Prof. S. Ramani in conversation with Prof. C.S. Swamy
I am Dr. C. S Swamy,
former colleague of Professor Ramani.
So, we are known each other almost from the time
we joined together around 1961.
Professor Ramani was born in
July 16, 1934 16 July at Salem.
He had his education B.E. Mechanical
1956 he got his graduation, Madras University.
He also got B.E. Electrical
1958 in Madras University
and more than anything he was
a also got in Auxiliary Air Force
he was a aeronautical ground engineer
and he did his Masters in IC Engineering, Internal Combustion
in 1960 in Madras University,
post graduate diploma
on in management from IIM
Calcutta in 1967
he went from IIT to do that
and finally, he got his Ph.D.
in Industrial Engineering from IIT Madras.
So, he is an alumnus of IIT Madras.
Then, during in 1955 to 61
he was a lecturer in
MIT Chrompet
and 56 to 63 he was also a commissioned flying officer
in the Auxiliary Air Force,
1961 to 83
he served in IIT Madras
in various capacities starting with lecturer
and finally,
was a professor
he was both taking courses on Mechanical
as well as Industrial Engineering and Management.
And he moved over as a director
of NITIE the expansion being National Institute of
Industrial Engineering and under the Ministry of HRD
at Bombay now called Mumbai
and he retired in 93
and during this period
he had he was sent a deputation
from IIT Madras for 5 years and since it
deputation could not be renewed
and he was requested to continue in NITIE
because of large contribution there.
So, he transferred his services to NITIE.
So, he retired from the NITIE in 93.
But he served as a senior professor
in Acadamy of Excellence in Management, Chennai
and he was also a vice chancellor
of Kanchi University for 2 years 96 to 98.
Now since 98 till he
completed his 80 years 2014
he has been several things
he has been advisor, consulting professor,
distinguish adjunct faculty
in several colleges and universities in Tamilnadu.
And as regards the awards and distinction
that is a very large number starting from a student days,
but I would like to just mention
that he was conferred
the Lillian Gilbreth award for outstanding contribution
towards the Professional Industrial Engineering in 1987
by triple I E
hope with a International Institution Industrial Engineering. That's correct.
And he was also confer the Distinguished Alumini Award
College and Engineering at Guindy. Yes.
Professor Ramani, I just I wanted to clarification. Yes.
Namely you have taken your B.E. in two branches.
True. Mechanical. True. Electrical,
but during this period you were also serving
as a faculty member in MIT Chromepet. Yes.
Did you do it by part time?
It is like this
after I finished my B.E. degree
in Mechanical Engineering. Yeah.
Which is a 4 year course
they permitted us to do take up Electric Engineering
with one more year of attendance.
Oh I see. Because many subjects were common
between Mechanical and Electrical. Yeah.
So, I did that
B.E. in electrically with one more years attendance
and then joined MIT Chromepet.
Oh I see. And from my MIT Chromepet
after 2 years I was deputed
to the M.Sc. Internal Combustion Engineering course
at Guindy.
I see. For one and half years.
Went back to MIT and then I saw the advertisement for IIT
applied and came here. Ok,
that brings me to very interesting thing
you have been studying in Guindy Engineering College.
That’s correct.
And that means, you must have seen
the its ought to inauguration
the IIT Madras in 1959.
Yes, I saw that.
You mean the foundation stone ceremony I mean. Yes yes.
In between CLRI and IIT. I was not in IIT at that time,
but no it is outside. Outside yes.
And what I would like to know is
that you must have seen that gate.
It is a original gate of IIT Madras.
Yes. A single gate was there. That's correct.
Now we have got in gate and out gate
and do you have any photograph
or any rememberance of that gate?
I have remembrance, but that I don't have a photograph.
Ok. Because at that time I was in MIT.
Yeah. Just came across for the.
No this is I am talking of 1961.
61. Oh 61 yes.
61 also it was only a single gate.
Yeah single gate.
Because I joined in October.
Yes. You joined in what?
June-July. June-July ok.
So, the this gate was there up to 62
or something like that.
I remember that function, but
I don't have any idea. Yeah, that is one thing which
Heritage Centre was trying to find out
other thing which I want to know because it is
truly for heritage purposes
there was to be a lake.
Almost from the entrance
and going in front of the temple.
And then it was just
taking a turn at the shopping centre.
Yes. And going back to the lake
road or lake quick lake is there.
Very true.
Going further almost up to that this stadium.
Yes, yes.
And in fact, some time in the early 60s,
I remember there was boating was arranged.
Yes. As a this Professor Sengupto he was director
and boats were played for one day or two days
and it was a very big attraction. Yes.
So, you remember that? I remember that.
Yeah. And thereafter
they used to plant
Plantain trees all over
and the yield used to be distributed.
Yeah. Among. That's what;
that is what I was trying to tell
there was mango trees. Yes. Vegetable garden
all this from used
water. That's a sewage water. Used water.
So, we used to get it.
So, of course so, monkeys population.
Yeah. So, everything has been destroyed.
Had you anything do with NCC?
Not NCC. Ok,
but during the Indo-Chinese war in. Yes. In 1962. Yes.
We was in the same building you were called back by the.
Yes, I was called off.
You are called off for ground duty.
I was called off for a ground duty at a Kalaikoodam base.
I see I see. But then my marriage had been fixed
2 months later.
And so,
I told the air marshal
that it is happening
then he immediately posted me address the
Meenambakkam airport to be in charge of a troop loading.
I see. I had to remove all the seats and put the troops
count them and send them.
Were you again used in the Indo-Pakistan war?
No I was not in the Indo-Pakistan war. Ok.
Yes. By then. Yes.
Another thing I would like to know was
do you remember the consecration of the
Jalakanteshwara temple? Yes, I might remember
the Kanchi Shankaracharya had come there.
That is the time when I discussed with him
my intention to go to IIM Calcutta.
And he blessed me saying yes,
good idea you can go and come back he said.
To IIM I see. IIM Calcutta.
Oh that. During the Kumbabishekam.
I see I see. I met him.
No, but the Shankaracharya Shringeri had also come.
Yes. And do you remember who did that
I my remember is Y. S. Ramaswamy
did. Yes. They sat down. Yes. And did that. Correct. Ok
These are the information I just want to know because
there is nobody else to corroborate what I know.
You are correct I remember Y. S. Ramaswamy
which is dhoti and attires over. Yeah
And another thing which I tried to find out was
that see 1961 when I joined,
I was in Cauvery hostel.
Initially as a resident
then I was made a hostel warden.
62 beginning to 62 June
and then during that time
along with the PTI there.
I arranged a number of staff students sports.
Cricket and all that.
