Prof. M.A. Parameswaran in conversation with Mr. Amudachary
Good morning sir.
Good morning, my name is Amudachary.
Amudachary your pet student. [Inaudible]
You are our guru.
Thank you very much. Philosopher.
Guide and mentor.
[Speaking in Tamil]
I am your friend. Professor in my course.
I am your friend.
Yeah, of course.
An elderly friend.
We are friends, we are very thick friends actually.
Now, it is my turn to question you for a change. Yes sir.
I was on your other side always,
now you are on the
side where we have to question you. Yes.
In fact, I have been given some more question by
your good friend our good friend.
I hope you won’t give me marks for my answers.
I will not give you. Great.
Briefly we would like to know your
experience before you joined IIT Madras.
Before I joined IIT Madras
actually I got my Engineering degree from IIT Kharagpur.
I belong to the 1st batch of IIT Kharagpur
1951 to 55 B.Tech.
honors it was called
my degree still a B.Tech. honors degree.
So, 51 IIT Kharagpur started
and it so happened that I was in Calcutta
in those days after my intermediate.
And we just applied and I got through
because in those days if you get a good
first class in intermediate
you could join any college in India,
any profession more or less.
If that is if you got 65 percent
or nearly nearing 70 percent in intermediate
you could walk into any any university in all over India;
you could walk in almost without much difficulty.
It was very easy to get into
the university studies in those days.
Nowadays of course, it has become difficult to the-
you get 95.5, 95.2 and things like so it's difficult.
So, I joined IIT Kharagpur
and IIT Kharagpur is just being built up like
when you join the IIT Madras it was being built up.
So, similarly IIT Kharagpur was being built up,
but we were in the same in the in a jail
the political jail Hijli Jail it is called
where the British used to keep the political prisoners
in Kharagpur, Hijli Kharagpur.
So, we had our classes there
and there was a huge hangar there with the workshop
and the workshop was full of
the World War 2 repairations machines.
All the German machines,
index machines and things like that
all mechanically automated machines
basically not the computer controlled machines,
but mechanical control machines.
Tak tak tak tak all cam control, right.
So, we used to work on that
and then we used to make drawings
and we had hostels which had no flooring at that time
and there was no window to shut.
So, when the monsoon came rain would come in,
but then of course, within a few
months everything got through
and the 1st batch was we were 180 students.
So, that’s how the IIT system started.
Sir excuse me, what were you doing before that?
I was born in a small village in North Malabar
a place called Payyoli
where later after my birth a long after that
P. T. Usha was also born.
So, I have the distinction of
being born in the same place
where P. T. Usha was born.
So, I had my primary education in Payyoli
and then I had my high school in is a town
a little North of Payyoli where my mama was staying.
So, I didnt finished schooling there I
because by that time I my
parents got shifted to Calcutta.
So, I went to Calcutta joined
South Indian school and finished my school there.
Then after matriculation in Calcutta in 1948,
I joined the Saint Xaviers College
for my intermediate science
and then after the intermediate science I
I got admissions to a Shibpur
the Bengal Engineering College in Shibpur,
but then I was a little underweight.
So, they said they would not select me.
Shibpur Papers Mills is there famous.
Shibpur Paper Mills or something is there.
Shibpur Paper Mills not there. Sorry.
Shibpur is near the botanical gardens in
Calcutta on the Howrah side
and Bengal Engineering College one of the older
oldest Engineering College
something like the our Anna University here
and thing like that
Guindy College Bengal Engineering College
is also an old college.
I got admission there, but then
since I was under weight I was a very
puny fellow in those days
and not that I am very tall now, but
atleast I am normal.
So, they would not admit me.
So, I continued 1 year B.Sc.
and by that time the
IIT Kharagpur came up and then
my parents also suggested why dont I join there.
So, I got into IIT Kharagpur.
So, the after 4 55 I passed out and
in those days like the present days you know,
people like to go to after just a degree
you go to America for M.S.
In those days it was a fashion
at least in the Calcutta side area
to apply to some German Company
and they would take you as a trainee
it was very easy to get into a German
firm as a trainee.
They would give you some
300, 400 marks per month,
it was good in those days
and they would look after you
and then after 1 or 2 years
they would even give you an employment.
Germany which firm did you go to?
I went to a crane making company called [indiscernible]. [Indiscernible] in Dortmund
where- we mentioned about Dortmund.
So, I stayed there for over- This is in Ruhr gebiet am I right.
Pardon. Ruhr gebiet they call it.
Ruhr Ruhr gebiet
So, there I was in the drawing of is for
two various or so then after that I
shifted to another crane company a bigger one called
Krupps company in North
on the North Sea area Wilhelmshaven, [indiscernible]
they use also used to make cranes.
So, I was working there
and at that time our old Professor R. A. Kraus,
Robert Kraus from
IIT Kharagpur, he had become the
the the German official in charge
for IIT Madras Scheme
and they we had contact with him
some 4 or 5 of us from the IIT Kharagpur
and so he wrote to all of us.
Professor M. S. Thacker is coming to
bought for an IIT interview
you all come down better come down and
its a good chance for you to get a job in IIT Madras.
So, we all went to interview there and then the
we naturally we got easily selected.
Sir, excuse me.
Yes. When you are studying in Kharagpur
he was a teacher there
his famous name in mechanisms did he-
He used to teach mechanisms,
but of course, he didn’t teach mechanisms directly
for mechanisms and all that we had one
Professor Nanjundesh Nanjundayya or somebody.
So, he used to teach us,
but he used to Professor Kraus
we built up the institute basically
IIT Kharagpur apart from the government side.
Because he brought in other German professors
and things like that.
Professor Kraus he had a sort of a fatherly figure,
we used to call him Papa Kraus basically
because Professor Kraus the
unfortunate thing is that he lost his son in the war
and the Mrs. Kraus and
Mr. Professor Kraus they were in China
in a college sponsored by Germany.
And then after that they joined IIT IIT Kharagpur,
they were actually employees of
the the Indian Government,
it was not under the aid or something
because IIT Kharagpur had UNESCO aid
if I have not mistaken and even that some
some English some UK based scheme
and we got a lot of this old machines from
the the the Second World War reparation
and all this we had a big
used for our workshop training.
Thing came- When you selected Germany who are the other people
who were selected with you and came time?
With me we were selected-
basically in my batch it-
we were selected-
we had one Dr. T. Ramachandran if you remember,
he was not IIT Kharagpur or something
Mithalarji, you remember Ramachandran.
He called thu. Thu.
thu. So, he was already a doctoring there
and he was selected also in the 1st batch,
he was working in Clausthal University.
He taught us Physical Metullargy.
Ah yes, he is a very good man personally
and he is of course, 3-4 years in older to me.
Then another man was selected,
but then he left in between
then along with me my class- Who is that?
I forget his name, he is not from IIT also, Kharagpur.
He didnt join IIT also he did.
One sur was.
My from my batch 3 others joined, 2 other joined;
one was Somashankara Das Guptha
and one Sumodh Majumdar.
These 2 were my classmates
and one Saradindu Sur was the 2nd batch.
Basically Sur and myself we
were in machine design area,
Das Gupta was in physical Metallurgy and
things like that and
I think Majumdar went over to hydro turbo machines.
He taught us.
I met this gentle men in
Dusseldorf in the Expo.
I see. In 1973 and 74.
He was in the Indian Export Council something.
He was in the Indian Engineering Export Council
Majumdar. Yeah
So, we all come came back in 61,
I joined Sur and I came back
I think Das Gupta came a little later.
He taught us metallurgy same.
Metallurgy. Physical Metallurgy he used to teach
metal forming and things like that I think.
Then we were of course,
in the MSB we had an office there
and we used to teach the 1st batch
and 2nd batch also we would
Sur and I have taught to Machine Design
and at least my good student decided
we that we were popular.
