Prof. H. Md. Roshan in conversation with Prof. B.S.Murty.
Welcome Professor Roshan.
Thanks for coming and being with us in this campus,
your own campus, I know.
And, you have been a stalwart here,
in the area of foundry.
Spent a large number of years.
I heard that, '67 you came here.
And, I would like to know, first of all, about your...
What brought you to IIT Madras? Okay,
Professor Murty, I wish to thank you very much.
I wish to thank you,
I wish to thank Mamata,
and Kumaran and Rajaraman,
for giving an opportunity to speak to you today.
I am really very happy to talk to you,
and whatever questions which you have got. Thank you.
Thank you. You asked me about
what brought me here.
I will tell you briefly about my background and how I Yes, sir
came over here. We would like to know about your
background education before coming to IIT Madras,
and then what really motivated you to come here.
and then, you did wonderful work, I know that,
we will come to that a little later. Yes, Professor.
When I completed my high school,
it was called SSLC,
now it is not, no longer there.
So, I completed my SSLC in 1957. Where was that professor?
Where, where was that, which place? In Markapur.
There is one town in Kurnool district, Markapur.
And then, my mother and my dad, they sent me
to Loyola College, Vijayawada
it is called. Andhra Loyola College. Vijayawada Loyola College.
I know.
So, I went there. Incidentally,
I studied in a college which was just adjacent to that.
There is a government polytechnic
next to Andhra Loyola College,
and I did my diploma in that polytechnic, just...
I, yeah. just for your information, that is it.
I know that, it is in Gurazala. yeah.
I know about the polytechnic also. Wonderful, I mean very
well known place, Loyola College,
everybody talks about it.
So, '57, at that time,
there was no...the plus 2 was not there.
So, it was PUC.
PUC, correct. So, that was my, the last batch of the PUC.
PUC. I did my PUC, I got.
Then, I applied for engineering colleges.
I was underaged.
So, they could, I could not get into engineering college.
So, I had to do one year of BA over there. BA, okay.
So, and then, and then, '58 I completed. Okay.
And then, I applied for engineering college.
At that time, in Tirupati,
University College of Engineering, they started. So.
S.V. University, University College. Yes.
First batch, I belonged to the first batch of
Sri Venkateswara University College of Engineering. Was that the first
engineering college in Andhra, sir? No.
Anantapur, Anantapur is another engineering college. Anantapur, okay.
It is a government engineering college. What about Vizag,
Andhra University was not there those days?
That is Andhra University, that is separate.
So, so you, you belong to Vijayawada, that area?
Correct. So, okay.
Correct. So, so, I got a seat there.
So, 1959 to 1963.
Okay, that was 4 years.
No, it was actually 5 years,
it is a 5 year programme. Okay.
And... I heard, those days it used to always
to be, always 5 years. 5 years.
What happened was, at that time
the Indo-China War was there,
so accelerated course.
We graduated, instead of in, normally in June,
we graduated in December 1963 itself. Okay.
So, we graduated in December
and then, the master’s degree, they will not open
until the next June.
Okay. Then, we went and there was a our
principal, the special officer called
sir Ram Krishnan, he said
"okay, now you have completed this one,
would you be interested in teaching?"
So, I joined immediately Wow.
as an associate lecturer in mechanical engineering
in SVU College of Engineering. Okay.
I did for about 6 months.
Then, at that time, Indian Institute of Science,
Foundry Engineering was a very, very
sought after course for the students.
Under Mechanical Engineering department. Under Mechanical Engineering department.
they have... There, people were there
you know, Professor Seshadri,
I mean, who, with
whom you were there, Professor? 100,
So, I was with Professor M. N. Srinivasan.
M. N. Srinivasan. But how I went to
Bangalore is, in those days
the admissions of master’s degree,
there was no entrance exam Gate.
no gate. No gate. Nothing was there.
The only criterion is, you should be
first rank holder in the university. Wow.
Every first rank holder
if he applies, he will get it.
Elite group of the country
sitting there, wonderful!
You are one of those.
Only 10, only 10 students.
Only 10. All 10 were toppers of some university.
All. I belong to S. V. University, then, Okay.
There was the Madras University,
two people, Osmania University, one person
Banaras...like that, we were 10 people. Wonderful, wonderful.
Wow. So, that is how I went to
Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore.
The head of the, there
the foundry science was
in Mechanical Engineering department. Mechanical.
Head of the Department is
Professor A. Ramachandran.
A. Ramachandran. So, in the first day, when you go
you go and meet the head of the department.
That is the normal protocol practice.
When you enter the room, he will say,
"come in Mr. Roshan," he will say.
We will wonder, "how does he know my name,
for the, he, he did not see me
for the first time he is, he is asking."
Before we come, he reads
everybody’s etcetera etcetera.
And then, that is how I joined the foundry.
Then, Professor Seshadri
was my... Professor Seshadri, he taught me.
So, Professor Seshadri and Professor
Malur Srinivasan from
Mandyam Srinivasan. Mandyam Srinivasan.
So, I did my the masters' work
with sir Mandyam Srinivasan.
So, 2 years were over.
After... There was also one
aluminium foundry professor, K. S. S.?
Srinivasa Murthy. Murthy.
Professor, professor he was also... Srinivasa Murthy.
He also taught us.
Professor Seshan, Professor Mandyam Srinivasan, Correct, correct, correct.
Professor Seshadri. So, Professor Seshadri was...
Yes. Although, I did not do my master's,
but still he is a,
he is a wonderful teacher so, Wonderful teacher.
I was always associated. That was a
2 year programme, Professor?
2 year programme. Okay, those days it was
now, possibly, you are aware that now
master's became one and half year.