And I used to go in the evening
set up the whole thing and Natarajan the registrar
Yes. was very interested
his personal secretary Dubey
and actually we played the first match.
But there are no photographs of that. I see.
But the second match which was played,
there are photographs. I see. I got an album.
I see.
And I in that my colleague Professor Aravamudhan.
And as a technical assistant Venkatachalam. Yes.
They were both playing for the league. Yes. They also
for their team.
And Mr. Natarajan and Dubey were also there.
So, Y. S. Ramaswamy was not there
he played in the first match.
I see. I remember all this.
So, this is one thing which
I could not get corroboration so, what I wanted to ask
you for I would like to know during your
when you joined in 1961.
The English faculty who was the English faculty?
Professor Krishna Rao
then Professor Krishna Murty came
Dr. A. V. Krishna Rao.
A. V. Krishna Murty he joined later. Little later.
V. S. Kumar. V. S. Kumar was there yes
he was. Vishwanathan.
Vishwanathan yes. Vishwanathan V. S.
Kumar. Kumar was the everly bird.
Yeah, Krishnamurthy worked college. He used to
come. Krishna Rao joined a little later.
Yeah a little later V. S. Kumar was there. Yes.
Unfortunately, he is not well.
Because of that we could not call him. I see.
And you were teaching both in
mechanical and industrial engineering. That's correct,
in mechanical as well as here because
I initiated the IC Engines Laboratory.
I see. In 1961.
And at that time there was nobody to teach
the subject of meteorology.
So, I was asked to teach meteorology there.
Until they recruit to suitable professor
then its only in 1960 1961 6 65.
That I expressed my intention
to study industrial management in IIM Calcutta.
At that time Professor Sengupto was the director.
He had an intention of starting
masters course in industrial engineering and industrial management.
So, he readily agreed
to mine asked me to write the entrance examination
I wrote the entrance examination got the first rank.
So, the director of IIM Calcutta welcomed me
and I said I will go on leave
Professor Sengupto said no I will depute you with salary
provided you give a contract
to come and serve at least for 3 years. Yeah. In IIT.
So, it happened
and that's how I went to IIM Calcutta.
Professor R. K. Gupta.
Yes. Was a professor of management or?
Yeah, Professor R. K. Gupta was professor of management
Teaching financial management
and Dr. Anantha Raman was
professor of economics in the same department.
What about Professor Dutta who passed away?
He came in later on Professor Dutta.
What he what does he?
Industrial engineer.
Oh, he was industrial engineer.
Both me and Professor Dutta were
in charge of the industrial engineering section.
I see, what what other
branch I mean faculty were there I mean
was there sociology or philosophy?
Yes. History was there I remember.
History was there. Professor Narayana Pillai was there.
Narayana Pillai was there then
out of that we had a short person. Ramachandran.
Ramachandran that's correct. Ramachandran short person. Yeah,
Ramachandran was there. But sociology he was not there.
Sociology he was not there I has sociology,
but psychology was there
Govindarajan was teaching that psychology.
I see because I don't remember.
He used to teach sociology also
in addition to psychology.
There was a lady before.
Yes, one lady was there Philips.
No no that Elizabeth.
Elizbeth Kurian was there. She was a English.
So, there was somebody who was doing
a huge survey, sociology survey and all
like that was a. It could be Dr. Hamsaleelavathi.
Must be Hamsaleelavathi also. Yes,
correct. That I remember. Yes you're correct.
You see the it so, happened that
she was playing paying a
very little amount to the volunteers
who are going around doing survey.
But then I got the project rules.
That was not permitted I was sitting in there.
Oh I see. Yeah, I was sit
used to sell chairman for this.
That's how I know about it.
Now please tell me about your
contribution to IIT Madras.
In particularly the
as you said just now
started the. Yes. Internal combustion engineering. Yes,
the Internal Combustion Engineering laboratory
was initially set up by me
and later on of course,
we had a West German professor by named Dr. Stahl
who moved in 3 years later.
And he took up the
concert on the laboratory
and since I had done the M.S.c in internal combustion engineering,
I introduced a number of experiments
in the laboratory here
and since I was in the Air Force even then
I brought in a engine from HAL
for testing in our IC Engines Laboratory.
It really brought a lot of fame to our institute.
Because we are the first person
to test an aeronautical air aircraft engine
in our laboratory.
I see. And subsequently
the first batch of IIT students
when they came to the 3rd year,
I used to have a viva voce examination for the students
and I used to bring a lot of components old components
like carburetor,
fuel pump keep it on the table.
So, when each student comes
I used to ask them to pick up one of them
and say what is it,
what is it's function,
what is it made of and so on.
So, very soon news spread that I am adopting this technique.
So, all the students used to come to the
foreman of the laboratory Dr. Somashekar Mr. Somashekar
and learn from him
what are these components etc.
So, that they will do well in the viva voce.
I said that was my object to make them learn. Right.
So, it was a very interesting experience for me
to make them learn about all these things.
Yeah. In fact, that
that reminds me that German professor,
he was in early I don't remember who is the
Mr. Ebert,
but Professor Ebert was a only Yeah.
workshop superintendant.
Once the German professor told me when 59 or 60.
He used to when the first interview
B.Tech. interview he used to come
he used to keep screw driver, cutting plier
and things like ordinary tools. Yeah.
And he used to say many students had not even seen
Yes. such things.
So, you are. Yes. Something.
Dr. Scheer was there. Yeah. Initially.
Yeah. I had an interesting experience
when I joined Engineering College,
Dr. Paul was the principal.
He used to say what are a extra curricular activities,
the students use to say football cricket and all that.
So, he had a cricket bat hidden behind him.
If you see cricket I'm a champion and all that
he'll say come out to the open field
now are you a bowler or batsman now do it.
I see.
Very interesting like this.
And the Professor B. S. Murty
later took over and.
Yes, Professor B. S. Murty took over
that Professor Y. Srinivas (incoherent).
And quite a number of people he trained.
Interesting. Some of people got Ph.D. in.
Professor Gopalakrishnan.
Yeah.
good number of Professor Nagalingam
quite a few. Quite a few. I don't know
we are not in contact with. I see.
And with they all retried. They spread out and quite a few of them
went to U.S. also
B. S. Murty himself went to the U.S. for. But B. S. Murty
is no more rather there. Yes. He passed away last year.
So, 94. Yes yes yes.
But others
he was very enthusiastic.
So, that was,
but the combustion engineering came
at same time know.
Little later when M. C. Gupta came M. C. Gupta over and took over that.
Oh he.
Yeah of course, and Heitland.
Heitland was there.
Gupta was looking out of external combustion engineering.