I was using his room,
I was permanently using his room
of my drawing design I have some elective, so
he was my guide for the design.
So, yeah I used to use your room in fact,
at at times I call it is your room or my room,
I was spending lot of time in that room
using the drafting board.
We didnt have sit in like today,
but they were very nice that’s where
you your role of helping us as a real guide you are.
So, then then basically what I felt is the
of course, then we had some problems with the
the 1st batch that is the
the the young people like that
we had some problems with the administration also
because we were
a little anti administration there was a group
anti administration and pro administration and middle group
and things like that and
some of us were in the anti administration group
when we were not very happy with these things there.
And since our background was from the industry,
we would go back to industry anytime we wanted and
so in when my bond of three years was over
I left IIT Madras in 64.
Along with us we also left at that time.
Sur also sur left a little later
and others left a little later.
So, I left immediately after 3 years and then
joined a company in in in Hooghly district,
Rishra again a crane maker
they used to make something electric hoist.
So, I joined there
and in between I acquired a wife called Mallika Parameswaran and-
Where did you get married?
I got married in Coimbatore Raja Street. 1965.
See 1965 and then from all the way from Coimbatore
I took out Rishra which was a very small town far away from Kolkata,
then the she how got used to the Bengal
semi-urban life not fully urban life, but semi-urban life in Rishra
and we spent 6 months there and
somehow I was not happy with the with the [inaudible]
Which was a sort of a Marwadi managed company,
nothing against Marwadis, but they are good
because they contribute a lot for the
industrialization and business progress of India,
but they have their own peculiarities
if your a straight forward engineer is
very difficult to work for a Marvadi
that’s my my experience in those days.
Nowadays of course, many Marwadis companies are very good
Birla is one of them and things like that.
So, and so I.
It so, happened that in 65 I have got a
I tried with KCP Madras for a job
they said they wanted some design man.
So, I joined KCP Madras in 1965
after exposing my wife to 6 months of Kolkata life,
she got used to Kolkata also very easily those days.
And 65, from 65 onwards I was in KCP
and then I used to come to IIT once in a while doing some
interpret the the project examination and
think viva voce and things like that
and then it so happened the
Professor Narayana Murthy asked me one day
why do not you come back to-
I told Narayana Murthy once in a while
that I am trying to leave KCP because the my young.
Blood. Young blood I was not happy with the
way KCP was also doing and so I wanted to change.
So, Professor Narayan Murthy said
why dont you come back to IIT
we are looking for somebody who knows
cranes and things like that.
And we have now a full fledged lab for that
professor was there.
So, then they have admission they came and then
I applied and then that this I was selected
when I was selected I told them that I am
on paper I am only a B.Tech. honors,
but I would like to register for my Ph.D.
directly without of you people ask me to
do an M.Tech. only then I will join.
Then Professor Ramachandran was good enough to say that
yes yes you have been an IIT Madras trainee in Germany.
So, it can be connect because I was one year in a
during that time I was in the Technical University of Hanover. Hanover.
So, basically I had undergone classes there and
I was . Then when you taught in IIT Madras is it?
It is before you taught. No before I taught during my training.
Ok. That 2 years in Germany.
Yeah yes. Last 2 years in Germany was in the IIT Madras scheme.
Of that scheme 1 year I spent in
the Technical University of Hanover
with the laboratory of mechanical handling,
cranes, conveyors and all that they used to make.
And I used to be started Suran Sur was also there
we started the classes for all machine design,
mechanical handling and related subjects.
So, basically IIT Madras told yes yes
that can we considered as a post graduation
we will allow you to
register for a Ph.D.
because otherwise I knew that once I don’t have a Ph.D.
I will be again kicked off from a IIT Madras.
So, basically I registered for the Ph.D.
under Professor Narayana Murthy
and then slowly worked and worked and worked
and it took a long time to get my PhD
1955, I graduate got my B.Tech.
1975, I have got my Ph.D.
and with my Ph.D. I became a professor here
as one is you become a professor in IIT
in my opinion its a very very very
attractive job to be a professor in an IIT.
Because you have nobody to question you
except of course, the
people like Amudachary and students [laughs]
and and if you keep away from the
political part of the whole system,
then you are happy
because you can do your work
and if you get one or two projects here and
there you are happy to do your work,
the students are good student will.
So, basically it is good to work in the
and but I was honestly tell you
that when I was in IIT also
after my even after my professorship,
KCP called me to be consultant for them
I used to go every saturday,
actually it started in 68 itself
just after I left and a
few months time they asked me to
help them with some design work in
green pneumatic conveying and general machine design.
So, I started going every Saturday
once in a while to them.
So, I am one of the earliest
consultant from the IIT Madras
staff to the industry
before it, the whole thing was even regularized,
we had a system where
why I used to and do not given given a single
paisa to the institute at those days
although the it was official.
But then the ICSR came and then
we had to give some share of the
earnings to IIT Madras.
So, it went on it went on till from 68 to almost
78 almost 9, 10 years I used to go almost every
Saturday to there,
and it so, happened that Professor V. Rama Murthy
late V. Rama Murthy you must be knowing him. Yeah.
He was also in KCP when I was in KCP
and he had joined IIT Madras
before I joined IIT Madras.
So, after- Second stint not the first stint
first stint you joined much earlier. [FL].
Your first stint you are in IIT Madras.
Yeah is second second stint
he joined in between before I rejoined.
So, KCP he was also basically interested in design area
and vibrations and things like that.
So, KCP Ramamurthy and I
used to go almost every Saturday to
spend a day there in KCP and help them around.
So, that was a good experience
because I kept contact with the industry for a
time, for a long time.
So, then once in a while I would get a little and up
unhappy with the thing and I would say that
to tell my wife that let us try somewhere else
I did try once or two places.
And then offer was not, then once the offer comes
I will sit down and we will compare
what is happening
they said no no this is good life because
IIT Madras beautiful campus
children are happily studying in the Central School and
the madam is happy with the society
here I am happy with a thing I could
there is no tension.
And the once you make the
comparison between the
the advantage of the life
based advantages and the monitor advantages,
if they want advantages were not
thats at they all that attractive
because in those days even now basically
because I have continuous contact with industry
even now the designer in industry is not paid very well.
In the manager gets a high paid,
but that manager doesnt know
how to design a machine.
He knows how to manage the project
and get other people work
and if the other people make a technical mistake
my experience is that that
very few are able to correct that mistake.
Then we settled for IIT Madras
we happily settled there children grow up,
then they flew away.
Then 1994 I retired
and when I retired just when I was retiring I had a,
I was already helping a small company making
planetary gearboxes in Hosur,
and these people came to me and then
I started helping them to make the planetary gear boxes.
Planetary gear boxes because
I had an experience in making
there was a ISRO
a requirement for a 14 meter antenna.
A with antenna that rotating this with
azimuthal rotation and the elevation rotation
and ISRO came to IIT Madras for the design.
And the Structural Engineering lab
took the Structural Design of the lab,
then Professor Narasimhan of
Electrical Engineering he took the
dish design that is the
the waveform and the the dish form you know?
And they were looking for a there are 2
some 3 gearbox, 2 gearboxes
there which are we to make-
they are planetary gearboxes.
Nowadays they are being imported
can IIT Madras help us.
Then we said I can help you
then basically thats how I got into the gearbox designs
planetary the gearbox design.
So, we made the planetary gearboxes for that antenna
and antenna gearboxes are very special
because they have to have very low backlash,
they would have very good accuracy,
they would have very high rigidity
because they are server controlled.
So, basically we I designed that and then
ISRO came again for another antenna also we designed.
the antenna so, basically structural lab and our lab
we used to do the design for-
I think we are done for 2 or 3 antenna projects for the
Indian space research in those days.
So, basically I had got interested into
the gearbox design
although my design area of experience for gearbox was
peripheral in the- in the olden days.
