negatives are there Ok ok.

00:29:06

They were all so pleased, you know he...they come to the

00:29:09

carpentry section, "Shall I plane?" "Oh, yes!"

00:29:12

Professor Sengupto will stand, and he will plane,

00:29:14

and he will take a picture.

00:29:16

That is how it was, it was all very very...friendly type their this thing,

00:29:22

those days.

00:29:23

I think all of us...all students have this... So many...so many jokes he had about

00:29:26

so many humorous instances, along with those people.

00:29:30

Everybody who studied here, has great memories of the workshops.

00:29:33

Yeah yes. Workshop...[Indaudible Dialogue]

00:29:35

[Indaudible Dialogue]

00:29:37

Vijayalakshmi. See...

00:29:39

Mamata Dash: This is Indira Gandhi convocation

00:29:40

I forget the name of the workshop,

00:29:43

Mister Gourishankar, they are coming and telling me,

00:29:46

"How can you have Sarswathi puja, it is secular here,

00:29:50

we dont have any...alright...we will call...worship of the...tools.

00:29:55

We will call it only worship of the tools

00:29:58

and we are worshipping the tools that is all."

00:30:00

No pooja nothing, see, there...you know...you

00:30:03

have to live with...your tools are everything in workshop. Yes, yes.

00:30:07

This is how he used to explain everything in that.

00:30:09

This seems is that Indira Gandhi (In Tamil) The pictures from convocation for which she came

00:30:13

Yes, 9th September, you know it was changed.

00:30:16

Saturday, the thing we had to...

00:30:24

Yes, this was the thing.

00:30:27

Wonderful, they were all there. Great pictures

00:30:33

All the Directors, right from Sengupto,

00:30:37

they were all there in the...and the school, Vanavani School.

00:30:40

And it was born. Mamata Dash: Yes yes, Vanavani creation day.

00:30:42

Right from the day it was born, we were there.

00:30:44

You know we knew all the...this thing

00:30:46

because he studied in Loyola College, and the mentor here,

00:30:50

the advisor here, was his professor from Loyola and the...the...the principal.

00:30:55

They were here. (In Tamil) What was that lady's name, ma...Professor...? [Indistinct Dialogue] She had come after Vanavani was started.

00:31:04

When was Vanavani started? (In Tamil) That was also in '60s...?

00:31:07

'65.

00:31:08

'65, four or five...

00:31:09

Jebamalai... Jebamalai Peters

00:31:14

She was the first...

00:31:15

[Indistinct Chatter] Just...I remember, we were there, right from the Vanavani started

00:31:23

there, taking pictures there...pictures of Vanavani also

00:31:28

(In Tamil) When did K. V. come about? Kendriya Vidyalaya...also around?

00:31:30

Kendriya Vidyalaya, no.

00:31:31

Ok later...Vanavani was first

00:31:34

Very much later.

00:31:35

Mamata Dash: '64. Around the same time.

00:31:37

Ok. (In Tamil) After '85-'86, we had stopped...so many, coming here.

00:31:42

Only important occasions, we used to come.

00:31:45

Actually you know from the negatives,

00:31:46

That he worked here till '95, because very rare occasion

00:31:49

he used to come there. (In Tamil) In '60 he started...

00:31:52

But just then, (In Tamil) He shifted here from Guindy

00:31:57

(In Tamil) After starting then...I think in 1995 something,

00:32:00

but very gradually we stopped this thing...yeah this thing.

00:32:05

Did he gradually...(In Tamil) Generally photography, because of age or?

00:32:09

(In Tamil) He left photography Ok.

00:32:13

But...

00:32:14

Vijayalakshmi Bhaskar: Because the kind of photography he did was very strenuous.

00:32:17

And yes, they used to ask him to take photograph of books.

00:32:21

That was the...[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:32:25

An American Professor, Santa Barbara,

00:32:28

when he came here and...he did his research and everything.

00:32:32

He took a lot of photos for him.

00:32:35

And then he used to give all the write-up,

00:32:37

and then for any information, there he was, with all the details.

00:32:43

Yes.

00:32:45

Sometimes IIT students used to come, I remember,

00:32:49

tha...they...I think maybe from the Photo Club or something,

00:32:54

they used to come to and spend, you know evening and night Right.

00:32:59

watching him work and, you know

00:33:00

getting this thing... Learning...learning

00:33:02

from him, ok.

00:33:03

That so many people did.

00:33:05

My friends, Yeah.

00:33:06

relatives, and unknown people.

00:33:08

They all used to come.

00:33:10

And he'd welcome everyone. Yes yes.