Yeah. And Murty and me were looking out of
internal combustion engineering
and regarding your associates of the projects
Yeah. with the bachelor’s students and
M.Tech. students. Yeah. What about that
which field was you are doing it?
Was in industrial? Actually in
around 67 after my stint at IIM Calcutta,
I was taken to the Humanities and Social Sciences Department.
Where the M.Tech. courses in industrial engineering
and the M.Tech. course in industry management were host.
In fact, I asked Dr. Sengupto
is it not illogical to house them
engineering course in Humanities Department,
you should logically go to mechanical or some other department.
He had an explanation for that,
he said in today’s context
industrial engineering has got a lot of social sciences
content in that.
And if I put in a mechanical other department will
worry for that.
So, I put it in this department.
And of course, to some extent it was what he said was true.
Because management man management etc. Right.
You require a lot of so, social inputs economics
and finance and so,
Infact what I see from the
for the archival purposes
Yeah. And I went around the planning of the institute.
I find that they had planned industrial engineering
Yes. a very first this one.
Correct. In fact, they wanted
in the very first group of
people what we sent an scholarship to Germany.
Three people resourse sent in 1958 itself.
I see. So, very surprising. Very surprising. He was not done
they had given a lot of importance to
Yes. industrial engineering.
It has very much in Professor Sengupto's mind.
Yeah. And that is why when I said
I would like to go and study in IIM Calcutta
immediately said yes I will send you, but come back.
planning for very beginning. Yes.
And Germany at and German professor of course,
who had Professor Klein.
Professor Klein in Humanities Department.
And. And of course, Professor Stahl in IC engines
labority was there German professor.
I see. And. And
the Sharma was the Indian
equals German language. That's correct
yes that's correct Indian language Sharma yes.
And who else do you remember from those days Asthana.
Astana psychology. He was very young person.
He is young.
Astana and Govindarajan
psychology and related subjects. Oh, I see
was that. yes.
Were you in anyway connected with the
the warden or a any other
company? oh yes I was
when I returned from IIM Calcutta.
the then director Dr. Ramachandran
asked me to take over his warden of the Mandakini hostel
where first year students come in there.
He is first year.
He gave me reason.
Mandakini hostel. He gave me reason for that he said.
You are studied in management and industrial engineering
now you should be able to manage the first year students
where I get a lot of problems
many first year students when they come to IIT
they lose their bearings.
So, you have to take care of all that
and was a lot of anecdotes in Mandakini hostel
and in fact, one student lost his wrist watch
very costly wrist watch
and I was to investigate it.
So, I asked him a lot of questions I couldn't
finally, I said who was the last person to enter the room
how to reach or last it.
He named his colleague
who was the son of a governor of Reserve Bank in Sri Lanka.
He come on deputation.
I had felt it very delicate to ask him,
but still I called him
to the humanity through the.
Administrative block.
Security officer was sitting,
I said look there seems you some doubt
and are you aware of it he was hesitating
then I said the police are here
they would like to interview you,
but do why do you want all these things
if there is anything you can tell me now,
I will save you
he said yes sir I stole that book
which book I said the library book he said.
Oh I see.
So, then I said he must be the boy.
Then I said what about the wrist watch.
He hesitated. Yes sir, I stole the wrist watch
where is it I sold it
and got cash immediately I contacted his father
immediately he said don't spread this image
I will send the money I will reimburse the wrist watch.
The person who lost it
the person who lost the wrist watch
his father was Professor N. S. Ramaswamy
Director of NITIE at that time.
Oh I see.
So, he said Dr Ramani thank you very much
I got the money I to buying the very same watch and give it to my son.
Thank you, you were also a detective he said.
I see I did not.
Another incident is I don't know whether you remember
all the hostel cooks went on strike.
Strike that was in 1973.
73. That's what
another thing which more people don't know.
Yeah. I wanted to ask you about it.
It happened and then immediately
when the all the wardens in the wardens met the director
he said we should do something about it
we went to various hotels in Madras
collected whatever was available paying the cash and came back,
but then none of them would give receipts
regular receipts.
So, I told that director this is the problem.
We can overcome strike problem
by getting the food,
but we cant get receipts proper receipts
etc. they are not giving,
we told the accounts officer
please see that don't insist
on regular receipt the wardens are you must trust the wardens
and what receipt they give take it.
So, when after two or three days
the strike was called off and then
the accounts officer said where is the bill.
We gave him produced tits of paper
if you done we give it to the director
he said no I permitted that it was a emergency.
So, we cant give a regular bills and all that.
This was in 73. 73.
That means, it was Professor Pandalai or Professor Sampath
Ramachandran left around that time. Yes.
So, I think it was Pandalai. That was the second time
Second strike the first strike
was when I was in Mandakini Hostel 69.
69.
69 69 70 around that time. I see
I was very first year. I think I was
called for the I mean the Hostel Day.
Oh. Mandakini Hostel I remember right corner,
that it is the last hostel.
Exactly the last one very young. Last hostel
now there is I am told still that
next to that is the coconut ground.
The coconut ground is still there.
I see. Coconut trees are not been there.
I am not visited this. So, I don't know about this one
and that is the what about sports activities
and clubs and all that?
I used to be a regular visitor to the staff club.
Near the director's house there.
In fact, I remember Dr. Aravamudhan and me used to play chess.
Yeah, Krishna Rao
Aramadan was the good chess player.
Aramadan is a good chess player be besides being cricketeer and
sometimes we used to go very late at the night 9:30
and both his wife and my wife used to shout.
What about dinner?
I see.
I know you originally stayed in D block.
Yes. When I was. That's correct.
And then you moved into C 1.
C 1. Where did you moved into C 1? C 1 54
where Dr. Shankaran was there
civil engineering Shankaran.
Then Balraman Professor Balaraman was also staying there.
Then of course, we
I became a warden then I went to the warden’s quarters.
Then you came to Lake View Road.
No before Lake View Road there is another road there
similar to Lake View Road I forget the name.
I see. We were there for some time.
I see. And then I moved into Lake View Road.
B 5 Lake View Road. Yeah,
after you had left the block,
an old gentleman
with his daughter in law
ame to my house. I was not there.
To meet my mother in law.
And mother in law was a wife of a James,
but as I say Professor C. Somaiah.
And that old man was I think
was a junior or working with Professor Somaiah that's Mr. Somaiah.
So, my wife in the usual ways asked the lady;
So, what your husband doing? in Tamil of course. Yes.
And she hesitated and said
his name was Cho.
Cho. Cho that is the first time I came to know.
I see. About Cho Ramaswamy.
So, that he was your father in law. Yes.
And then of course, during
Professor Indiresan stand in the extra more lecturer. Yes, yes.
As I told you know the whole hall was full half an hour before. Yes, yes.