I became more interested in design of gearboxes.
So, this company came and said
sir we want to help in making planetary gearboxes.
So, I and he said. For whom?
For a Magtorq Private Limited a small company
which had started in Hosur.
And when he came he I used to help him for 2 years,
and then he said now you are retiring
what is your project- your proposal after retirement.
He said we I am looking for
I will settle down somewhere and
maybe help the industry for do something,
then he said that we are making gearbox
you are helping us,
so why dont you come to
Hosur and Bangalore or Hosur and then
help us make gearboxes?
So, and in those days I had 3 options to settle-
settle down after the
both my wife and I had decided that
Madras is not a place for us
because after having lived in this beautiful campus Madras is not a place for us
because after having lived in this beautiful campus
and peaceful campus for a long time whenever we go out
we became a little nervous about the city,
because the city traffic was going on increasing and
city life is getting difficult.
So, we said we should go to place where
is a little more peaceful and we have some
people around us,
relatives. Children have flown away.
So, we had 2 or 3 options;
one option was Vishakapatnam where
my parents had been leaving for-
after my my father had retired and settled there
because my eldest sister were had settled there.
So, we had some connection from
my side of the family in Vishakapatnam,
then the next was Coimbatore
where my wife's family has some
connect- family connection relatives.
So, that we have relatives to support us in the old age
and Bangalore where also we had some relations
and my sister-in-law was there
her sister was elder sister was there.
So, and Bangalore is a good place to settle down
its a sort of neither Vishakapatnam and not [inaudible]
Where you in Bangalore or in Hosur? The the-
We started in Bangalore, I was staying in Bangalore,
we have bought a flat in Bangalore for-
and stayed there for 3 years and I
used to go to Hosur 5 days a week.
Travel was tough since the the.
That in those days it was tough
the traffic was not bad,
but the roads were ba.,
This is I am talking of 94, 94 to 97. This is-
The traffic will slowly got on increasing increasing like that,
so we said going up and down and my eyes were getting bad
because I developed a glaucoma in my eyes and then
I could not see well in the dark for a- to start with
now I dont see the light time also very well.
So, driving said my wife said
you are going up and down is not good,
we also decided.
And Bangalore was also getting more and more congested,
it is difficult to live in Bangalore actually
its a very very congested city
and I think that some ways Madras is better.
So, we shifted to Hosur and let out the flat
for some time then finally, we sold the flat
and we decide to get back to Coimbatore.
When was that?
That was in 2003 we got a house in Coimbatore and
we shifted to Coimbatore,
but the company said
no no you cannot go away from us like that.
So, you have to continue helping us.
So, I said ok we will
my eyes are getting bad and all that thing.
So, if you want I will help you once in a while they said fine.
So, I used to be used to spend 15 days in Bangalore, 15 days;
15 days in Hosur, 15 days in Coimbatore.
I still helped them with the all design things.
Because the company was growing up and
we had a tie up with not only ISRO
almost all the ISRO gearboxes now made by this company.
That's one thing I should tell you.
Because of you.
Because of me means because of me and the company
because the company makes the machine according to
what I told them no?
There are many companies who
do not make a thing as per you specify.
You write some tolerance, you write some material etcetera
the shortcut and then the management
sort of, they they overrule you know
the designer is over ruled by the management quite a lot.
So, that way the company is very faithful to the- design.
So, we had to made a name and Larsen and Toubro in Bombay,
they are into defence
and defence people also need gearboxes for
server control gear boxes for their
gun systems and things like that,
because, the server gear boxes need to be compact
rigid low backlash or zero backlash and things like that.
And we had a good connection with
we still have the good connection with a
Larsen and Toubro in Bombay,
and almost all their gare boxes are made by this company.
So, I used to spend 2 weeks in Hosur,
2 weeks in Coimbatore, we will go up and down.
Where do you live in Coimbatore now?
Coimbatore we live in Ramanathapuram.
Now, since about 4 or 6 months
we are not going to Coimbatore, Hosur also.
So, the company still says no no no you should,
so the they still phone me up,
they give me emails and things like that.
So, we still have connection with the company.
The man who started the company is also old now,
so he has gone back to his base in Palakkad area,
he is got a farm there.
So, he is become more of a farmer
although as a Managing Director he still continues the
he has got the controlling hand
his children are running the company.
I still help- them technically so.
When you were the join IIT in 1961-
Yeah. You used to have some German professors like-
Dr. Scheer, Dr. [inaudible] [inaudible]
What is your experience with them and
how do you feel those days
these German Professors vis a vis the Indian?
No in my experience with German professors
in those days was not very-
I didnt have much contact with them except that
Mr. Ebert of course-
workshop you used to.
Workshop because we had connections with the workshop.
So, Mr. Albert we used to interact a little
and there was one Hassenbein-
Hassenbein right. -he was also in the workshop
we used to have in contact with them,
but it was not very close
because nothing was design.
But Dr. [inaudible] used to take class in machine design.
Dr. Kurgan actually when we came
Kurgan stopped taking Machine Design class,
I think sur and I took the classes right?
Yes. If you remember.
Yeah, yeah. Sur and I took their classes.
So, Kurgan was still just managing and
I think Kurgan also left early .
Did they like the Indian experience, these Germans.
I dont know. So, many of them I think liked
I know Scheer used to like
and Kurgan we dont know. Kurgan he went away
and he was a happy man.
He was a pilot.
He was he was a war the fighter pilot.
So Kurgan's one experience I had tell you it was very nice,
he once went to some function in
in hotel or something some formal function.
And Dr. Kurgan wore a tie and he wore a chapple
and then he will ha he had a German car.
So, he will with the car he will drive with the
he will steer with the thing and he will put his hand here
and he will go on driving and he will go on hooping
and breaking and all that thing.
Then he will say it is very easy to drive in India you know
if you got a good break and a good horn
you can drive very easily in the India.
So, he was he had that
fighter pilot reflexes you know basically,
he was basically good man
even though our connection with him
was not very close in those days
and Dr. Scheer of course, we are not very close because
I told you know 3 years I were there have left the,
then when I came back Dr. [inaudible] and-
Was Professor Haug first first time he was there?
Professor Haug was not there I think Professor Haug came
also later. Haug was teaching us vibrations.
Actually. Haug was teaching vibration,
but our connections in with vibrations people extra was less
because if as you say we were in that MSB one room there
and we were more interested in teaching design and
setting up some things and.
One stall was also they doing their period.
Stahl was in the IC Engine lab. DC Engineers.
IC Engine lab
and Koch was there
Nicholas Klein was there.
Ok in fact, Klein was very big actually
Klein mean small German.
Whereas, he was very big person, am I right?
Used to call him small big Klein. No no [inaudible] was the biggest man.
Yeah. So, we used to call this small big Klein.
Klein means in German small. Yeah small.
He was very big actually yeah.
And Nikolaus Klein was I think more in the humanities know.
Yes Germany he use to.
He is teach German right
and Nikolaus Klein was much exposure to India even before
he knew a lot about India because
many Germans specially in the humanity area
they usually are fascinated by the
Indian philosophy and Indian.
Culture. Culture and things like that.
So, they have a good knowledge of these things
and Klein was one of them.
What’s your view about the students of your days
and later first first time and then later?
Student of my days I dont know I can
that way I know students of IIT from 1951 onwards, right.
I then also you are a student.
As a teacher. So, when we were students
then when we joined our salary
we could expect up to
250 rupees a month Assistant Engineer somewhere
as I was telling our friend Mamata
this K. C. Poojari, Krishna Chandra Poojari
he joined the Orissa Electricity Board I think
at 250 rupees Assistant Engineer.
So, it was good
Assistant Engineer in the government
simply was good in those days
and if you would otherwise you may get
anywhere up to 150, 200 rupees or something like that
and and some of my friends had also join the Hindu Motors
which is in the Kolkata . Culcutta Uttarpara.