When I did my master's, it was one and half,
then again, now it came back to 2 years.
No, no, no, it was not
one and half years, it was 2 years.
So, it was 1964 and 1966.
Then, when we take the advice of the
Head of the Department, Professor A. Ramchandran,
he says, "you are a foundry engineer,
you should work in an industry."
No, no academics?
No academics etcetera.
So, then where are the jobs?
there are no jobs in...
anywhere. So, they say,
"go to Bombay, there are jobs."
We took a ticket, just took it, sat in the train,
went to Bombay, at that time
to search for a job.
So, then what happened was, then you...
No campus interviews, nothing, those days?
No campus interviews, nothing. Okay.
So, then? Now, things are all different.
Then, you should see in the newspaper
daily, in the daily in the morning,
and then, try to find out its advertisement.
Then, first I went to die casting foundry.
So, even at Indian Institute of Science,
I passed with distinction. Distinction. '
Again, I got the first rank. First rank?
In the MTech, ME. ME.
And then, I got, one person in
die casting foundry, he offered me a job.
But, it was a small shop.
Then, there is another company called
New Standard Engineering Company in Bombay.
It is a iron foundry,
with a Polish collaboration.
and then, about 400 tonnes of gray iron
and maximum weight of the casting is 20 tonnes.
So, they also make the induction furnaces.
Tagliaferi induction furnaces
and I went there and took the interview.
And they said, "okay, we will give you a job."
So, I got the job.
So, you spent just, looks like only 1 year
was it very hard job; that is what made you
come to academics immediately?
'67 you came to IIT Madras, I know. Yeah.
So, '66 to '67 just 1 year in,
That was a... in foundry?
That was due to my personal reasons.
In the sense, when I was doing my master's,
my dad passed away.
Okay, so. Sorry to hear that.
Then, what happened was, then my mother was in.
So, she was... So, you need to take care of her.
I was to, I had to take her, so she was ill.
So, 1967 my mother passed away.
So, I had to Okay.
shift my place from Bombay.
So, you came back to, closer to Andhra.
Then, what happened was,
I came down to my Kurnool
where my mother was there.
When she passed within,
I resigned my job in, in Bombay.
But, I need a job.
That is true.
So, there are, 2 openings were there.
Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore -
a lecturers' post. Okay.
And then, Indian Institute of Technology,
was a associate lecturers' post.
I applied for both of them.
And then, what happened was,
I got an interview in
Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore.
So, I was about to go over there,
but my mother was sick.
So, I said, "I will not go."
So, I... So, you missed the interview?
I missed the interview. Okay.
But. That was the... It was, it was good for me.
That was a blessing for IIT Madras.
I mean, we got you,
and it is amazing, amazing
to hear that. It was a, it was good
for me too. And then, what happened was,
I came over here,
and I attended the interview. Okay.
And then, during the interview,
Professor E. G. Ramachandran, they were there.
So, associate lecturer, Some 500 rupees
job etcetera, then they offered.
Then, they asked me, "okay, you are qualified."
Lecturer is only master’s degree,
there is no PhD requirement in those days. Requirement in those days?
So, they said, "why did you...
we had interviews recently for
the lecturers' post, Lecturers' post.
why did you not apply?" "I did not know.
So, why don't you offer me a lecturers' post?"
"No, no, no, we cannot offer, We cannot offer you...
because we advertised only for..." Well,
IIT Madras goes by advertisement.
"No, no, no, but
when the next advertisement comes, Next
advertisement. "you apply and take your chance, okay."
So, I got in 1967 September,
I got my associate lecturers' job.
I came over here,
that was the best thing that has happened to me.
And then, Professor E. G. Ramachandran
was head of the department,
he was very nice to me.
And then, one Professor Zeurn was there.
So, at that time, Germans were there, in the...all the...
I heard that, I heard that.
So, coordinate, although he is,
Professor Zeurn belongs to welding,
but still, he was in Metallurgy department.
Okay. So, he was coordinating the
Foundry activity. foundry activities, etcetera.
So, that is how I came to IIT.
So, that is how I answer your question about
how I came to IIT. That is wonderful, wonderful.
Yeah, wonderful. Was there anybody else
along with you, in the foundry area, those days?
Professor O. Prabhakar, for example,
he joined after you or much later?
No, he joined in later,
because '70...in the '67, I joined.
Then, '68 there was again,
as I told you, there was another
advertisement for lecturers.
Okay, this wass in 6 months.
I became a lecturer in '68.
Professor Prabhakar, he joined immediately, later. Okay.
By one year, one year later. So, the foundry division or
foundry research activity, or teaching
cum research activity started with you, here.
At that time, when I joined in '67,
there was no master's programme in foundry at all.
There was nothing, no,
it was all about the physical,
very strong in physical metallurgy. Very strong.
Professor Vasudevan, Professor Vasudevan... With particularly Vasudevan.
Vasudevan, Professor
E. G. R. himself. Sreenivasa Raghavan.
Professor E. G. R. himself.
They are all physical metallurgists. Correct, correct, correct.
So, but, Professor E. G. Ramachandran, he had a vision
that industrial metallurgy is... Sure, sure, sure.
I was the only person
who had a master’s degree in foundry. Sure, sure.
So, I knew the programme of
how to write the syllabus.
It is not a simple thing,
to write the syllabus for all the...
So, we started Industrial Metallurgy.
Industrial Metallurgy? MTech in Industrial Metallurgy. With the, with the 3 different.
M.Tech. ME in... ME.
In those days, master's, ME in. Okay,
No, still they used to call it as ME here. ME.
No, here, MTech. Sorry it is MTech MTech.
So, you started MTech in... MTech.