And it so, happened when I went after a class
I could get in the very first row a seat.
Then next to me sat
Shivaji Ganeshan's son in law Yes. Who is to
work in mechanical engineering. mechanical engineering. Narayana Swami.
That's correct.
And it so, happened his guide's wife.
Was V. Radha Krishna mechanical. His wife
came and sat on the floor.
So, he was feeling very delicate.
So, madam madam madam.
Then I said
she said no no no I am sitting with other ladies.
don't bother. So, beside there was it very.
Yes. Fully crowded in the. Yes
he was very popular He visit your house afterwards?
Yes yes.
After the lectures. Yes yes yes
of course, we meet each other, but
we don't talk much of politics now that we.
yeah. But he had a very good sense of humour
and he found in me also a person interest in humour.
So, the book when I published
Humour and Productivity, he got two sets of copies.
I see.
And he said whenever I go for a meeting or so,
I look into your book
to see whether there is any fresh joke I can quote from there.
I see I see.
Very interesting.
Could you say something about your work in NITIE?
Yes, when I went as a director of NITIE
and took over actually I was supposed to be relieved
from IIT Madras and
just before that I had enjoyed my sabbatical leave.
So, the registrar said
you have to serve for 3 years after your sabbatical leave.
So, only afterwards you can go to NITIE,
but then the then director Professor Indiresan said
after all NITIE is just like
IIT another institute under the same ministry
instead of working here he is
working there any how he is going to come back after 5 years,
but Sethunathan the then registrar would not agree.
He says the rules say this.
Follows, then I told Sethunathan you seem to be a pakka bureaucrat.
He he wouldn't budge from that then.
So, what he did was you convert all your
sabbatical leave
the salary which was paid to you must paid back and all that.
Professor Indiresan said sorry
when Sethunathan said sir I can't do much about it
even though I am on your side.
So, I met the then chairman of NITIE
and said this is what is happening,
he said no I want you here
what I will do is as a director of NITIE
I will allow you to do consultancy like faculty.
I see. You will get some more income.
So, you pay the money now and I can
compensate out of that he said.
Oh. that is how
I joined that was interesting and then when I joined
the faculty members are in only 32 in number
and there are not many research going on at that time.
So, I told the board
please I will introduce a lot of research courses
training programmes,
but I doubled the faculty I want
from 32 to 64 I made a calculate.
The chairman said we trust you we will give you,
but where will you get the faculty from?
I said leave that to me.
So, what I did was I used to visit IITs
IIMs etc. and people are about to be promoted, but
did not get the promotion some chance due to lack of
vacancies and all that I talk to them.
So, very soon
I recruited faculty from IITs IIMs etc.
In fact, later on when I visited IIM
they said Dr Ramani is coming be careful
take your faculty from here.
But I managed it and
the institute came up very well with lot of research and all that
and that is why after 5 years,
the ministry asked me to continue for a second 5 years
because I had. I see. Expanded the role of the institute.
I learnt a lot of things
academic administration from IIT Madras
and introduced the concept there.
Like the M.S. courses which we introduced here.
Like the introduced M.Tech.
I introduce the same concept there.
So, executive from industry used to come and do it M.S. course.
So, IIT experience helped me quite a bit in
academic administration.
And how many students took there
M.S. and Ph.D. here in IIT?
In IIT, under me I mean.
Under me at on the whole about 10 students one of them was
T. T Narendran who
became a dean and all that. Yeah. That he
he my M.S. research scholar actually.
So, nearly 10 students underwent their M.S. course under me.
one is Vijay Kumar who is now senior associate in MIT
you see. Oh I see.
And then Varadarajan,
University of Texas and things like that. I see.
Many of them are now in the U.S.
You have done a lot of work on disaster management.
That's correct.
And you know somewhere around the 92 or so.
The final Finance Minister Manmohan Singh Yeah.
introduced Technology Mission Project. That's correct.
And the one of the Technology Mission Projects
given to IIT Madras and IIT Bombay
was Disaster Management. Yeah. Because
they both clone to cyclones and Yes. floods and all.
So, is it the reason why NITIE got
involved and you got involved in this?
Actually, a I got IIT Madras involved in 1982.
When the Divi Cyclone happened in Andra Pradesh
more than 3000 people are killed.
At Guntur. Guntur.
So, the late Dr. Naidu was said
called a meeting of a faculty and then said
you are all scientists and professors,
you must do something about it to solve this problem.
Otherwise the nation will lose its credibility in scientists
and engineers. I put my hand up and said I can simulate
for a cyclone and train people to handle cyclones.
He said what does it mean?
I said you cannot create a war
to train our soldiers and journals to fight a war.
You are to go away with simulation. Similarly
you can simulate for a disaster and train. He agreed
and recommended to the Tamilnadu Government.
At that time the late Dr. M. G. Ramachandran was Chief Minister
in Tamil Nadu.
Occasionally he used to come to the IIT guest house and dispose files
because a very quiet place for him.
So, he called me suddenly in from the department
I met him he said
I got a recommendation
since you are going to do in disaster management,
I give you one and half lakhs of rupees,
how long will it take to do it?
I said I will take in 6 months, I will be able to do it
and finish it. Will you be able to train our collectors and others?
I said yes.
So, he sent one and half lakhs of rupees the very next day
we got it and I started my programme here
for and then at the end of it is a simulator
it is called Sim Clone.
Simulated cyclone and there was a
technical officer from World Meteorological Organisation
who was an observer in my programme here.
So, he recommended
for a small grant from the World Meteorological Organisation.
At the end of the 3 day programme
I trained about 20 district collectors,
two senior officers from Army
and two senior officers from the Police Department.
They all recorded its a very useful simulator
they learned a lot of things
which they could not have learned in real life
and recommended it should become a
standing training tool
for senior people in government
who are who have to take decisions
in disasters management etc.
It was very interesting
and that is where IIT started its the first
work in disaster management.
The simulator was a real known it is called Sim Clone
and based on that the
Virginia University in USA
is now bringing out 5 volumes on disaster management
only through case studies
and I present is case is accepted.
It is being printed by the LCL press
will come out shortly in a couple of months.
I see. So, that is how we initiated this.
Later on we got a circle from UGC saying
who is it disaster management is not being
taught in any of the management institutes?
You were teaching so much of management and all that
the answer was
if you study disaster management you will get
jobs in only in government,
but our boys want to go to private institutes and all that
and he recommended institutes
to introduce at least one course in disaster management
and very recently
it has made a compulsory subject in geography
for CBSE schools. 10, 11 and 12
NCRT has written books also compulsory
disaster. I see. To
To make them sort of sensitized to
disaster management, safety
and things like that yes flood control.