Uttarpara and
they were and one of my classmates became the Master Mechanic,
one Bansal G. C. Grishchandra Bansal
and they were and the first
gold medalist of the first IIT
one Bheem Chandra Mandal,
he also joined he was Mechanical like our 1st batch.
Thangavelu. Gold Medalist Mechanical Tangavelu,
the 1st medalist Gold Medalist of IIT Kharagpur was also
a Mechanical. He was here two, 2 months back, he was in Madras.
So, Bheem Chandra Mandal joined this
this place Hindu Motors,
but then he left for he joined re-joined the Hindustan Steel
and he grows up well there
to become a super or something in the design
and I am told he is not all that well now that that’s the-
He is still living.
Many of my classmates are no more are passed away
he is the Bheem Chandra Mandal seems to be still living
as per the latest news I got, not very well.
Your relation to the IIT Institute of Madras
as a teacher and staff?
So, then the IIT we were we were all happy to get there
very few of us left for USA in those days
and even from the IIT Madras very few in the 1st batch
the first earlier batch is left for USA.
And I think the students the earlier students
who are more interested in the engineering content of the course,
than the later students
for the the the as the years went by
the students became more interested in getting a high grade
GP GBA and then applying to a university somewhere in the USA
getting an MS there and going off.
And in many cases I have found that
what they did in IIT Madras and
what this what they studied in M.S. are
not very close connections,
that I found out and even here many of these students who
passed out here they joined the management
MBA and IIM or something like that
they went on selling soap and things like that.
So, basically means I had the impression that
the interest of the Engineering student
in Engineering is was getting more and more
diluted and and I think that’s the condition
in India now that basically
the bright students look for a good job
rather than doing well in the profession
either Engineering or Physics or
Chemistry or Mathematics or whatever it is
my because I may be too old now to-
as a grandfather I am
getting the grandfather ideas. No no-
that’s way we are also old.
In fact, we believed drawing is important and
Yeah. We believed a structures all that today
and may be the concept is changing as well.
No that is that is a structures,
but if you still believe that
you have to make machines as an engineer
or you have to make a good building as an engineer
or you have to make a good electronic device
as an engineer whatever it is
or do a good good research good development in
Material Science or Chemical Engineering or something.
So, that that you find in very few people nowadays.
I remember very well that
we used to consult for this IIT Madras,
the new entries no
when after the JEE the boys will come here.
The children will come here for admission
and few of professors will sit in the big room and then
we will interview the boys,
the boy will be accompanied by their parents
sometimes by their mama sometimes something
and they will come and sit down and say
ask what is your grade? He say.
So, much grade what is your rank good rank?
then what is your interest?
And the boy will say my interest is Physics sir,
then I would tell him that
yes you can do the integrated Physics in
IIT Kanpur or IIT Delhi they are very good
and because at that time we didnt have
the IIT the integrated in here.
So, but then- He had
Applied Physics and Ppplied Maths.
In Applied Physics in Bombay was there.
So, we will tell him, but then the father will tell
the father or the mamma who is there or
the mother who is there he will say no, but he is good
he is he will do ECE
because they found out from the rank list
that he is eligible for ECE.
So, you should go for ECE you know.
So, they will say he goes to ECE,
there was only one or two people will say
sir, I want Electric Civil Engineering.
I said you got a good rank
why do you want Civil Engineering?
Because in those days Civil Engineering was
not very popular.
So, he said no sir I am interested in Civil Engineering
and I want to become a Civil Engineer.
So, we were happy that we have
one student who says that
he is developed interest in Engineering
one aspect of Engineering and he wants to develop that.
So, it is very rare to find people like that.
So, in IIT days we had good time here
that counseling was there,
then in IIT I used to-
I the administrative side I have done
basically I have been
a Review Committee Chairman for a say few years
that all the staff members in IIT you know
the the the the the.
So, called class 2 and down staff.
We had in the committee interviewed
and also the- there were many many many
temporary appointees who went on for a long time.
So, we had IIT was
forced to make them permanent at one time.
So, we used to interviewed all these people and then
give them proper promotion or things like that.
So, I was Review Committee Chairman for a-
I think quite a few years when
Professor Indiresan was the Director. You are.
Committee of the Review Committee.
Your relationship with other departments how was it?
Relation with the departments was ok.
It is basically I am I didnt have
too many relations basically that way,
we didnt have too much in- as a colleague yes.
but in those days research was not
a big thing right,
research is you know big where research means
you have to do a lot of interact.
Inter departmental. Inter departmental work
to the lab wise and things like that
otherwise it was not more friendly.
Hostels what very new
Hostel Warden or Assistant Warden.
I never was a Hostel Warden.
My friends were had become,
but I never was a Hostel Warden
there is a Review Committee Chairman, then I was a
the President of the Alumni Association for I think two-
two times basically I think I was.
And in the first time I think we
we sort of revived the 25 years, you know
silver jubilee actually it was started
when I was a president there
and Basu John was there
if you remember 2nd batch Basu John,
he was very active.
And we had the Silver Jubilee Reunion
Started I used to be there while you are the President-
I was a Vice President.
You he is been Vice President of the.
Before also and after. Before also and after me also so .
we had we had Varadarajan as in the membership
V. Varadarajan know.
Yeah he being with the 3rd batch. 3rd batch,
then we had Jacob.
Jacob Dominic was the 1st batch he in US now.
No not Jacob Dominic.
I- He was-
V. C. Jacob. of MRF. In fact- V. C. Jacob MRF.
he was my you were the President
I Vice President Jacob was the.
Secretory. Secretory.
MRF. MRF.
V. C. Jacob. V. C. Jacob.
So, and then there also one Narayanan.
Ghost. Ghost was there, ghost was there.
And I think we did well in the
our committee we revived the
the Alumni Association from a sort of a
sleeping dormant stage to a more active condition
and now it has become very very active- Very very-
now it is totally different.
Is it become? It used to be very difficult
one man show or something. Yeah
Yeah yeah . Nowadays.
In those days it was more or less one man show
the President was active and the committee was active
it will do well otherwise nothing will be get done.
It was difficult to get a good committee those days.
Because the all volunteers to come.
Yeah yeah yeah. And spend time and infrastructure inside IIT.
It all totally different now.
I mean it it is that way Alumni Association has grown
very big now.
Then I was in guidance and counselling
I was head for I think
one or two terms
the viewers we used to have a think
is I dont know if it is still continuing
Guidance and Counselling Unit? Mamata- See-
You mean by placements you mean-
No, Guidance and Counselling Unit because
the- as I told you know the the student attitude to-
Yes. studies changed right?
And the- the student basically
who comes to IIT in those days
many of them had difficulty in adjusting to the student-
the IIT system.
They would get upset,
because they came from a college school
where they have in the top 5 percent.
these are the government they have to be say
at least one of them has to be the number 1
and one has to be the last. And if the-
they they they get disappointed
that they are not able to score very high marks,
and worse than that what happen is that
at home there is pressure what is this you did
so, well in this school you were doing a
number you were getting rank
number 1 to number 2 like that
now you are somewhere in the middle.
So, the mother will scold that the father will scold
and all that thing they
they were under some sort of psychological pressure.
And the school system is different from IIT system
all said and done
because in school system I think they get more personal care
from the teacher and more instruction,
where as in the IIT basically in the 1st year
when they come they sit in a large class
and they are afraid to ask questions in the class
and they are afraid to go and meet the
professor or the lecturer after the class.
So, they get a little lost
and their marks are not very good.
So, it needs a little re-adjustment.
And also some people cant speak English very well
and of course, I should mentioned here also that
there is that there was said
we had some cases where the-
the the reservation list you know
people from the reserved category,
they had some difficulties again psychologically induced
either induced themselves or induced by the by the
the normal entries and things like that.