Industrial Metallurgy. Industrial metal...metal casting,
metal joining and Metal joining.
and metal forming. So, 3 divisions.
So, I was there for... You are, you are
kind of leading the. Yeah. Yeah.
metal casting... With of course, Professor E. G. Ramachandran
was the Head of the Department also.
That is how master’s degree, MTech programme
in Industrial Metallurgy was started.
But, at the BTech level also, were you
teaching casting, those days?
Of course, there was one course
called Foundry Engineering, in BTech Okay.
and, I used to take,
as soon as I came in '67,
first job that was given to me was
to teach that course.
And also, there was...industrial design also was there.
Okay, okay. So, I used to give the projects and...
But usually, in IISc you see that the
foundry area is under mechanical.
Why did that not happen here,
in IIT Madras, any...you have some ideas?
That I do not know.
Because, material science it can be, see,
So, somehow. It is a Metallurgy for some...
Metallurgy for some reason or other in
BHU or everywhere.
Even, even in Indian Institute of Science,
there is a Metallurgy department.
But, that was more academic oriented. Yeah.
Possibly, Yeah.
They thought that foundry is a
typically an industrial kind of a thing.
So. That could possibly.
Yeah mostly. Whereas,
Yeah, but is. Here it is
mostly, you know, there was a
lot of emphasis on industry
from the beginning, I heard here,
particularly, as you said,
industrial metallurgy as an MTech starting,
that itself would be
something which I...I do not think in IISC,
you can hear something of that nature.
It is all about the vision of the
heads of the department.
Because Professor A. Ramchandran
he was a heat transfer person. Ok.
So, in those days;
in those days to visualize,
so, he was always about industry.
Yes. He was always telling, "okay,
if you have a master’s degree, it's better to
serve the industry, to get... Industry.
to get the experience. Correct.
So, when I came over here,
So, '66 to '67 there was a faculty can register
as a PhD programme. PhD student.
So, I registered with Professor E. G. Ramachandran.
So, Professor A. Ramachandran was the director,
but still he used to help me.
Because, he is a heat transfer person.
My problem was, for the PhD,
thermal properties of mould materials
using the Shell moulding process. Thermal property, Shell moulding.
you will appreciate, even today,
determination of thermal properties is
extremely useful for solidification of
simulation softwares. Definitely, definitely.
So, in those days, he could visualize it.
And, Professor Seshadri,
Professor E. G. Ramachandran was my guide.
Yeah. So, he gave me a
lot of The whole microstructure
evolution depends on the
thermal properties, right. Thermal properties.
How, how fast it is cooling.
Yeah, Professor...Professor E. G. Ramachandran
really helped me with all my
PhD work etcetera. Good, good.
So, that I submitted my thesis in '71,
and then, all the... Were you, were you kind of first
PhD from the department?
Yes. I heard this.
I am the first PhD from the Metallurgy,
Metallurgy department. Wow.
You have so many distinctions.
And then, then what happened was, in '71. Wonderful.
So, there is an opportunity to...all the
faculty will be sent to Germany. Germany, okay.
So, in Germany, Geyser Institute, Aachen,
Aachen. is the premier institute in.
Correct. in Europe.
Before the second World War,
there were only two institutions,
Geyser Institute, Aachen in Germany
and Geyser Institute, Krakow in Poland.
Okay. These are the,
the best foundry research institutes.
So, It is easy from... You went there.
because it is a German collaboration,
So, I got an...it was called DAAD. DAAD.
So, German academic exchange service. DAAD correct, correct.
So, I got a this one, so.
How long was that about year or? 2 years.
2 years. It is, it is a 2 year...
Were you married by then, Professor?
I will tell you about that one also.
What happened was, '71 I went there.
Because, I submitted the thesis and left immediately.
So, my viva voce was not there.
So, you had to come back.
What happened was, in '72 my reports came,
I have to take the viva
and the same... No skype those days.
No, no skype, not only that one...
There was an advertisement for an
assistant professors' post.
Okay. You cannot apply for assistance professor post
unless you have a PhD.
Submission of a thesis
is not equivalent of a PhD. So, you have to Is not equivalent.
complete your viva, okay. I have to complete my viva.
Then only I will be considered. You can apply for a PhD.
I can be considered, it can be absentia.
You do not have to be. You can be absentia. Yeah, it can be in absentia.
So, what I did was, I flew.
from Germany. Yeah.
Just to take the viva voce
examination. Just for a week. Just for a week or so.
At that time I met my wife. Good.
So, we had our engagement at that time. Wonderful. Wonderful.
Then, '72. It was '72
Then, I went back again. Went back again.
There was a, there was a...
the interview for the assistant professors',
I was promoted to be
assistant professor. So, no, not even a telephonic interview?
No. It was just in absentia?
they just looked at your CV.
Yeah. And then, based on the CV.
Yeah, because I was already there
so there is, so, I became an assistant professor. So. Okay.
I became an associate professor in a similar fashion.
Yeah. At IIT Kharagpur.
Ok. So, in absentia, I was in Japan
doing something there.
Ok, nice to hear, Professor.
And then, then '73, I came back. '73
you came back. We got married in
in '73. '73.
And the next day, was my convocation.
My marriage was there on 9th,
10th was the convocation here. Okay.
So, we flew.
So, you both flew, okay.
And then. Then, I got the... Okay.
At that time, Professor Pandalai was the
Ok, so you got your PhD degree.
Director and then, Wonderful.
She was also there. Wonderful.
So, '73 I got my PhD. Then, I was busy because
I learnt quite a lot.
My experience in Aachen. In Aachen.
Very good. Was so...sand, there...
there I worked with the sand. Sand?