Mine was on cyclone
that's why I call Simulated Cyclone
Sim Clone it was called. I presented a paper in the
U.S. on that on that basis, I was made the Asian vice president
of the International Society for Emergency Management.
They liked the simulator very much.
I see. And even now I am
I went to NITIE and pursued that.
One or two doctor students came out
in this subject disaster management.
So, I am even though it is not very popular
in education institutes the disaster management
it is very useful for the government to do it.
See when the
Technology Mission Projects were introduced
it was told the user should
contribute at least 50 percent of the project. Yes.
So, as I remember there was
some faculty in the Civil Engineer Department here Yes.
who went to Cuddalore and Nagapattinam?
They tried to
set up I don't think it was simulator I don't know.
They collected lot of data.
And then finally,
they put them in together.
And how to manage this and all that they went to
meet one of the ministers.
And they had a very bad experience.
So, that was during the
90s. 90s. 90s 95.
So, they they were very disappointed
because it so, happened that I was sitting in the. Yeah.
project staff. Yeah.
Election all that and I felt that something which
with the government you see it was the other way around.
The government the Minister Secretary's
PA etc. was
how much will the government get?
So, the government
giving the money to all of us.
So, that was the status. That was the status. Of the Tamilnadu government.
So, I am sorry to.
No no I understand that. Include this in a interview.
That another interesting experience was
Professor Sampath then deputy director.
Yeah. He initiated what it is called
interdisciplinary research in IIT Madras.
A very nice concept
he said faculty members can go outside the department
collaborate other departments
do joint projects research projects.
Yeah, that is that continues.
He did it in a very big style.
In fact, after that
I joined hands with the Applied Mechanics Department
Professor B. V. Rao was there.
We started a M.Tech. course
on maintenance engineering and maintenance management.
Yeah, that's I think I remember.
It was very successful
my boys got very good jobs after that
then I had a collaborate in Civil Engineering Department
Professor H. Raman and myself we were asked to find out
what should be the optimal length of the outer arm
or the outer harbor in Madras,
where all ships can come and all that.
He did the simulation of a dam constructor small model.
I did the management simulation
together we got it published also
and the Madras porters also congratulated us because
they use our information
for deciding the optimal length of the outer wall.
So, it is all started because of the
interdisciplinary movement which was encouraged.
They even said we will give you joint apartments
within a same two departments
you can be professor in two departments and all that.
Similarly, there are other things in Mathematics Department
we collaborated for simulation.
I collaborate with the Chemistry Department your department.
With Professor M. V. C. Sastri.
He got a project from Department of Science and Technology.
Hydrogen energy. Hydrogen energy.
So, I did the management aspect the forecasting technological forecasting.
the last of the volumes was I have done
done by me.
I see I knew that you are. Yes.
Connected with the hydrogen energy. Yes.
Because we did on the on the
storage of hydrogen. Storage of hydrogen
yes merchant hydrogen. Yeah. And things like that.
In fact,
it so, happened that sometime in 90
the there was
three or four groups working on the hydrogen energy
in India. Yes.
And Department of Navy Yeah.
in Washington. They seem to have seen and finally,
pointed out the work done by
the group of involved me and Professor V. Srinivasan.
I see. And B. Vishwanathan
and then they contacted me and
then one of the scientists from there came and said
can you take it up?
I see. So, on our side we will provide what.
So, the idea was
to have a hydrogen storage
Correct. installed in a submarine. Yes.
So, they they asked me whether I could spend one year.
In U.S. I see. Working on and it was
something where which I could not do.
So, I had to transfer a project to an industry.
I see.
Were that is fix science foundation. I see.
Because we were working on
at installing a hydrogen energy.
Ok.
I mean the whole manifold everything there.
Yes. And they are started some work. I see.
So, I think somehow
the Central Government you know
there was Ministry of
Nonconventional Energy Ministry of something else.
Yes. So, environment. Yes.
So, all the confusion finally.
I see. A project was never given
other wise we would have
made use of the hydrogen. I see.
I remember in this project
based on the work which I had done
I present a paper in the World Hydrogen Energy Conference.
At Stuttgart.
They had exhibited a car
in the conference. Yes,
yes. Running out of hydrogen in the fuel
the exhaust was nothing but a
few drops of water that was exhausted
non polluting all that. If they have even
own plane. Yes yes. Germany.
Very interesting. But some how whether it is
because in the space side it is different thing. Yeah.
Liquid hydrogen liquid oxygen. Yes. Being used all
this quite something else.
Our projection indicated by 2025.
The main hydrogen will be the main carrier of energy.
And not the electrical wires
and so on that is the prediction 2025.
Now I will go back to something.
See you said you were in MIT.
That's correct. 56 to 61. 61.
Was President Kalam was a student there? Yeah,
President Kalam just finished when I entered.
Yeah. It is a very interesting anecdote.
After some years we were in a plane
and we were reminiscing
we were standing in the aile and talking
the air hostess came and said look gentlemen
please sit down give you a way for others.
Then I said see please sit down he said no you sit down
I said no no you sit down.
He said look when I was a student you were a lecturer.
I see. So, you must sit down first he said I
still remember that
the way he said that. Did you keep in touch with him? Yes,
but not when he became president it was
very difficult for access and all. No no no not president.
In fact, he called me for DRDO where he was
heading there. Exactly
thats why. And asked me to give lectures on project management
and my very first lecture
he said sat through the entire lecture one and half hours.
I see. To see what was he
because I did a lot of work on project management
computerizing that
and probabilistic aspects and all that.
So, he appreciated that very much.
Was Professor Pandalai was teaching at that time?
Yes, Pandalai was an MIT Chromepet we were colleagues.
I see. And he was in aeronautical engineering.
And glider was being built at that time
by Dr. Repenthin who came from West Germany.
And I used to associate myself with that also.
So, when Dr. Pandalai came to IIT Madras as a director
he was asking me to continue their work.
He came as a professor first.
Yeah professor first. Yeah.
Then he became. Then he became director.
But then I said I am in little away from
aeronautical engineering air force
and. I see. All that that is more on maintenance management,
but one thing when when I was in the Humanities Department
for the M.Tech. courses in
industrial engineering industry management
one of my strategies was to have a very close association
with the professional associations
which were connect 4 professional associations.
Madras Management Association,
Indian Institute of Industrial Engineering,
Indian Institute of Materials Management.
Indian Institute of Plant Engineering so on.
So, it was the students also I made them
you go for meetings with this association etc.
It was very easy for me to get them projects
in industries because of this association.
It was very very useful there.
So, the I kept very close
in the professional associations and industries
that help me a lot in placing that.
You say that you are still keeping busy.
Yes. And one of the things I notice is
that you are connect with the State Bank of India
as a director.