So, they used to feel a little bad
because as a guidance counselling
I have come across these cases
where people feel a little diffident and
they are not very happy with the system they get,
they get into moods and things like that
they keep away from their friends
they feel they are being targeted.
So, we had the Guidance and Counselling had some
small groups of student volunteers
and we had some staff volunteers
our faculty members
and we used to organize and we used to
the student members would pinpoint the
problem their colleagues who are
having some mental problems
or something they would
report it to diplomatically to the faculty member
and then slowly we will try to
call the student and help them around,
I would like to mention one case in this case
we had a a bright boy from the railway colony,
he was having some problems.
So, once we had called him home
and we used to talk with him,
then we asked him his parents were staying in
Nungambakkam in the railway colony
he is son of a railway officer.
So, we asked him and how often do you go home?
He said sir, I dont go home very much because,
if I go home my mother is
asking me why I am getting low marks
and things like that.
So, I am afraid to go home that he use to say.
A local boy you know Madras by staying in the hostel,
he is afraid to go to his own home in
you know Nungambakkam on the weekends
because his mother will say why have you got bad marks.
Even who are they I think usually they
come over it overcome that
and then they become normal after sometime,
but few of them are not able to.
We have come across people who cut their-
there was one fellow who cut his wrist- Great-
with the blade and the- Shaaji.
Report that one Shaaji from Trissur,
then we found out that
he was interested basically in Mathematics,
but because of his grade- his rank in the JEE
his parents forced him to do ECE.
So, we tried telling this boy that
ECE is also a lot of mathematics
you can do that and then you can branch over to
Mathematics after your degree.
He said no sir I want to do Mathematics
and and lot of problem with him.
Then finally, we have to call his parents from Trissur and
we told him you better take your boy back
put him into some maths course
and we found out later that he did
a maths BSc and all that thing
then he is doing a reasonably well
that’s what we found out.
So, we had extreme cases like that.
What’s your contacts the IIT now,
you still in touch with the IIT now?
My contact with the IIT is not very much now.
But with the yours colleagues in IIT.
Professors colleagues in IIT professor’s students.
Colleagues students of course,
Amudachary was- we had contact with him,
but then Amudachary he somehow we lost the contact.
After you went to Coimbatore yeah.
We lost the contact.
My contact with Professor Velusamy is very still
continuing because Velusamy is always nearby
Velusamy was settle down in
he became he joined the Perundurai College.
So, whenever we went to Hosur
we used to stay visit them
and have some lunch with him and things like that
then he shifted to Erode
now he has come back to Coimbatore
he has taken he settled in Coimbatore.
What are his children doing, any idea?
He has got one Velusamy has got one son who is in the USA.
So, that’s the problem with all IIT children
they all fly off and then
they leave the parents a little lonely.
Don’t you think it is a concerned
as a generation as a whole
all the elder people stay back and the
children go away do you feel its a problem?
Say problem for the elder people
if you look at his as a parent I look at it that way
and say as an Indian I would say that
there is something wrong with the whole system of
education in this country where
and also the the the psychological
attitude of the educated people in India,
that education you can do well only if you go to
a foreign university and get a degree.
And then the foreign university being in USA,
where it is easy to settle
because USA is still got lot of vacancies and things like that
they have a lot of money
and you get a very good salary
and they continue there,
and finally, they become-
Citizens. citizens there they become Americans
of course, the America needs new people.
So, they basically they become,
but its a little sad for
personally if as a parent its a sad for the parent
and as a country its also its a little sad for the country
because the country has at least on paper,
we have said that we expect a lot from the Engineering
from the highly; the higher education
people who get higher education here and all that
they dont do any- they dont stay back and do research
or they dont do any advance here
because they prefer to go out and do the advanced work.
Brains drain Indian.
If you can say brain drain but
it I wont I dont want to call it brain drain
because I think we all the people India
we have got still lot of brains in India
the brain is not being used properly by the Indian system.
You were with Professor Indiresan do you remember,
he made a famous statement he is famous for the statement:
Brain drain is better than braining the drain, he said.
Very brain drain. Yeah yeah.
Better than the brain because he said. Yeah yeah.
Brains are in the drain India if you are.
So, that way- yeah yeah it is a famous
quote of Professor Indiresan.
Indiresan. Do you remember Shanmugam ?
He used to he used to
make some quotes like that that is true.
Sir you are you came here for the Golden Jubilee.
I came for- 2009.
That- And so you are still in contact with IIT.
Nostalgia. Yeah Nostalgia.
No I am in still in contact with IIT saying that
once in a while I had been following up my friend
Shanmugam and saying: [in Tamil] Ayya nee epdi iruka ayya? And things like that.
And I have asked him some one or two technical questions
once in a while from Hosur.
Right. Yes.
Sir, how about professor your colleagues,
sir K. Laxmi Narayan?
Laxmi Narayan is no more.
Yeah, but- Unfortunately-
Your interaction with him-
Unfortunately people in the-
my interaction with the Laxmi Narayana was good.
Laxmi Narayana. Because he also from IIT Kharagpur.
He is a- He is.
He is I think 5 years younger to me.
He related to Suri am I right no.
He is I think he is related to Suri. He is related to Suri. Related to Suri, am I right? Suri
Suri was his was the- Suri is 2nd batch IIT Kharagpur.
So ok yes I think they are cousins Suri and Laxmi Narayana.
Laxmi Narayana of course, he is from IIT Kharagpur,
I think he is 19 I am 51 batch
he I think he joined in 55 or 56.
I think he must have joined in 56 or in 55,
he has I have not met him in there I met him only here.
When did he come to IIT Madras?
Who? Narayan.
Laxmi Narayana he had worked in Godrej after
and I his thing is that he has done
B.Tech. in IIT Kharagpur,
he did an M.Tech also with Professor Malgonkar
than he joined Godrej in Bombay
he did some design work there and then he came over here
to IIT Madras.
And do you remember one Nagabhushan C. J. Nagabhushan?
And he did a Ph.D. here
and Laxmi Narayana is a very academically orient-
very strict academically oriented man,
I dont know you dont know him because-
Yeah yeah we dont know.
he is after you he, but Shanmuga would know him. Yeah.
Yes I know. He was highly intelligent
very analytical very good in Mathematics,
but very exact thing with the students,
and also very exacting with other people.
And he had some-
a little short tempered no,
he and he was a little is little reticent you know,
he was not too very open.
He is very selective in his association.
Selective in his associations.
With with me he was very close.
Close the I also have that opportunity this
this thing that Laxmi Narayana is one of the very few
professors he tolerated,
I am one of the few people
at his level whom he tolerated well.
And he would listen to me
and he would say Parameswaran
this is what I think why don’t you propose it to the-
the department meeting?
He was which area he was staying there of-
Mechanics. Mechanisms. Mechanisms.
Nagabhushan was with you do you remember?
Nagabushan was there, he was in Machine Design,
but he was there for a short time
Laxmi Narayana continued here for a long time no,
unfortunately he passed away
when he was still- before retirement.
In IIT in the office is it.
Yeah yeah he is a very good academically very brilliant fellow.
Do you remember Professor Swamy?
C. S. Swamy he has questions for you.
Chemistry Chemistry. He won’t come here.
Chemistry. Chemistry.
But he is a good friend of us.
But he wanted to be here, but
I believe he cannot come.
C. S. Swamy I remember. Here of course he has
a then questions for you,
but I already I asked like your experience.
Yeah yeah. How many people joined along with you?
I must tell you that- About your-
some of my-
I asked you infact- he has specific questions for you
whether B.Tech. honors from IIT Madras?
His question-
Of course those days everything was
honors in IIT Kharagpur, am I right?
And those days these IIT.
B.Tech. honors was only- Yes Yes.
the whether he was selected by Dr. Kraus?
Ok which I asked you answered, yes.