So, Professor Zeurn helped me.
Professor E. G. Ramachandran and Professor Zeurn, they helped
to set up a laboratory, so. Okay.
My laboratories in sand testing were the best
People always talk about you. Yeah so
in those days. When somebody talks about
Professor Roshan, it is sand.
Sand, so I was a consultant, so. You were seem to be a
stalwart in sand. Yeah.
Sand, because I learnt quite a lot
about sand. Yeah.
So, I was knowing
very much about sand. Sand is a...
sand also is a basic raw material for making the castings. Okay.
So, sand has to be extremely
pure in order to make those things.
So, I started my PhD students.
Okat, that is my start of PhD students, because
Okay. you cannot guide a student unless
you have a PhD. You have a PhD.
So, '73 obviously, I have PhD. Okay.
Then I had some...later on about 20 people
got their PhDs and did their... Did they Professor O.P. also
do PHD with you? No.
No, no, both of us did with
Professor E. G. Ramachandran, okay. Professor E. G. R. Okay, good.
So, then the '73, '73 to
'77, I was very busy working.
My wife looked after my house.
So, I was with my students.
So, my students were extremely good.
Day and night we were working etcetera.
So, quite a number of papers were
getting published and the students got them.
'77, there were again
interviews for the professors', professors' post.
Professors' post. Must be very young by that time, 35?
34, I was the youngest. 34, youngest professor.
I was the youngest.
Yes. One of the youngest professors.
Wonderful wonderful. Maybe the youngest professor.
Now, it is tough.
34 is not easy to become a professor here,
usually it happens between 40 and 45, or so.
I was 39 when I became a professor,
that itself was considered, in Kharagpur, very early.
Yeah. Good to hear that. So, 34.
And then, what happened was I applied for
the Alexander von Humboldt Fellowship.
Wonderful. So, I got a junior.
very, very prestigious fellowship.
fellowship I got and I had to go.
And then, my interviews are there.
So, I got my letter of professorship
In June. That you are selected for the ?
And next week I left for Germany.
And because of, I was, I am a professor,
so, they gave me senior fellowship; they upgraded.
Upgraded. My fellowship from
this one... Junior to senior.
Senior fellow, alexander.
Where were you, you are again in Aachen? University of Karlsruhe, here.
Karlsruhe, yeah. No I went to University of
Karlsruhe. Karlsruhe with Professor Makarav.
So, '77 to '78, I was there.
One and half years, although, 2 years, I came back.
So, '78 we came back.
As soon as I came back, Professor Narayanmurthi
was the director. Headship is waiting for you, I heard.
So, he called me one day, "you want to
take the headship?" "Of course."
Then, Professor Srinivas Raghavan was the
Head of the Department. Previous Head of the Department?
So, I became in '78.
And, '78 to '82, it was a pleasure.
It was a pleasure. Wonderful.
Not that is it was a...
wonderful experience for me
Correct. to lead the department.
and Head of the Departments'
job is very interesting.
You have got...you can do quite a lot of
Correct, correct. contribution.
So, that is the period. Can you can you just
recall a few major contributions that came
from you as the Head of the Department,
in the department?
We organized several seminars.
One of the seminars was an international seminar
Very good. with Professor Krishna Shastri on solidification
heat transfer, so.
Very good. We invited from all over the world.
Good.
There was a
metal processing seminar,
that is one of the contributions.
And I also, I feel very glad, one of my contribution is
Metallurgy seminar hall.
I just heard of that. Metallurgy seminar hall was
I believe, was my...
I did, I took a good decision to convert.
Yeah. Because, the ground floor
we had to, there was no seminar hall, we used to
True, true, true. organize any meetings
etcetera. Any meeting, any lectures for
visitors. So, Head of the Department,
Major contribution, very important
contribution. Head of the Department has the resources.
And then, he had the power, so True.
one lecture hall was converted.
It is a good decision, I believe.
So, that Yeah, we are all really enjoying that.
Yeah. Of course, you may be possibly aware
that, soon in about four, five months from now,
most probably March - April,
we will be moving
from the Mechanical Sciences block
to a new academic complex,
where we have been provided with
two floors. It is a five storey building,
where two floors are dedicated to Metallurgy.
So, all the, most of the facilities
from MSB, we will be moving there
including all the faculty members.
We have about thirty faculty rooms there,
four visiting faculty rooms,
things like that and
seminar hall, we may have to part with.
So, just...s,o next year if you
come, you would come to another seminar hall,
not to MSB 104 anymore.
That would belong to Applied Mechanics now.
So, Applied Mechanics do not have
enough space and they are also
growing in a big way.
So, the institute decided that MSB, that
part they will give it to Applied Mechanics
and then, we move to a new building.
Another contribution is,
ability to attract good faculty
to the department - Professor Padmanabhan.
He joined during your time? Yeah.
When I was the... Wonderful.
Who are the other faculty during your time?
Who joined as faculty?
S. K. Seshadri
Okay. Another Stalwart.
Yeah, yeah. Corrosion.
Yeah, yeah. Everybody knows.
Yeah he was, he was there.
Very good. So,
so, we had... it was a good this one -
attracting the good faculty and
then provide and also,
the building...the
infrastructure inside the True, true.
Department. You used to also work with a lot of
foundry industries here?
Another contribution, I believe is,
we had a system of external registration from industry.
Okay. So, I had
one Dr. Seshadri, M. S. Seshadri
From India Pistons. India pistons.
So, he is the chief metallurgist, so, Correct, correct.
he did his PhD with me.
And then, when I was
doing my master's, my engineering...
How I went to Indian Institute of Science is,
my metallurgy...the the person who taught me
metallurgy, Professor Rangaswami,
he did his master's in
Indian Institute of Science. Indian Institute of Science.