00:33:13

and so many people learned photography

00:33:15

and printing, development, printing and all...he was there.

00:33:18

Tea was on the tap in our house, tea, snacks or biscuits or bananas or...

00:33:23

Somebody...(In Tamil) someone will always be coming Mungfali (groundnut),

00:33:25

whatever, because she was so busy

00:33:28

and, you know

00:33:31

she...she would just make sure there is a stock of everything.

00:33:34

So, my father would drink lot of tea in between his works.

00:33:37

So whoever was there, there was a round of tea

00:33:40

Always had tea...and whoever worked there, the carpenter,

00:33:44

the assistants, and so many other people used to...painters

00:33:49

and the negative photographers,

00:33:51

assistant photographers...they were all there, together they all treat...

00:33:55

he'd treat them exactly equal to him, there was no difference for anybody.

00:34:00

All had khaana (food) together, all had...[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:34:03

And he would eat with them, not with us.

00:34:05

And when there was an exhibition or an important occasion

00:34:08

in IIT or anything, everybody will step in, they will do any work.

00:34:13

They will take over those work, and this one will take...

00:34:16

and then the album...then the frames and all finished,

00:34:19

everyone will be helping everyone,

00:34:21

and then it will be finished on time.

00:34:23

Great teamwork.

00:34:24

Yes. Yes.

00:34:25

He inspired the

00:34:26

people like that. Yes like that.

00:34:28

Because he himself was working very very hard.

00:34:32

Right yeah. Yeah. So, you know they said, why not...

00:34:35

So he would lead by example.

00:34:36

And he encouraged them to take on,

00:34:38

in life.

00:34:39

Right.

00:34:39

You know you can't remain an assistant you can't remain this way.

00:34:43

They encouraged him to swallow their own profession

00:34:45

and how they use...best to...there was one Chellamuthu, he went to his village,

00:34:52

and he thus benefited by visiting...and even when Gourishankar died,

00:34:56

the way he helped me, I could not have managed otherwise,

00:35:00

and in later days, he helped them a lot financially, everybody,

00:35:05

and even today when he ask his assistant to bring up anything,

00:35:08

"Oh, we will do it." And the...then the people thank me and I said,

00:35:12

"Don't thank me, you thank Gourishankar."

00:35:14

But he...because he is still rubbing...that rubbing on that...

00:35:18

this thing, "We will do anything for Gourishankar",

00:35:21

"We will do anything for uncle, we will do anything for him."

00:35:24

Because that's the thing they created for him. Any problem anyone had,

00:35:30

he used to go and solve them, or put them onto people, you...those who get it solved.

00:35:36

That way he helped everybody, he had an empathy for everyone,

00:35:40

and that still continues, even after so many years,

00:35:44

people just tell me, "Gourishankar (In Tamil) immediately, he will do anything...Chittappa (uncle) [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:35:49

and because relatives, friends, everybody will help. Photography and...generallly.

00:35:54

They all have such great memories. Generally generally generally, he had.

00:35:58

Our house itself was a 200 year old house.

00:36:01

It was just rebuilt once I think.

00:36:03

It was a street house in Nungambakkam,

00:36:07

where the front entrance was on one street, and the back...

00:36:11

back door was.

00:36:12

(In Tamil) Like an Agraharam

00:36:13

Agraharam house. With cowshed, with car garage,

00:36:17

With tulasi maadam, with a second kitchen for functions.

00:36:21

I didn't know there were such houses in Chennai

00:36:23

Court yard (In Tamil) I have seen it somewhere in Trivandrum Yes.

00:36:24

Courtyard and huge...big corridor,

00:36:27

and hall, and this thing...upstairs there was a big hall,

00:36:31

and we just created...painted...[Overlapping Conversation]

00:36:34

It's a heritage building.

00:36:35

Yeah yeah. (In Tamil) Now? Now it is gone,

00:36:36

we sold it long ago.

00:36:38

And then, background he used to paint one wall at the background

00:36:42

and all the photography was done there,

00:36:44

and the huge house, I think had all the things.

00:36:47

But later on he took nature photography.

00:36:49

And one wall he refused to let it be painted,

00:36:52

because he said it looks good as it is.

00:36:55

Because it shouldn't be even.

00:36:56

And then he took on photography, he used to do outside only.

00:37:01

In nature...nature light, everyone.

00:37:04

My mama’s (uncle's) daughter came, said, "Please take a photo."

00:37:07

He used to take the photo in the background...in the...behind

00:37:10

in a, near the all the palm trees and coconut trees.