Whether was selected by Professor Kraus to go to Germany
and whether he- Not to go to Germany.
Professor Kraus selected me in Germany. Germany.
He that’s what he is said and whether he joined IIT 59 and left
no he didnt join this I mean you yourself you didnt join in 59 joined.
No, 59 we didnt we were appointed as lecturer only in 61.
Then did- then he has said-
As we came back.
Dr. Gopichand has asked-
Gopichand was here.
He was the in fact he came earlier to you actually.
T. Gopichand.
He taught us chemistry, then later on in Chemical Engineering.
Gopichand was in 1959.
Venkateswarlu Gopichand where the.
Venkateswarlu was my old teacher.
Kharagpur he came from Kharagpur. He taught us fuels in IIT Kharagpur.
And Rama Sastry was also came from Kharagpur. Rama Sastry
thought us Mathematics, no Chemistry. Chemistry.
In fact professors there Rama Sastry and Srinivasan S. K. Srinivasan. Yeah.
Then Dr. Venkateswarlu.
And then M. V. C. Sastry taught us Chemistry,
then Professor Nigam taught us Mathemetics. Maths.
Nigam came slightly little later.
Yeah. S. K. Srinivasan was first maths professor
Dr. [inaudible] was there.
But S. K. Srinivasan is not IIT Kharagpur I think.
I dont think.
He was not there in those days.
But you was in the- infact.
IIT first interview Panel itself apart from the Germans,
Dr. Koch and Srinivasan was there,
Rama Sastry was there, Venkateswarlu was there.
We had a big panel, those days no JEE was there.
So, at that time all the 3 were there No.
S. K. Srinivasan.
The 1st batch. Ok. Selection of us was by.
Interview 3 Germans and 3 Indian were- Yeah yeah.
Professor Verghese also was in IIT Kharagpur.
Verghese came later actually
and Narayana Murthy was one of the persons to join early.
Yeah he was one of the- What was the relationship with Narayana Swamy
as a professor and a guide how was it?
And? Narayana Swamy the Narayan Murthy.
He came from I think.
He came from Institute of Science.
Means I think he was in pre-college I think.
[In Tamil] Abdiya?
His qualification there.
But he got from he came from Institute of Science I think.
And your relationship with him as the-
he was our professor then also the Director.
He was the Head of the Department,
Professor Narayana Swamy Narayana Narayana Murthy.
He said your are his guide also.
He was my he was guide for a many people
because in those days somebody has to be guide no?
So, he is been guide for many people and
he is a nominal guide.
Many of whom who have worked with him
basically at least in the earliest
people who got a Ph.D. from IIT Madras
they have done their work more or less by themselves
without too much professional guidance from the,
from the nominal guide.
And he says Swamy asked you again
do you know Professor Swamy?
Do you remember Swamy? He says.
Which Swamy?
C. S. Swamy he is asking question to you
do you remember him. C. S. Swamy I do remember him,
although we are not probably very close. And he said-
when did he take his Ph.D.? Who?
He he asks about you.
75. 75.
Who was his guide? You answered Narayana Murthy.
Narayana Murthy.
I asked this because I wanted to-
ask the questions. Ask decide by- Narayana Murthy.
Today he is not able to come because his
daughter or somebody is not so well.
Of course, we have got our Shanmugam
he is- about moment he knew that
you are here he has come.
Sir, you selected me for the position of STA in drawing.
Ah good. In 74.
Ok I remember
you are doing Ph.D. will you be able to take 20 hours of
role drawing role, I said yes.
Then some questions technical question
I was good in drawing and I also studied a Ph.D. tech .
So, I know industrial drawing.
So, my first entry, but I didn’t continue, I left for Bombay.
And came back in 80. Yes yes yes.
Where you has there is lot of difference in you
before going to Bombay after coming from Bombay. I hope-
But Narendran where did he study with you, Guindy?
Studied here you know Guindy.
You were you were not in Guindy.
I am a Guindy graduate.
Ph.D. you said.
After guindy I went to Ph.D. for Masters.
Narendran joined this place for Masters and continued.
He is classmate of Narendran.
Guindy. Guindy Narendran.
Ok sir. He was the- Guindy. [Inaudible]
Any anecdotes you want to tell us?
Your anecdotes experience. Anecdotes.
Then tell about Laxmi Narayana.
No no Laxmi Narayana I have told he is a-
I mean no about that incident that has happened- Yes something.
That is why I prompted you sir.
I brought him Laxmi Narayana knowing that
you have some information about him.
Some- No no what it-
No no Laxmi Narayana was a good friend of mine and
we had lot of interaction and,
Laxmi Narayana means have the distinction of being
one of the few persons with
with with whom he did not become
angry. Laxmi Narayanan was he is a mechanism persons.
Or irritated.
So, mechanism people they all talk about
precision and this things. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
So, his basic you know nature is you know based.
Yeah yeah yes. Because of that
very strict he will not allow any-
Yeah yeah that is the thing.
That a that is a strictness with me.
Not very flexible.
But he is with not flexible. But very selective.
He knows some people infact he used to interact with me
on gears and other things also. Yeah, yeah.
But passed away in 97 or so, if I remember roughly.
Now, he passed away because- 97.
But Professor Ram Mohan Rao sir?
Ram Mohan Rao.
He was there in- He was there.
Yeah any interactions with him?
Ram Mohan Rao is a basically pleasant person basically.
He also studied in Germany.
Who? Ram Mohan Rao.
No he went to Germany under this DAAD scheme you know.
Rayadu also went to Germany under the daad scheme.
And you have guided few people. Who?
Like you are guided by Narayana Murthy.
You also guided Professor Rama Koteswara Rao
and Madhusudhan Rao if I am correct your student sir.
Yeah. You can recollect something about-
He was my first guide.
and design he was my guide. [FL].
Very simple with Professor Rama Koteswara Rao
two people were guides
and two poles apart
one is Professor Parameswaran other one K. Laxmi Narayana.
I always wonder how these two people
could really guide Ram Koteswara Rao.
No no because we Laxmi Narayanan and myself
we tolerated each other very well. Yes.
You tolerate each other. The kind of that is come out
of that interaction very high level one
and he is more practical Laxmi Narayanan.
More analytical.
And Ram Koteswara Rao did wonderful work.
You you may not recollect, but he is-
Now he also passed away
Hobbies. Hobby [FL] hobby?
Hobbies swimming.
Swimming I still do swimming in-
You like swimming.
When the when the-
Something about Laxmi Narayanan just
in in a lighter way nothing much more to you at this one.
He came to I will tell basically because the I was supposed to.
They are two friends they have high regards for each other.
One day morning he came to my house early in the morning
some 6:30 7 like that and my brother-in-law
was staying with us at that time.
My brother-in-law means my sister-in-law's husband
we are about the same age and we are good friends basically.
And I was not immediately at there
Laxmi Narayana came into- I was in the C 5,
C 1, C 1 C 1 5. Yeah C 5.
C 5 third loop road
Laxmi Narayana comes in the morning
and comes through the garage and to the open door
says Ananth, Ananth, he calls my son.
So, Ananth Ram comes there
and Ananth- Laxmi Narayana shouts at him
see you are playing with my son with Sudhakar
yesterday evening and the you
when you played the top that throw throw top was lost.
Pambaram was lost.
So, what he said you did not to find it
you go and search it for him.
Very roughly he is talking with my son,
then while I was not in the room
my brother-in-law was there.
My brother-in-law got upset because he likes my son also
and he said who is this man coming and shouting at my nephew.
So, then I came by that in that time
by the time my brother-in-law-
he is also a short tempered man
this my brother-in-law of mine.
Then by the time I came into the room
and I said Laxmi Narayana what has happened
then I told Ananth this is happened.
So, I we told the both my wife and I told
Ananth that you go and search for it
Sudhakar will come and they go and search it.