He only told us. Correct.
It is very difficult to get into this.
So, our interest was...that is how
I went to Indian Institute of Science. True, true, true.
And, Professor Rangaswami. That was my dream, when I was
doing my undergrad also.
And, Professor Rangaswami, he was a;
he was a professor, but he
wanted to become a head of the...the PhD.
So, he did his PhD with me.
My teacher, Okay.
became my student. Your
teacher became your student, very strange. So,
that was... Yeah, very unique
opportunity you had.
That was very nice. And later on, That is great, that is great.
another two of my classmates from
Your BTech Engineering. University College of Engineering,
they also got their PhD with me. With you.
And then, from Ennore Foundries.
Ennore Foundries. Now, I think, it is called Hinduja Foundry.
Correct. Ennore Foundries, so
there... one of my student, is now working there. Yeah.
Two people, Dr. Venkoba Rao,
so, he did his PhD with me.
Very good, very good .And, Dr. Janagan,
so, he did his PhD. Totally about 20 people
did their PhD with me. Wonderful, wonderful.
So, that was a good industrial
That's true, that's true. relationship.
Yeah. I heard, So.
for quite some time, people used to say
that you brought a very good industrial
phase to the department.
Yeah. Particularly in the foundry area.
Yeah. That is amazing.
Another major contribution is...
it is very difficult to deal with magnesium.
So. So, my student from...we had a
very good relationship with the DRDL,
Defence Research and Development. Correct.
So, one of my student, Dr. Sundarajan,
who was the who did his master's here.
He did his project work with me.
He became a scientist in DRDL. DRDL.
So, he wanted to do his PhD, PhD.
on a magnesium alloys. Very good.
At that time, Dr. Abdul Kalam
was the director of Okay.
DRDL. DRDL.
Later on, of course, a Air Vice
Marshal. Narayanan, also Ok
was there. They were all interested in
magnesium, because Wonderful, wonderful.
it is very difficult to import
Very good. magnesium
alloys. Plus, Very good. True.
at that time, they were developing Prithvi.
Prithvi, they wanted
Prithvi. a lighter one.
It is a magnesium...
Correct. case is a magnesium casting.
So, I was a consultant to DRDL.
So, they took me to...
Incidentally, Sunderajan, later
became director of NIT Trichy. I know, I know.
I am in touch, I am in touch.
Now, recently actually, Dr. C. G. K. Nayar,
who was also a student from here,
who was the chairman of HAL, he is talking of
starting a big, you know,
initiative on magnesium,
because magnesium, somehow,
slowly died down in India.
So, the particularly, not just the
casting of magnesium,
but the extractive metallurgy of magnesium,
and then taking it in a big way because,
both aerospace and also automotive industry are
thinking in a big way
to bring magnesium into their, you know, components.
So, so, I think, your initial contributions
are going to be useful now. Yeah.
So, I was very happy.
Good, good . One day,
I stayed in Hyderabad
for 10 days. At DRDL,
in the in their campus until Very good.
the casting is poured and
everything, so. Very good, very good.
That, I believe is
my, I was very happy to be associated Wonderful, wonderful.
with that project for the Prithvi.
So, that was the... Okay,
but at some stage you moved to US, I heard?
Yeah. Okay.
So, when was this, Professor?
What happened was,
I knew for the industry to be, this one,
ISO 9000 is very important.
So, I had
an Industrial Consultants Centre.
So, at that time, Professor Raju was the
Dean of the Okay.
Industrial Consultancy also.
So, to get a auditor certification,
So, you have to
pay about 20000 rupees in those days, okay. Okay.
So, I requested whether I can use my
industrial consultancy money...my own this...
So, he said, "you can go to Delhi."
So, I went there, to Delhi
to get certified
Certified. as an ISO 9000 auditor.
Auditor. Okay, I am, I am a lead auditor.
So, you are a lead auditor. Lead auditor course.
So, that is this one.
Okay. Plus, I also had,
at that time, solidification simulation,
I had my small packages etcetera.
So, I used to go to US
to present my papers etcetera. Yeah, in conferences.
So, one of my friends,
when he came over here,
just gave me a resume,
just to see whether there is an opportunity.
Before that, actually, I
applied to one University in Canada.
Okay. I had an offer, okay, to go,
but, meanwhile, Maynard Steel Casting Company,
they were looking for a person
Okay. Who is familiar with solidification
simulation software. Simulation
Plus, they have also wanted
an ISO 9000 auditor skills.
I had both of them. Okay.
So, just I, so I took 2 years of sabbatical,
Okay. in those days. So, I took the sabbatical
and... Which year was that?
1993. So, '93, okay.
1993, we went there
and then, So, 26 years after you joined here.
Yeah. Okay.
And then, after I went there,
so, my children were there...
so, they wanted to stay over there. Stay, yeah.
So, then. So, I retired So.
so, in 1995. Okay.
I retired. And then, so, After 2 years of sabbatical.
stay...stay put over there in the...
I was a director of quality.
Now, I have been the chief metallurgist
for the last 5 years. Yeah.
My wife also works with me.
Okay. So, and so, she develops
all the documentation for
So now, it is about 25 years ISO 9000.
Yeah, yeah . you have been there?
So, what was the major difference
that you found when compared to the industry
here and the industry there? Yeah,
what I notice is,
the industries remain the same, but
from the academic if you want to see,
especially in steel...
Here, metal casting and metal joining. Steel
metal joining is a part of casting.
Yes. There is nothing like metal joining
separate and metal casting.
So, and heat treatment. Heat treatment.
So, as a chief metallurgist, my job is...
one third is to specifications.