00:37:12

That photo came out so well, they wrote back saying, "We are going

00:37:17

and looking at the photo every minute, I think that

00:37:19

Its so nice I have...never nobody has taken such picture of ours."

00:37:24

See, very high ceiling. Right.

00:37:26

So that is why he could do the enlargements

00:37:29

with the enlarger mounted on the loft Ok ok.

00:37:33

The negative used to stand...withstand all the big fine enlargement. Ok.

00:37:38

And he took a photo of Madurai temple,

00:37:42

he climbed one gopuram,

00:37:43

Oh my! He wasn't allowed, he took permission,

00:37:46

and then took the photo of southern gopuram

00:37:48

Nobody had that view at that height.

00:37:50

Who climbs up a gopuram? Yeah,

00:37:52

his friend from geological survey had gone with him.

00:37:55

"Ma, was holding to his shirt,

00:37:57

it was just sheer drop."

00:38:00

And he would take on taking photos and wait for the clouds,

00:38:03

and the picture had won so, many prizes

00:38:05

and Karumuttu Thiagarajan Chettiar from Madurai,

00:38:08

he took a large size enlargement of it, painted,

00:38:11

still there with him, Ramaswami chittappa (paternal uncle),

00:38:15

took it along and it is still there with him, he said, "I never knew

00:38:19

negative could stand this enlargement." It was perfect, clear

00:38:24

picture of that size, 60 by 40. Wow.

00:38:27

60 inches and That angle is impossible to get, unless

00:38:30

you take it from one gopuram,

00:38:33

and you know there are these holes in the gopurams,

00:38:36

he got to the edge of...inner edge of the holes Oh my.

00:38:40

so that you don't see the window like appearance. Yes.

00:38:43

So it looks as if you are viewing the other gopuram

00:38:45

from somewhere in mid-air.

00:38:48

This wasn't seen at all, the gopuram wasn't seen it...

00:38:51

It would be fantastic view.

00:38:52

Lying on his tummy for

00:38:54

hours, and his friend was holding onto...

00:38:56

On the gopuram...(In Tamil) Oh my!

00:38:58

Geological survey friend came and saidt, "We are doing some digging

00:39:01

and...at Thiruvannamalai, please come along."

00:39:04

He took photographs of the temple,

00:39:06

and the rice planting there, and also they were digging and

00:39:10

geological work. All three came,

00:39:13

but geological work of course, we printed and gave it to the department.

00:39:17

But this rice planting and Thiruvannamalai temple pictures

00:39:22

still, they are there, and all large size, because for the exhibition,

00:39:26

and small size, they have...exhibition pictures...small size pictures [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:39:31

I see. just 34 pictures (In Tamil) he kept in exhibition.

00:39:35

You should hold an exhibition

00:39:37

of his pictures.

00:39:38

Yes, they are having in...I think August.

00:39:40

We never got along to...he never believed in

00:39:42

Having a... having an exhibition, or in submitting his photos for competitions.

00:39:48

Ok. If someone called him and exhibited a photo,

00:39:52

and said, "This is very nice," it's ok.

00:39:54

But that is the only kind of recognition

00:39:56

that he...otherwise he will not go into...

00:39:58

And he doesn't take.

00:39:59

Just the picture was enough for him, getting the perfect picture. Yeah, yeah

00:40:01

that was enough. Yeah, any wedding, any birthday, any occasion,

00:40:05

presented pictures. So everyone was happy,

00:40:08

"Oh, there is Gourishankar's photo, oh there is..."

00:40:10

Professor Thomas from Alliance Française "That is your visiting card."

00:40:16

There everyone had pictures,

00:40:18

presented by Gourishankar.

00:40:20

Various pictures from various...statues and all.

00:40:23

So they all had pictures, because he used to present them right

00:40:26

and left to everybody.

00:40:28

Anyone who valued his work,

00:40:30

They got the picture...some.

00:40:32

If you can, you should write about all those times,

00:40:35

it will be very interest...with his pictures, make a beautiful book, I think.

00:40:39

If you, if you have the time. Yeah yeah.

00:40:43

Because you were there throughout with him, you saw everything.

00:40:45

Exactly.

00:40:46

She worked with him. You worked with him, you know all the details.

00:40:49

[Indistinct Dialogue] Kalyan...Kalyan Sundaram from State Bank of India

00:40:54

he was a very [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:40:55

So Appa (father)...[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:40:58

And he wrote such a...[Indistinct Dialogue]...Appa (father) replied, "Kalyan,

00:41:07

you have helped me so much, I stood in front of the mirror I find a halo in front of me."