Then Laxmi Narayana went away,
then my brother-in-law asked,
who is this man who comes and
shouts at Ananth like that?
I was almost going to shout back at him
by that time the you came
and I found that you were very peaceful with him
and friendly with him.
So, I kept quiet otherwise
I would have shouted back at him for shouting with Ananth.
So, he was Laxmi Narayan was a little
strong character that way.
Did he complete his Ph.D. before you or after you sir?
Who? Laxmi Narayana KLM
I think he completed. Ph.D.
[In Tamil] Adhu theriyadhu ayya.
After I think-
Yes after you are. I think maybe after.
I think after me.
By that time when he was about to register,
he had 20 publications.
Yes, yes. International publications,
but he told me inspite of that I cannot could not use
any one of them for my research.
I have to start afresh.
See that he is very open in admitting certain things.
So, he had to start, I think Professor Narayana Murthy was his guide.
Narayana Murthy was guide for- For everybody.
Universal guide in those days
because there was no other specialist. I know that sir.
No professor in the professor guide no in those days.
He interestingly, R. G. asked me to join department
to do M.S. and do Doctorate here.
That’s what he told me in 64.
Of course, he advised me go to industry
that that was the philosophy we believed in
engineering working, drawing all that.
So, he said you go to industry get the experience
if necessary qualify later when you are in the job,
thats what he did, advised Masters
or then I went to Germany all that I did.
I took his advise this is this is a
advised as a real guide
that is where he made up he he was decent for my-
he said don't join here of course, this is an friend
as a friend he said more than a teacher. Yeah yeah.
I should not tell you but this is thing Yeah yeah.
best ways to go to industry get a very good experience.
No because in those days it was difficult to get
a good job in the industry you know
and. I was really lucky that way
all the company will select me.
So, but HAL selected
I went there at that time IIT
aeronautical they wanted to start there
that guy came from HAL.
So, they took me and Thangavelu, we both went there,
somehow we want to come to Madras
Ashok Leyland also took us,
Ashok Leyland was there.
Ferra company those days, Britishers were there
they were trying to make the
English designs to in India London.
So, I was in that group.
So, it was a infact that we learnt a lot-
that main advice was by him. Sir, Adimulam-
Adimulam was my classmate.
Classmate. Do you know he is no more?
I don’t know I didn’t know. Sorry to be said that-
Infact he said you go to industry get experience
you can always get qualification.
Adimulam also joined there Ashok Leyland.
He was my batch that’s what I am telling.
He was much senior to you because he is my batch 64 he passed out of Guindy [Tamil] How do you know him?
Sir, I have interactions with all people from your year. [Tamil] No no-
Leyland when I come to- [Tamil] Exactly Exactly. Leyland when it was introduced.
Leyland of Guindy because he is should Guindy,
the year he passed out from IIT they passed out in-
I think he passed out in 71 so, but
and no way- [Tamil] Then how would you know?
I mean did the this is advice
and at that time they we believed in drawing
we used to- No even now I say design office
I still believe in drawing because
since I am in connection with the the industry for since my retirement
more closely than before,
I felt that detailed design in India is neglected fully
and people talk of big things that
some people will come and say we know
design we know computer design sir.
So, what do you know? I know.
Cadia. I know Cadia, I know Pro E, I know Solidworks.
But that is design for them.
That is not design.
No we he had design class means the design
where to do calculations we have asking about that-
those days didnt have the computers.
So, a Mechanical-
When you say this I will tell you one experience in IIT itself,
I basically introduced a new course called design practice.
I dont know, you remember? Yes yes yes yes.
For the B.Tech. It was going on for long till Gopinath was there.
He was doing it.
And we started this as a elective for the-
3rd year. 3rd year.
3rd year level. 3rd year level.
Class of- For mechanicals
and to start no to
start with the made it was sort of compulsory,
it was sort of tutorial 3 hours continuously
the boys would be given separate batches of 3
and they would be given-
Sir this is apart from those more drawing courses.
It was not drawing at to all. No no.
This is apart from this. This is drawing. Yeah yeah.
These were the some exposure to design it there. Additional.
They they have we had we will
give them some mechanical object
to be designed which is not taught in the class.
Something like automobile clutch, a scissor lift,
a luggage trolley in the airport and thing
like that we would give
and we would give them some basic things
how to approach it.
And we will say that either you design your own thing
or you take some information from others
and take a design, take a
drawing which a layout which is available and then work on it.
And this went on for I think 1 or 2 courses
after which all mechanical students said we are not
learning anything like that we dont want this course.
Many of the students. I see.
So, we made it elective.
So, when we made it elective only about
may 20, 25 students would come out of the 80 students.
One fourth of the class,
but these students were interested because they knew that
they could they want to work with the- to make things you know.
So, this was more interesting and it went on
and Gopinath also he continued it
we used to give them basic material,
automobile clutch means we would
give them a cut out the section drawing of an automobile clutch
with the in description we would give them some information
about how to design a friction clutch
because they are not exposed to all these things.
We would design them about springs
and all these things we would use them then they would do.
Any special projects you have done which you can remember?
Projects we did one very good project
for Dense Phase Pneumatic Conveying,
it was a Department of Science and Technology Project
which we did and it went- it successful.
With I had one one M.S. student Abhijit Chattopadhyay.
Abhijit sir. Abhijit Chattopadhyay you know
he was working on that and he
brought into working stage and all that thing
and after that we did 1 or 2 M.Tech. projects also on that
we collected lot of information on
Dense Phase Pneumatic Conveying in which
the the powder is not dispersed in the air,
but it is more- goes as a block like thing you know.
So, we that was a good project
we had done as a DSD project
otherwise projects basically I told you the 2
or 3 antenna projects design projects
which we did for ISRO
and for which we went through a lot of
descent review with the ISRO people and all that thing.
Otherwise in those days projects were not very big thing. But in
a department of handling I think goes it should map
I dont know. Can can you say this-
the department itself Mechanical Handling
was more or less associated with MAP.
Am I right? No that was was there no-
[Inaudible] when he left then we had to continue it.
So, the M.Tech. we started the M.Tech. course and
basically my my my design
specialization is cranes and conveyors,
from the industry as well as
the German training and here.
So, basically, but that’s the subject which now losing
popularity in the industry also.
There are very few companies in India who make
good cranes and conveyors.
You made arranged a very big
seminar in materials handling
in one of those your your- Am I?
No actually I did organize also not materials handling
I did organize two design conferences,
I dont know Shanmugam you remember. NaComm.
NaComm, NaComm. No before NaComm.
We integrate with NaComm later.
Ok, before that I dont know.
But NaComm one I attend for say in 80s.
NaComm was as one of these.
One of these sponsors also. First was 1898. In IIT Bombay.
No no we did in IIT Madras.
We did two design conferences for which one,
for which once we had this this Professor Gargi you know from
HAL, he came to inaugurate
and we had lot of papers and practical design
from the industry also a lot of people
and the CII the- the CII people they-
Indian industries people they collaborated with us
and it went off well we had lot of people
from the industry who came and presented some papers.
It went for 2 years,
then the NaComm the Association for
Machines and Mechanisms they took over this thing and
they had been continuing a every
2 years I think some design.
Any what? Sessions from you for improving in the
systems here. System improving I dont know system-
basically its depends on the industry also.
Means an Engineering is Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics.
An Engineering Institution cannot develop by itself
it has to develop depending on the industry
the industry must demand from things from the
institution and the institution must demand from the industry.
That does not happen here
that is one big major problem.
First thing there is more- The industry industry does a lot of
foreign know how know
that is the main difficulty is that
we do not develop the hardware
and basically as a mechanical engineer I would say that
hardware mechanical engineering is hardware.
If you make a robot
you have to make the hardware of the robot
in addition to the control spot
in addition and the controls spot is again hardware
from the electrical side and the electronic side
and the software part.