Specification, specification, specifications, that is it.
The second one is, metal joining.
Metal joining. Even, how to get a
qualified procedure.
That itself is a... Correct.
we do not teach in academic. Today, True, true.
if I were to be a professor,
I believe, it will be slightly...I will design a
programme in such a way,
ideally suited for the industry.
So, metal casting programme. Metal casting.
So, incorporate metal joining
Metal joining. and teach specifications.
Specifications, ASTM specifications. Sure.
They didn't specifications...it is all about specifications.
And then, heat treatment.
Heat treatment here is a as a separate, as a
Metal casting. Heat treatment is a separate,
it is all about heat treatments. Steel is nothing but
Obviously, obviously. heat treatment.
So, that is the. And of course, now
now with the industry in
US, the only thing is,
we have to make money, thats it. Yeah.
They do not care
who you are, what, as long as you generate
wealth. Correct, correct.
You generate wealth only if you can
help the company to make money. Make money.
So, you should have the skills of Of
how to help the company... Making quality product.
good quality products. And then, less defects.
Less defects. More productivity, yeah,
and more like that.
You raised this...
that is one of the things -
productivity is the key.
Key, productivity and... Obviously.
You may not know, many people, many industries,
do not even have the metrics of
how to define the productivity, okay.
Many people just - man hours per tonne.
So, that itself, there is a
quite a lot of scope. You may not believe,
that on average,
US industry or any industry lose
about 5 to 10 percent of their revenue
in quality cost. Quality cost, yeah.
It is a enormous amount.
In a 30 billion dollar industry, it is about Correct.
three billion per year. Three billion per year.
that is amazing. So, I made a
presentations and publications etcetera,
how to improve the productivity?
So, I am also, I used to teach
Six Sigma... You are also associated with
some academic institutions there in US?
I am an adjunct professor in
University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. Okay.
Okay, I work one day in a week. I work
4 days in this one, 4 days in the industry.
So. And, 1 day in...
So, so what happened was,
the MagmaSoft, I have been using
for the last 25 years.
So, the president of MagmaSoft said,
"I will give 5 licences, each."
Licence cost 80000 dollars.
So, he gave 5 licences to UWM,
and said, "Roshan, teach us
the solidification." Okay.
So, that is how I went there.
So, I teach solidification simulation
for the graduate students
and undergraduate students and also,
the software, I maintain. Simulation software.
and then, I also assist the students for...
advisor for PhD students.
So, I have a student working on
fracture toughness of low alloy steels
using in mining industry.
Wonderful. There is another project also,
I help is, surface alloying.
Laser surface alloying,
particularly? No, it is not a laser surface.
See, the valve bodies
are generally WCV castings, plain carbon steel.
But, when a water flows,
corrosion is a major issue.
Stainless steel is very expensive. Very expensive.
So, is it possible to surface alloy?
Surface alloy. So, we are
working with...almost we are successful,
using casting process. Oh, okay.
In the sense, we take a course
and then apply,
taking a regular wash
and put nickel powder, chromium powder
and those things etcetera, Alloys.
and then cast it.
Cast. So, it will absorb only on the surface.
It is only on the surface, very good.
So hydro, how to change the
hydrophobicity of this one?
Very good. So Botany, so I asked,
because, how to create a hydrophobic surface. Surface.
So, I asked my wife one day this one etcetera.
So, you know the leaves? Yeah, yeah
Lotus leaves etcetera? Now, it is a big,
Nanotechnology that is a big thing. Yeah.
People talk of self cleaning.
For example, on these glasses
people do what is called, we work
to some extent, Nano Titania coatings
for bringing super hydrophobicity
on surfaces. This is the another new area.
Yeah. Good.
So, another contribution which I
made to US foundry industry is,
when I went there,
my daughter is a
Lotus nNotes specialist.
So, before going itself,
I was working on expert systems over here.
Okay. I had my students working on expert systems.
So, then I went to American foundry society,
I used my expert system using Lotus Notes.
And then, they were very much impressed.
So, in 2001, they gave me
award of scientific merit
based upon my work on
Very good. expert systems. This one.
Expert systems. And, later on,
I was working, my son...
so, he is an IT.
So, he developed a
learning management system
for American Foundry Society.
Online courses, I started
using his... Ok. very good very good.
So, then, they were impressed.
So, they gave me
the go AFS gold medal, the highest
award of AFS, in 2006. Foundry Society.
Very good. As a gold medal...
And also, CMI Director’s award,
in the same year.
So, two awards I got from...so.
So, you also contributed a lot to
teaching through online courses.
Online courses. So. Very good.
They are very popular I heard. They are, so.
Good. Those are the my contributions to the
US foundry industry.
But, I believe, my
major contribution to the...
my profession, is my invention of my steel foam. Yeah.
So, I got. You were talking about
it in the morning? Yeah, I got my patent in April, 2017.
Last year, last year . Yeah.
and it has got enormous amount of applications in
both in the defence, the naval, army
True. and structures.
Having worked in aluminium foams, I know.
Everybody was waiting,
someone to make a steel foam. Yeah.
And, that is going to
really remarkably change
Yeah. the whole field. Yeah.
So now, my intent is how to see...
now, that I have got the materials,
now, how to have the components
made use of.
Correct, correct. Because, I
I would like to see this
material is extensively used in
industry for the benefit of... Ok.
it will save the millions of Particularly, defense.
lives. It is a, it's a lifesaving material. Correct, correct.
So, the only thing is, they have to use it.
So, so my students also are working.
On. Armour plates
all those things, you know. Yeah, armour plates to
Correct. using
simulation. We did some work recently,
and using a Nano, you know steel we call it as...
where you refine the microstructure
through heat treatment.