Yes, I was elected as the
director to the Central Board of State Bank of India 3 times.
For 9 years
and one cannot be elected more than 3 times
thats why they let me go.
What was when was it that was in 2003, 2013? 13.
Oh very recently.
What was your experience like there?
First of all I learned a lot about
major projects going on in India.
Secondly, I was made the chairman of the Technology Committee.
To introduce core bankings.
I see. That was a very good experience for me
and I asked them to initiate a research on
early warning forecasting
of non performing asset.
I said you come to know only after
the financial figures are analyzed,
but I being a technological man I can tell you
much before that you can sense that it is going to fail.
By studying technological factors
like a delays in supplies
and too much inventory in the
in process inventory factors like this
you take and do research
and have a early warning forecast
they asked me to do research in that,
but it was too late at then after I left
State Bank of India,
I record an association or an institute
through which I could have done this being.
In fact, your Ph.D. was on
stochastic process on event.
My Ph.D. was stochastic process of at inventory control
Dr. S. K. Shrinivasan.
Yeah. Was my guide.
One interesting thing happened
when he was to be awarded the Ph.D. degree,
the Mechanical Department claimed that
it should be in their department.
The Humanities Department said
it should be in our department he is working here,
the Mathematics Department said
the guide is in Mathematics Department.
So, you should get then finally, I said
you are not ask the candidate
you all discussing myself
finally, they gave me the Ph.D.
from Mechanical Engineering Department.
Yeah, I saw that because Professor
Shrinivasan I written monograph on stochastic process.
Yes, along with the Richard Bellman
he is collaborated come with the two very good books also. Yeah
And you have written book along with Nagarajan.
Yes, what happened when I returned from IIM Calcutta.
That was a time when Professor Sampath brought a 370 computer
into IIT Madras.
When we were teaching computer programming
we found it very difficult to
correct the answer papers of students
because they have got their own logic,
you have to read that logic and then
find out what mistake they made.
So, the three of us Koteshwar Rao from Mathematics Department
Nagarajan from Chemical Engineering Department myself
joined together and wrote a book on Fortran Programming.
Oh Fortran Programming.
Yeah. I see.
With the industrial engineering application.
So, and
the Anna University prescribed it as a textbook also.
Oh I see. Yes.
Because Nagarajan who was in chemical engineering finally,
he ended in.
Computer engineering. Computer engineering and
retired as a professor. That's true.
Are you in touch with Nagarajan? Yes, he is.
He is not well. He is not well
I have met him at Alandur more also
he lost his wife is you know that.
He was in Thiruvanmiyur know.
Yeah and then he moved over to Alandur.
Yeah stayed with some one. I met him about a couple of months back.
Oh I see. He just rang me and
said why don't we meet
so. Yeah that's you you were thinking of inviting him.
Yes. I have said that
according to me he was not well.
So, I don't know. But he is talking now
not well in the sense, if you send a car he will come.
In fact, he came to my residence one day and.
Oh very good.
We had a chat for more than two hours
reminiscing how we wrote the book on
computer programming. That's exactly the reason
because he is one of those
was in the early years. Yes and he used to
ascribe to me.
He is going to the Computer Department.
I I did not want to go to the Computer Department.
It was very interesting.
Yeah. When I went to Indian Institute of Management Calcutta
for the 2 year programme,
I was made the president of the students association there.
And the institute wanted to
change the grading system retrospectively.
Students said no we will go on strike
then the then director called me and said
Dr. Ramani you are from IIT Madras you are a faculty,
you must tell the students not to strike that's not good.
I said you taught a subject called role playing.
There in IIT I played the role of a faculty
here I am playing the role of a student.
So, I have to fulfill this role.
I see. Finally, they gave in to the students and all that very interesting.
And there was a editorial committee.
He published wanted to publish an article derogatory about the institute.
I said no.
They said you may be president,
but the editorial committee is independent of you.
They printed everything
it was supposed to be distributed the next day
it was kept in the directors office.
I went to the director's residence in the night
said give me the key
with a few students I went to his office
tore off those pages which
contained the derogatory article and kept it there.
The next day they founded the article was not there.
The editor said it is my prerogative to
choose articles,
I said it is my prerogative to.
To keep it there or not.
Very interesting.
With the result ultimately
I got the Best Student Award from IIM Calcutta
Memorial Award
because there are many interesting anecdotes in IIT itself.
We had a Centre for Rural Development in.
Yeah. Narayanapuram. Correct.
I was actively associated with that.
I developed a project called
Generation of Electricity in Villages Using Bullock.
Dr. Radha Krishna was in charge of that. I know.
And I presented one paper through costed
in Bangkok Air India Technology
and one in Colombo Sri Lanka imperial.
So, when I left IIT and went to NITIE I pursued this
I made a prototype
of generation of the electricity in villages using bullocks,
the then Prime Minister Dr. Chandrasheker
was keen he asked us a demonstrate in Delhi.
So, we went and demonstrated to him.
And he liked it so much
he said leave the machine here would get another one done for you.
Then when I came back
Professor Narasimha Rao visited our institute
for delivering the convocation.
He showed the project he appreciated.
Then we brought it to Madras Dr. M. S. Swaminathan.
He saw this and said Ramani is a very good idea,
pursue it.
I said I require funding for this
this is not possible to pursue this project,
but after now I am thinking of revising it
along with some other rural projects
and I am approaching some agencies for that
to give the idea.
For there is some
wheel I mean movement to the bullock cart.
Yes, we have a gearbox.
I see. And a generator.
So, the slow speed is converted to higher speed.
Oh I see. And then I had kept TV,
wet Grinder and all that.
I see. This was charging them.
So, that's how the
Prime Minister was very much interested in that. Yeah yeah.
And he said we have to develop villages
and these sort of things are very useful.
You pursue that he said
and what happened was subsequently
though I have some more ideas about it,
I require a institutional support for that
it is an individually the huge project to do. Yes.
But I got the ideas I am thinking of publishing in newspaper
So that it will attract attention.
Now with the cow protection and all that
I said you show the picture of Lord Krishna with cows.
what about the bullocks they said.
I have not got a good answer so,
so far it. Yeah. Bullocks are also very useful.
Yes. And with the organic manure
now our the. Yeah, organic product. Yeah with organic product
it will be very useful I am making a study of that even now.
Yeah the only thing is that
the manure produces methane.
Methane is supposed to be a green house gas. Yeah.
So, methane the half life period of methane.
Much more than carbon dioxide. Yes.
So, accumulation methane in stratosphere
Is going to.
In a long term point of view, yes.
Long time I think a problem for this.
But the gobar gas which you get out of it.
Yeah. It is 250 percent enriched when you give the gobar gas. Yes.