The Indian robotic engineer tends to specialize on the
software part only
that’s how why we are not able to make robots
like the Japanese which play football and which
which would will bring a
drink for you from the fridge and things like that know
we have to make those things
otherwise there is no meaning in
just writing software there is no meaning.
The software must be applied to a hardware
and the hardware must be made by here,
then only people will be employed.
Especially the the worker has to be employed know
the mechanic has to be employed
the machines must be employed.
Now, industries in fact, they
changing from man to machines all robots now.
Yeah, but who makes the robot?
Robot you have to make here not import them
if you make the robot here no problem
that’s what Japan does no?
If you buy a robot and ask it to turn out
so many for say an hour
thats not Mechanical Engineering
that is production only simple production
production management
you get the machine from Japan you
Germany you get the robot from Japan
you and you write the software
and then you say I am big engineer
and now you are not engineer
you are a software man.
If the machine goes wrong robot goes wrong
you dont know what to do with it
you call the Japanese fellow or the German fellow. Right?
Sure sure.
You have to make it yourself
and if you make it yourself
the employment kept potentiality of
the country will improved vastly
[Tamil] What, Shanmugam? Right sir, you are 100 percent correct.
You are in fact, in fact yes sir
Maybe it is the thought of the old old people like us.
No no no. Even now it is valid.
No the idea- No it is-
How many- as he rightly says
how many boys today they want to do drawing?
They do want to go to workshops? We had-
No no Amudachary the thing is not to just
that you dont blame the boys only
blame the industry. Environment.
Blame the environment, blame the industry.
I told you know we interact with LNT a lot
over this l ast almost 20 years
or so I have been interact with the LNT.
LNT boys supposed to be
very good in Mechanical Engineering
they are good I do agree,
but they are not to good in detail design.
They will give you a solid model of a think which they
which they have made
and then they ask us to develop the-
Parts detail. design. So, from the small screw and washer onwards
to the to the linkages or the gearbox etcetera
we have to develop
that those people are not able to develop they will say
the gearbox box was be so much some 300 dia 400 long
output shaft so much input, shaft so much finished.
Give ratio, so much
they are not able to make the gear box
and I can tell you gears is the very most simple thing
to be to be designed as if probably Shanmugam will agree.
Its a most complicated.
From geometry to design to manufacturing.
And machine inspection. Yeah.
You normally we say if one knows how to read a design and
manufacturing the inspection he can do anything.
And coming to Ashok Leyland thing like that
India still does not make a good IC engine.
It’s imported.
A good IC Engine with low fuel consumption is imported
and if I Ashok Leyland and Mahindra etcetera
claim that our engine is
low consumption etcetera
it is because their imported design is
efficient not because their design is efficient.
Do you agree? Sometimes yes.
So, if you can develop an engine here,
nothing like that.
Make it yourself that nobody is thinking over it.
LCA they wanted to develop the engine
gas turbine research in this thing.
I with I have been interacted with
GTRE for some time
from Hosur because they wanted some
high speed gearbox and things like that.
So, the the GTRE they have been trying to develop
a gas turbine for the LCA
nothing they still get it from
Rolls Royce or whatever it is you know.
Arjun tank they wanted a 1500 HP diesel engine.
Institute of Science wanted to develop or something like that
it must have dropped in the in the middle.
With our background in Engineering
and we thought of background of
Science and Engineering Science
we should be able to develop a good IC Engine here.
And IC Engine is different from a gearbox Shanmugam. Yes.
Because gearbox I can still calculate and make
I can still measure it and cheek the accuracies,
but IC Engine to say so much
so much the fuel consumption so much
it requires feel.
A gearbox does not required that much feel
they say difference in that. Do you agree?
IC Engine requires feel for the engine.
You have to do do something like the auto mechanic know
its auto mechanic, we will say that
he will do just do something and tell tell you 100 rupees.
Say say why 100 rupees he will say that
10 rupees for this part and 90 rupees for my
my know how, because he did the proper tight ring there.
That patience the Indian industry lacks
patience and confidence self confidence you know
the Indian industry lacks fully.
I know people from the industry like him LNT
I know people-
I we interact with the TaTa Engineers.
They come with big things you develop this develop that,
but then they start behaving they behave they
talk to you as a machine supplier.
They will say if you design they will say
sir we will give you a thing like this,
but we dont guarantee what exactly.
No no if it doesn't perform the penalty class.
Now, first time you are making a new thing
a penalty class has no meaning [Tamil] isn't it?
So, that attitude of engineering must change in the industry.
Then they come slowly come the Institutions will follow
Ashok Leyland and Mahindra etcetera TaTa
they should come to
the colleges to universities to do basic research.
That's what people in Europe do, people in America does.
USA does not make machines in the universities
unlike the Europe;
Europe they get more into the machine details
America does not.
But America does lot of basic research in
which is necessary for developing the hardware,
lot of research they do,
and we only talked research research, but nothing happened.
We did one project for DST you know it will be long back
now I think things have changed there
for the better and the good old days the DST manager say
you are not submitted this report.
Sir we are still working on it sir
no no this time that is the time line is over
you submit something and submit.
So, that I can close the file, finished.
he he is more interested in closing the file
not in seeing in what we have done.
So, why should I get interested in the thing?
I will close my his file and put in my report,
annual report that I have done this DST project.
I have done that DST project
and the institute will be happy, right.
This is his usual, his original colour. How he talks.
We have to change our attitude to work.
I think our psychology has been changed by the-
I go go back to our nationalism you know,
the British have changed our Psychology
the British people have made the Indian
educated class feel a little lose their self confidence,
or they become fearful of doing a mistake.
Anyway you go to the famous Macaulay designed
the system of education in India. Macaulay spoiled the system.
To kill the Indian- That is the truth.
that is the truth.
That’s what they say.
That’s what you are telling know.
[Tamil] If you speak in English they won't understand, in Tamil they won't understand, in Hindi they won't understand
and nowadays students have
Engineering graduates come for an interview
from the colleges the other colleges you know.
They come- we ask them questions in
we are a small company.
So, we don’t call from IIT or NIT or
Anna University and things like that.
So, comes from local rural college they will come
we will start off in English,
sir that that fellow does not understand well
then the we will ask in Tamil
he cannot answer back in English
we will say [Tamil] can you speak in Tamil? Yeah. Yes sir.
So, Tamil let me ask questions in Tamil then
simple mechanical questions
most of them do not answer properly.
A few of them a very rarely
maybe 1 or 2 out of 10
have understood the subject,
they will answer to you good in Tamil,
what they have understood?
And they have understood the principles.
That is the type of people we should have.
Not people who talk in English and explain it,
but if they are able to explain it in their own tongue
it's good because what is matter is
you have to understand the thing rather than express it,
and over time you will start expressing.
I went- when I went to Germany I didnt know German,
but in 3 years time I picked up German speaking
I could read German books.
Now that system that they make you.
Learn in fact, they say on the system you go.
You know- Without knowing Germany cannot.
No no, I didnt go to a German school also there
unlike you when you went
you went to the school you know.
Yeah infact even we are trained in India
with the institute and then.
The language- I didn't I didn't have any language course
I just straight away went and joined the
the company there and when I joined no German,
then we started to making drawings there
I used to make drawings
for almost 6 month I used to make only in drawings.
The good old fashioned way on T board
with T scale and or drawing machine, then
slowly then they said
you fellow you know the English know.
So, now, you they put me into projects which were-
English projects. English, American based projects you know.
So, I would write out of all their
calculations in English and all that thing,
so I used to do that.
Then slowly I picked up the language
I used to read books in English in German
the I picked up I could speak in German
not 100 percent grammatically correct, but
the standard German nobody will question me
without looking at my color
they would not known whether I am a German or not.
[Speaks German] drawings? [Speaks German]
I think we should say how the video was taken.
How video shake?
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