Of course, thermo mechanical processing,
bring a Nano Bainitic kind of structure,
and improve the fracture definite to such an extent,
that it becomes like,
a much better bullet proof material
in terms of shock absorption, energy absorption.
So, so, you are trying to do it with
foam, that is amazing. Yeah.
Very good. So, they there is no limitation to the
steel material. I can make in any material, Correct.
starting from the hardness of
140 BHN up to 500 BHN. Wonderful.
Wonderful. We can have up to even
50 percent of the
lighter weights. It is not only has,
people have been aiming at lightweight steel
Obviously, obviously. for the energy, but it has got
both lightweight but also energy absorption.
True. Not only energy absorption, but also the
sound, sound absorption. Yeah, yeah. And also, automotive industry is also, also...
is amazingly going to use it. Very good. Yeah.
So. And, I heard that you can also make it graded?
It is a gradient.
You can in the industry. Density also. On one side, solid.
Very good. And, in the other side, the foam.
So, we are also now trying to roll it.
Uses a lot of structural stability also. Yeah.
Yeah. That will be very good.
Anything which requires a bending strength,
because this has got a higher stiffness in bending,
so, this is a
very useful material for the
benefit of the... Now, that you have been associated for
almost 5 decades with foundry industry,
how did foundry industry change
in India and in US? How do you,
from your own eyes,
do you see a major change
the way people used to do foundry, for example?
One thing is the development of simulation
software has become,
the so called e-foundry,
now people talk about, right?
Not... Lot of softwares?
Software, but the only thing is, again,
I did my thermal properties in 1970.
Even today, that is one of the limitations.
Okay. All the softwares, there are many software companies.
You need to give inputs
to the softwares. Now, how do you know
the thermal properties? What they have?
Which they have used? So,
there, there is always a scope for improvement. Yeah.
So, there is where now. You need somebody to measure
these thermal properties, so that
you can give them as input parameters.
Input parameters. Correct.
See, even liquidous and solidous temperatures, Yeah
that is an important. New alloys, that you are developing. How do you know that they acquiring? Yeah.
How do you know the density? Correct.
In order to, just measuring the density.
So, that will be a
wonderful research programmes.
True, true, true, true. Evening, I will be telling you about
what all research can be. Energies.
Research can be...
Even surface energies. Even, all, so many things.
Surface energy is another major issue. Yeah.
Yeah So that is... But, one thing is, still, I believe,
industries still have not figured it out - how to
reduce the defects?
Defects, yeah. Because, the process variables..
Are too many. Too many possibilities. So, we have to...
Need to control measurement. Measurement.
So, the other thing is, which
I always, somehow, I work
in the in the UWM, I am a
IBM industrial advisory member.
Very good. So,
there is an academic initiative member.
My daughter is IBM business partner.
So, so introduce me to IBM SBSS Modeller.
Now, all, it depends upon data.
Big data, people talk. Correct.
So, in foundry industry,
one of the weaknesses is,
we are not a data centric industry, still.
True, true, true. To the extent what is needed.
So, what we require is,
how to collect the, how to collect the data.
And then, use the data. Now, people are Use the data.
talking of artificial intelligence, neural networks.
So, that also can play a significant role in foundry also.
Exactly. How
can you predict the
properties of a material? Property correct.
Neural networks. Correct.
And the Sometime back,
decision trees. long back, one of my student worked on
grain size prediction using neural networks,
based on a lot of data that we generate.
So, when you do inoculation
for a given amount of, inoculation for a
known alloy that you are putting in,
what is the grain size? Can we predict it
without doing an experiment?
Yeah. So, that.
So, I am developing a course on
Predictive Analytics in
Manufacturing using IBM SBSS Model.
Actually, on December 23rd,
I am giving a webinar for AFS
Okay. on Predictive Analytics in
Metal Casting Industry.
Fantastic! Wonderful, wonderful. So,
that is, I believe, it's going to be the future.
In US also, this foundry industry has
changed significantly, do you think?
There is a major change?
Yeah, there is a major change
and since, they have got reduced...
If you compare the foundry is...
I will tell you my own...the
US, it is all about caster production
and selling price. Correct.
So, it is all about global economy. So,
if you find that,
somewhere else it is easier to cast
or make the component, make it cheaper, Make it cheaper.
so, you go there. If the same component,
anywhere in the world,
you can get it cheaper and same quality...
Same quality. Same quality, obviously. Same quality.
then they will go.
So, but. For example, in Chennai
you would possibly know that, we have Hyundai
plant, we have, we have Ford.
My ford car is made in Chennai.
So, like that, you have
so many of these industries coming to India
also, for one of these reasons, possibly, caster production. So,
So, in US labour costs are high.
That is okay. I heard that.
So, you cannot compete with...
so, the only thing is, you have to be
on the forefront of the technology. Technology.
So, only the.
Value addition, somehow. Value addition
especially, that is why we say, you
be good in data collection
and reduce the
reduce the quality costs, Reduce the .
then only you can make money, but. True, true.
In our company, we make
large...for the mining machinery,
large cast gears and quality etcetera.
I do not think other people
will be able to have the same amount of a skills.
Whatever said and done,
certain things cannot be learnt
only by books. It is by... True.
True, true, true, true. So, with a 100 year old company,
myself 20 - 25 years
working in steel,
we have so much amount of
personal knowledge about the materials,
so that is very difficult to have... True.
So, you may have money to buy the equipment, True.
but, you do not have the people
who have the skills or the knowledge Skills, yes.
to make the cast. Even,
if you see all the specifications,
specifications are drawn by
mechanical engineers.
Those are the people who
put the specifications.