You can use for manures.
Yeah. And gobar gas can be used for heating and all that. Yes,
that's correct. But what you say now I think
from the point of the environment
I think that to the negative point.
Ok one thing I wanted to ask you.
Was Professor Anantha Raman. Yeah. And you.
Will you exchanging jokes or a sort of
whenever there were going to a staff meeting and all that
there use to be a sort of tit for tat.
Yeah, that I the reason for that is.
In a Humanities and Social Sciences Department
there was a divide between the engineers and the non-engineers. I see.
And because of that Dr. Anantha Raman was in the economics
non Engineering side I was in the engineering side.
So, we formed a group.
There used to be a lot of.
Now in fact, even in
the students were present.
It was they used to enjoy very much. Yes.
it so, happened that 87 or something like that.
Myself, Kuriakose and Professor Shrinivasan,
we caught the Coromandel Express at Buvaneshwara at night
11:45. I see.
Do the train comes from Calcutta.
It was boarded to time.
So, there was a co-passenger with me.
Who was working with Hindustan Zinc.
He passed out of
he passed out of IIT Madras.
M.S. or M.Tech.
I don't remember him he is of from this place only. I see.
And he told me next morning,
he said that we use to enjoy that.
With Professor Ramani and Professor Anantha Raman.
So, but he would say and immediately he would. Yes yes,
yes I used to say
industrial engineering should be out of humanities.
They they are not compatible with each other.
He said no we want you here because
we will get more funding for our department.
Now another thing I want to ask is
did Subramanya Swamy,
during the emergency period,
come to a Humanities?
C. Subramanya Swamy.
is the very delicate point. No yes, but.
No I will tell you why I am asking you this question,
because I in 82 December.
I was in IIT Kanpur
to set a question paper
of the. And there was a paper setter from IIT Delhi.
English paper setter
Professor Krishna Rao had come with me. Yeah.
And one Upadhyaya.
And he was arrested during the emergency.
Yes.
And he was talking about the emergency
Congress government and all that
and then he mentioned that
he put him in the train
in Delhi
and Subramanya Swamy being put a Punjabi.
Yes. Except that
Subramanya Swamy could not speak Punjabi.
Yes. So, he seems to have asked how
somebody talks in what shall I do?
But immediately after the train left
somehow they saw this
Upadhyaya there and they knew
they were searching for Subramanya Swamy
and then they arrested Upadhyaya.
Yeah. But what happened what I learnt was
Subramanya Swamy arrived stayed in IIT campus,
visited the Humanities Department.
Spent some time, gave a lecture,
had a discussion with the Anantha Raman.
Yes, I don't know. And was it true.
Yeah. Because later
Professor Pandalai seems to have received a letter from the
Prime Minister's Office. I see.
Yeah, this was this was that is what
Upadhyaya told me about he is coming to IIT Madras.
I see. But then I had heard about it
because the that
spread from the director’s office. I see
I don't remember,
but I can tell you another anecdote
he was invited for a dinner by Cho Ramaswamy
where I was also invited.
He was running a management school in Cochin,
he said Dr. Ramani why don't you join our board of governors there
then next day I wrote a letter him saying look
I don't want to be involved
in highly political
type of situation. Yeah because these is semi political
all that yes. Yes, something. Yes yes, but
I did not want to involve.
I knew about what he did in when he was
in IIT Delhi as a professor. I didn't know, but
He was in IIT Delhi I know.
He was union leader there.
Yeah, I know about it. Yeah.
But IIT Delhi has been in the
staff union and all that. Yeah.
For quite a long time. True.
And 98th JEE
I was the organizing chairman
And the results set were postponed by 10 days.
Because the all the
the pay commission scales were not implemented.
And so, the all the IITs struck one.
But then IIT Madras
and IIT Delhi did not join.
But Bombay and Kharagpur were very militant.
IIT Kanpur went on another way there. Yes yes,
I remember that. So,
we had a I had a lot of problem
Professor Shrinath was very angry with me,
but I couldn't do
and I told him that you have no voice in this
Yeah. because I am the organizing chairman
my word is has to taken and he agreed to that.
Finally, we did conduct.
I mean 10 days later we announced
We announced the result everything else was normalised.
At that time
when he was supposed to
visited our Humanities Department
he was not so, much a known
as he is now.
So, it must have
passed off without much notice from my side
that's what I thought.
No no no in 88. 88 You was not there.
I was not there. I was not there that's why. Not the I am only telling right.
No. No no I was responsible for another thing.
Which because still 87.
We used to have a paper in English.
So, 87
I conveyed to the directors all the IIT
that most of the students who get into IITs.
Now all they good in English.
True, very true.
So, therefore, there is no use in wasting
money as printing and setting a question paper in English,
but we will drop it.
So, they all agreed unanimously .
But unfortunately very next day
when the so, the meeting was held here and
everybody went back for the.
Next day at Times of India in Bombay
brought out center page saying
that the this is the background sorry back.
Back door.
Yeah back door.
For introducing Hindi.
In JEE and exactly that's what happened after the. I see.
That is how the
question papers started getting printed in Hindi.
Oh I see.
And initially it is for example,
we were having answering in
other languages
its like Kannada.
Yeah ok. Tamil
and there were very few.
Tamil was quite a number.
But then now it is only Hindi and English. Yeah.
But anyway it was a big
I start regretting later.
For was the it was a correct thing that was done. Yeah.
Because I have English being an international language,
that should have been. True.
But your statement is correct.
Generally, IIT students
don't require that
English language course. Except the
Except the back. Backwards. Backwards.
For them could be a special course. Yeah,
for them it is it is given.
Very true that's very true. We had very good lecturer.
That's true.
Because for those students,
I have also taught chemistry in a
for 1 year for a. I see. 2 year like that.
And professional English is something
which is possibly will be important.
For the IIT students. That's true.
Because IIT Kanpur introduced this.
My son in law was the person who started.
I see. Professional English course there.
I see. Professor Dhande
was the director,
he wanted my son in law who is a
professional English lecturer,
to start a professional English course. I see.
And he it has been running now.
The past 9, 8, 10 years now.
I see to reconnect myself to IIT Madras,
I had one proposal
which I am going to talk to the Rural Department
that I already told them about it.
And I started a course on entrepreneurship
Yes. when I was in Bombay
and the Government of India had said
that it is impossible for the government to provide
jobs for all the unemployed people.
So, entrepreneurship should come in a big way.
People should be as a self employed and become
small scale entrepreneurs
gradually they can become bigger entrepreneurs and all that.
So, I was taken as a member of the National Entrepreneurship Board
and then we talked about innovation, entrepreneurship and so on.
I designed the course there.
So, when I left NITIE and came back to Madras,
I was adviser to a number of universities here.