00:41:13

"You praise me so much, you deserve all the praise."

00:41:16

I'll come and meet Professor...[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:41:17

His fellow students,

00:41:19

like this person from Geological Survey.

00:41:22

From from his M. A. Geology class, and from Geological Survey,

00:41:26

they used to have a lot of regard for him,

00:41:28

because even the 10 years or so, that he spent in GSI,

00:41:33

He...his mapping was so perfect,

00:41:35

that even to this day, they dont have to alter it,

00:41:37

even by an inch.

00:41:39

And now Jayanth showed me (In Tamil) in is there in the internet, you put Geological Survey,

00:41:42

and there is Gourishankar. Yeah.

00:41:45

With all these surveys done in various front, from Bihar and Madras.

00:41:48

Wow.

00:41:49

Sunderbans, everywhere he has...

00:41:51

Yeah, when he resigned, Professor...[Overlapping Conversation]

00:41:56

(In Tamil) I though he would give a survey...report and go.

00:42:01

He has given perfect reports of all the places,

00:42:06

he used to enjoy writing the reports.

00:42:08

Wonderful, and the survey they used to do, wonderful in each quartz,

00:42:13

in each stone, and he had a lovely rockery at home,

00:42:16

in the garden he had a huge big house I told you with a [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:42:21

The background...backyard was a very huge place,

00:42:24

he had a beautiful rockery, and inside the house, almirahs

00:42:28

contained all the rocks, and his friends used to tell

00:42:31

they bring the hammer, they bring the rock, Gouri is the best person to trim.

00:42:36

He will trim each one beautifully.

00:42:38

You know they get the rock from the...this thing,

00:42:41

Yeah. then it has to be trimmed in a nice way.

00:42:43

Correct. To show the correct...

00:42:45

of the rock, and his friends used to have just fingertips about all

00:42:50

the rocks, Professor Gopalan and all.

00:42:52

And they used to come, and we had a beautiful almirah fullt,

00:42:56

and a rockery in the garden of the geological...

00:42:59

that helped him a lot in photography.

00:43:02

GSI, geology...

00:43:04

and I asked him, "If that was geology and that started...

00:43:08

and you took it because you liked, if there was...otherwise

00:43:11

what would you have taken?" "I would have taken archaeology

00:43:14

or architecture." Both of them weren't there then...

00:43:19

He loved buildings and history

00:43:22

Because he used to paint a lot. Oh ok.

00:43:23

I got pictures of his painting of his professor,

00:43:27

He draws and paints my sister-in-law's picture.

00:43:30

He draws and paints beautifully.

00:43:32

She got it, painting and all. Ok.

00:43:35

(In Tamil) He knows it well.

00:43:36

So... He used to write also, he was a very

00:43:38

good writer.

00:43:39

[Indistinct Dialogue]

00:43:47

He used to...he used to write in

00:43:52

Times of India, Sujatha Dube: Ok.

00:43:53

those days. Sujatha Dube: Ok.

00:43:53

Sujatha Dube: So do you have those?

00:43:55

Anywhere we went he used to write articles. Sujatha Dube: Ok.

00:43:57

I got all his articles, yes they were...they were printed in paper and magazines,

00:44:02

Times of India, Illustrated Weekly, all had his articles, yes. Mamata Dash: He has written one article in...

00:44:07

I have seen the article this one,

00:44:09

the 'Dear oh Dear', 'Oh Dear, Deer!' yes I have this...is very nice.

00:44:12

He used to enjoy reading Campastimes, Ok.

00:44:14

so he contributed this

00:44:15

Very nice, this is very well...funny...funnily written.

00:44:18

And anywhere he went, he took photographs,

00:44:21

he will come home, write an article and attach the photo

00:44:24

and send it to the paper, and there it was.

00:44:26

This is very interesting, he talks about about how he needed to buy

00:44:29

camouflage with green hat...

00:44:31

Such preparation na, before.

00:44:33

And all the archaeology people used to come home

00:44:35

because of Dr. C. Minakshi is out there.

00:44:37

They used to tell Gourishankar, "Go here, take photos, this will be nice." [Indistinct Dialogue]

00:44:42

Go to this place, that place, he went all over,

00:44:47

took photos, and he used to write article and send it to paper.

00:44:51

The photographs are still there, and the articles are also

00:44:54

there, cuttings, I have kept them.

00:44:56

That is very nice.

00:44:56

All the cutting...and he also stored scrapbook.

00:45:00

Cuttings of all interesting articles, not a scrapbook exactly,

00:45:05

they were collection of very good pictures, and same way, arts.