Our job as the foundry engineer is
to make a component with defect free,
with the properties as the designer has intended.
Now, the question is,
how does the designer
put those specifications? Fracture toughness
was not a specification would bw
Earlier. put on the drawing earlier,
but now it is slowly coming up.
There is a... Now, let us comeback to IIT Madras.
You have been visiting IIT Madras,
at least once in a year, once in 2 years.
Do you see a significant change
from your time to now,
in terms of, let us say...
The only this... what I could see is,
Teaching or research...any,
any one of these fronts,
do you see a significant change?
Like, people like you, who have been
working on nano material,
I do not think, at that time
we had... Yeah, this area was not known.
we had people. So, you have at least
you have, started a new area. True, true. New areas.
For some reason, other than in India,
the foundry courses are not... Yes.
We do not know, same thing in US also.
For example, in Madison,
earlier it was one of the best, but
it is not there.
True, true, true. It depends upon the people.
So, new areas come up, old areas...
it all depends upon demand and... Demand.
Yeah. Whereas, somehow, foundry industry
has not been recruiting many people,
so, slowly, you know, it's
a little come down, that is true.
And more people are now going
more into, as I was telling you, e-foundry.
So now, we have courses where
you demonstrate or you
do through simulation do a
casting experiment rather than doing a
real casting experiment.
So, our classes also,
we introduce that to some extent.
So, that students are also excited to see.
But then, But, eventually...
what industry requires is, still, I believe,
there is enormous amount of a The skilled people?
skill is required. Skill.
How to make a good casting
with good properties? There is always a scope,
and there not many people,
there are not many people who are knowledgeable
Definitely . in steel metal cast, steel metallurgy.
True, true, true. Yeah.
Where are your students? Now, I mean,
do any of them who have become some
stalwarts anywhere like the way you are?
For example, Sundarajan is a good example. Yeah, yeah.
A wonderful example. So, he was the... Correct
And then, Dr. Venkoba Rao was there.
So, and then, Dr. Seshadri
he was and this one etcetera. Seshadri also, possibly,
He is retired now.
He was retired. Yeah, I think.
Dr. Venkoba Rao sir Dr. There is one more
gentlemen in India Pistons by name Gopal,
who keeps on talking about you and all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know him very well, yeah.
He is also a very senior member Yeah, yeah, yeah.
but, he remembers you so well Yeah, yeah.
There is another Gopal was there, who was in TVS.
TVS, yeah. TVS, yes.
He also got his PhD with me, you know. Correct, correct, correct.
Even there is one
gentleman by name Mahadevan,
who also talks a lot about you. Yeah, yeah, Mahadevan also.
So, we gave them...because, when I was here,
we developed a squeeze casting...
this one, so they took the... Correct, correct, correct.
So, do you also remember your campus life here?
How was it? I was telling my wife...
We thoroughly enjoyed our campus life.
OATs on Saturdays we used to go. OAT Saturday movies, yeah.
It was very nice, yeah . Nobody can forget.
It was a very nice this... Wonderful, wonderful.
And, your children grew here or?
Mostly. I have 2, I have 2 children. My
daughter completed her...in Vanavani.
Vanavani. And,
also, I was the Chairman of the
Vanavani School School.
between '82 and '84,
after I became my.
After Headship. Head of the Department.
'82 to '84. '84.
I was the Chairman of the Vanavani School.
That is a wonderful experience. Good.
Yeah. That is an excellent school.
Good, good, good. Any message that you have
to the younger people? About foundry
or in general about academics?
Yeah, the only thing which I tell all my
students is, corporations
do not hire you for what you know,
we hire you for what we need.
Yes, definitely. So, your degree is only a necessary condition
for employment, but not a sufficient condition. Sufficient condition.
So, what you need to know is,
you need to figure it out
what we require in foundry.
In foundry. What do you...We require
just the metallurgical background, Correct.
good metallurgical background.
And, the next one is, you require the
heat treatment background
and then, you require
the industrial engineering background.
Correct. And then, even cast accounting.
Cast accounting is extremely important.
So, all the skills you need to have.
Somehow, you have to develop these.
Yeah. They may not be taught in the actual classroom,
Yeah. so, but, one has to develop
to really become successful.
In order to...so those are the skills...
So, it just not the. And then, Yeah.
why mechanical engineering better Metallurgy?
Mechanical engineers generally they will
know little more about
how to read the drawings, okay.
The drawings. Yes, that is true.
Although, now they all the CAD packages have
come. But still, Yeah.
in foundry, you should be able to read the drawing. Correct, correct.
So, those skills.
So, foundry is actually a blend of
both mechanical and metallurgical engineering.
So, it is not only either metallurgical . Yeah, yeah. Definitely, definitely.
or mechanical. Definitely, definitely.
Heat treatment is a part of this. Very good, very good.
You will be surprised, to get one
welding... it'ss extremely important,
but you cannot underestimate... Yeah, definitely, definitely.
To get one procedure qualified,
it may cost about 3000 to 5000 dollars.
Just procedure qualification.
Wonderful. And, I cannot touch my casting with a weld rod
unless, I have got a qualified procedure
Procedure for the welding. Correct. for the welding.
Thank you Professor,
it was wonderful meeting you.
And very nice that you have been able to share
your experience in, not only in IIT Madras, but also
your 25 years of experience, overseas.
And, this is amazing to talk to you,
a stalwart like you.
Thank you, Professor.
You are welcome.
I wish to thank you, Professor Murty.
No, we should thank you. I wish to thank Mamata,
and Mr.Kumaran, The whole Heritage group.
Mr. Rajaraman for giving me this opportunity
to be with you today,
thank you very much. Thank you sir.
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