So, I initiated entrepreneurship course
and innovation courses. I myself
in order to show an example,
I invited a machine
called the non-electric manually operated closed washing machine.
It became a success
and the Government of India choose mine among 10 projects
giving me a grant on that also
and I thought I should also discuss with the Rural
Department in IIT Madras
to take it forward.
In fact,
out of 7 billion population in the world,
hardly 2 billion have got access to the electrical machines.
The remaining 5 billion do it by hand
including the developing countries Africa etc.
There were attempts in the last 60 70 years
to develop a non-electric machine,
they tried the cycle attach drum and all that
all of them are commercial failures
because they are trying to imitate the electrical machine
and its not possible to do.
So, I thought it differently,
did some lateral thinking
brought a reciprocating motion
to mimic the hand washing of clothes.
It was successful I have distributed villages and all that.
So, I am of thinking reconnecting myself to IIT
through this project
which can be profitably taken up by IIT Madras
because the demand will be phenomenal all over the world.
So, this is my while present this diagram to you
and if you like to do that.
Simulator you were talking of. Yes.
Sim Clone now it has something to do with
satellite this one all that
or. No not satellite.
It was done in IIT Madras in 1982
in my department.
So, what I did was,
I wrote a computer programme
to simulate the decisions which are taken
before during and after a cyclone.
I see.
Then I got the data from the
Directorate of Town Planning
from Madras, we had
data for the last more than 60 70 years.
Oh I see.
I collected that and built it into this one
and the district collectors who were trained for 3 days on this one
they felt it was very useful
and they gave some examples of that.
When the computer said there is a lot of a
heavy cyclone lot of water stagnatic and all that
some villages are marooned,
the district collector said we want a helicopter
to survey the computer said no helicopter no helicopter. Oh I see.
So, in a final session they said your computer is not responding.
I said at that time there was no helicopter base in Madras
nearest one was Cochin or Hyderabad.
Yo did not know it.
So, if you have done this mistake in real life
it have been very bad.
So, they appreciated that.
Similarly many things were simulated in the Sim Clone
and one observer for the Sim Clone
Dr. Southern he came from Australia.
He is a senior technical officer
at World Meteorological Organisation.
He happened to pass by he attended my
seminar workshop.
Then he said finally
he got a report
about this Sim Clone
in the World Meteorological Organisation.
It is a two page report
where he said
nobody has done this type of operational simulator.
I congratulate IIT Madras for having taken to this subject
and he gave a small donation a few dollars
to encourage one of the students to do research
further research in this area.
It was very interesting.
I can pass on the write up to you
about the World Meteorological Organisation.
And subsequently it gained a lot of interest
I was presenting this paper in USA
and in the International Society for Emergency Management.
Based on this
I was made the Asian vice president
of the International Society for Emergency Management
to spread it across in this area.
And subsequently
I went to myself under research scholar
where I ask given an assignment in Bhopal,
Madhya Pradesh on Gandhi Sagar Dam.
So, I went there and did a simulated model for that
and showed that if they dued a simulator
for their flood forecasting and routing
they will save nearly
nearly about 18 to 20 crores of electricity in those days.
Because you can stock more water
for the same risk which they are taking
it got reported extensively in the Times of India and so on.
I still feel this has to be taken very seriously
by our National Disaster Management authorities.
I am trying to give it to them.
In fact, Tata consulted service is very interested in this.
They said can you
train a group of our executives
we would like to do this project for Government of India
because every disaster
reduces the wealth of a nation.
Naturally. What ever development part of development it is,
Exactly. is arrested because of this. Exactly.
And I. So, I did what is called
a computer simulated for flood coasting
flood forecasting and routing.
Recently there was a the big cyclone here the Vardha.
Yeah. So, I wrote a article
in the Times of India 2 days later
on how this model could have been used
to forecast the cyclone earlier.
You could have prevented most of the restriction and all that.
How can you prevent?
By forecasting you get 6 to 8 hours
advance warning that is coming.
These are called golden hours golden period. Right.
During that time you take decisions on people etc.
These golden hours.
But I don't think with there was
a lot of human this one,
but we had only
lot of trees for all days. No no no there were several deaths.
At least I as far as I know
There were 60 to 70 deaths.
Near the. In Chennai and suburbs and all that. I see I see. Yes yeah.
Those those things can be avoided. Avoided.
I see. That the warning you get even cyclone
normally because of the radar
and and the satellite communication
today you can get clear 3 hours warning
you know where is the cyclone going to strike. Right.
With the plus or minus 100 feet also.
So, that 3 hours
you can take you can transport the population. That is correct that's correct.
Similarly, for flood.
No no cyclone shelters were. Yes.
Granted by Government of India. Yes yes. It was built. Yes yes.
I don't know whether they still exist.
I can tell you anecdote about this.
When I gave the training on Sim Clone for the district collectors,
they found most of the shelters
were being used for other purposes
and none of the people use the shelter.
In fact, some of the fisher folk on the coast
refused to go away
when the cyclone warning came
because they say you have got some cows and calfs
that's a property when you come back it will be lost and all that.
Yeah. So, the College of Engineering Guindy did a research
came out of the red ball with the stem
if the cyclone velocity goes up beyond about
35 miles per hour or so,
it will break and the red ball will be distributed
and people run away.
But what had happened was
when the red ball was exposed people broke it and took it away.
It was not there.
So, I told the Engineering College researchers, look
you are good engineers,
but you forgot to take care of the
social aspects and the humanitarian aspects.
People's behaviour during emergency
is very different from the normal behaviour.
I see. In a cinema theatre exit when there is a fire
everyone tries to rush and
they would not allow people to other people to rush through also.
There is a that.
So, that small door is not enough for emergency.
So, the behaviour of people during emergency as we studied
and built in the design of our
structures like cyclone shelters and so on. I see I see.
That 's where in the social sciences engineering come together
they have to interact together
for design.
So, lot of lessons we learned from Sim Clone
which was very much appreciated
when I present this paper in USA,
they said this type of operator simulator we have not yet designed
and they were very interested in that and I
recently also I represent a paper in Denver, Colorado
on Sim Clone.
Along with a training tool called didactic simulation
which I have developed.
For training executives a new one
which I think very soon I will be
publishing about this also.
But IIT Madras gave me a lot of
facilities and motivation
for me to choose whatever research project I liked
and this freedom
is I think one of my greatest lessons
we have learnt from IIT Madras.
Yeah that's correct that's correct.
Nice. It should continue and that is continuing. Yes,
that's how I choose the Sim Clone project
they let me go they said do go about it. Yeah.
So, thank you Professor Ramani.
Thank you thank you so much. Yeah.
I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you.
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