00:45:10

Any picture, any painting, any art, he used to collect, a big scrapbook of.

00:45:16

So he had many interests...

00:45:17

He was interested in so many things, not only photography.

00:45:21

To keep up with them. Because he got very tied up with being a With the...

00:45:24

professional photographer. Ok.

00:45:25

When he was a geologist,

00:45:26

he could Yes.

00:45:28

But this was much more time consuming, And and any

00:45:31

art exhibitions, he will be there.

00:45:33

In this thing...the Lalit Kala Akademi...

00:45:36

Akademi, wherever he used to...in the museum anywhere,

00:45:40

any exhibition he will be there,

00:45:42

and he used to be judge in the tourist department.

00:45:46

He used to call him for being a judge, Mahabalipuram and other places.

00:45:51

Where the tourist guides were given an examination, oral examination.

00:45:55

He used to go along and be a judge there,

00:45:58

because he used to ask the correct question as...[Inaudible Dialogue]

00:46:01

tourist department visiting will attend them,

00:46:05

and correctly he said, "These students answer very well."

00:46:10

In this thing.

00:46:12

Mister M. Krishnan used to come and watch him work,

00:46:15

and he used to go to...we were family friends. Ok.

00:46:18

He would visit him,

00:46:20

you know as he was developing his wildlife pictures, Right.

00:46:24

He also had very nice documents very nice...

00:46:27

he did all his photography work himself, apart from that

00:46:31

he was a writer. M. Krishnan wrote in 'Statesman,'

00:46:34

and any...they had...we had very good conversation.

00:46:38

"Gourishankar you told me this today,

00:46:40

I must write it in my next article."

00:46:42

And there in the next 'Statesman' it will be there.

00:46:46

That is why the conversation we had, and...the and how much we learnt,

00:46:51

that was the thing...how much we learnt from all

00:46:54

these various friends and acquaintances, is remarkable.

00:47:00

And they also said, "We also learnt equally from you."

00:47:03

Both of them, he did...when he was doing his photography,

00:47:07

they were both attending to my grandmother,

00:47:09

Yes. who was a bedridden patient.

00:47:11

Oh ok.

00:47:12

Arthritis patient.

00:47:13

So, on the one hand, they would do the photography,

00:47:15

And take...that's also very time... continuously take care of...

00:47:18

see, in those days no attenders...

00:47:20

He looked after his mother very well.

00:47:23

So, he had to do much of it yourself, (In Tamil) Isn't it? Yes.

00:47:24

Both of them looked after my grandmother,

00:47:27

because she needed handling.

00:47:29

She was...she was

00:47:30

completely bedridden. Poor...

00:47:32

1953 I got married,

00:47:35

'55 she fell ill, till 1967...she died...for 12 years,

00:47:40

you took care of her. Yes.

00:47:42

In with all the... With all this

00:47:44

Viji, Viji baby... And with children and...

00:47:47

Only Jayam was born later on, my son was born after she died.

00:47:50

But Viji was a baby, and my photography, and my mother-in-law there.

00:47:54

Oh my, three full time jobs

00:47:57

Yes. Yes.

00:47:58

All in the same house, you know

00:48:01

We had very good servants, very good cook,

00:48:05

and people to help, anytime, because we were there in that house,

00:48:10

right from 1807, Gourishankar’s great great grandfather

00:48:16

had bought the house from the East India Company.

00:48:18

We had all those papers.

00:48:20

And, right from that time, we were there in Nungambakam

00:48:23

in that house, which was demolished and built again and again,

00:48:27

but the later house was so beautiful, everyone else

00:48:30

said, "Gourishankar please will this house to me!"

00:48:34

Unfortunately, it was co-owned by many other people,

00:48:37

so it had to be sold

00:48:37

It had to be sold

00:48:39

He couldn't afford to buy it by himself. Yes.

00:48:42

It must have cost. He was sentimentally very attached to it.

00:48:46

But it was one of those...

00:48:47

He must have grown up there then, if his great grand....born and grown...

00:48:49

Born and grown up.

00:48:50

You have any other question that you want to ask?

00:48:51

No I don't have any that's it.

00:48:53

Is there anything else you would like to say or add?

00:48:56

I [don't think so. Yeah.

00:48:59

Thank you again, this was wonderful talking to... Thank you very much.

00:49:02

Thank you.

00:49:03

I the recalled all the nostalgic memory and this thing about Gourishankar.

00:49:09

I hope you have you can write about it,

00:49:11

I am sure it would be a great book. Yeah yeah.

00:49:14

Thank you.

00:49:15

Thank you, thank you.