Good morning.

Good morning Professor Ganapathy.

It's my pleasure and privilege today to have a chat with you

so that we recollect some of the very important events, your career,

your experience at IIT

and so that we get a full wholesome picture -

of- Ok, thank you. Yeah.

I'll start with my education background. Yeah.

I was born at Trivandrum, Kerala state,

and brought up there

and it is very important to stress Trivandrum

because with my family background,

I could complete up to engineering in Trivandrum.

Because Trivandrum is a advanced city with Engineering College also. Right.

All the colleges I attended were of commutable distance by walk or by bus. Bus

Then, in 1961-

Yeah.

Our batch was the all-Kerala batch - first batch of all-Kerala.

All-Kerala yeah.

And in 1961, I passed with first rank and

First class distinction. Gold medal yeah.

and also I received gold medal from

Yeah. V. V. Giri at that time. Great.

Absolutely wonderful yeah.

Then... how I came to teaching:

the Government of India started a new scheme

Technical Teachers Training Program.

The purpose is to attract young bright engineers for teaching.

Right.

In that way we - a few centres were

selected for giving training under this scheme.

Yeah.

College of Engineering Guindy was there, IIT Kharagpur, Roorkee University.

Right.

Many of the top students applied from Trivandrum

I applied I didn't know anything about this.

I have ... aiming for IRSC - Indian Railway Service. Railway service.

Then my executive engineer I was, short while I was in electricity board.

Right.

He said this is a Class-1 officer’s scale

after you finish - even if in IRSC, you will get only

Class-1 officer therefore, you please go.

Right, that was the motivation factor, yeah.

Then I joined - I was selected - I went to Delhi and I was selected.

I joined in College of Engineering, Guindy.

It is a 3 years program - first 2 years, part time teaching.

Yeah.

And PG, postgraduate yeah,

in that way I got M.Sc. Structural Engineering from there. Yeah.

And we also got teacher - teaching experience from USA -

United States aid program, some professors Ok.

were there, they also gave some lectures:

how to teach and all these.

Then, under this scheme Yeah.

the Government of India has to provide us lecturer post

after 3 years. It is a agreement. Ok.

But Government of India was not very successful.

Right.

Therefore, what my - I saw my seniors, Government of India has given

one of the technical teacher-training in Srinagar.

Another in Jamshedpur.

Then we thought, let us find out ourselves.

I, at that time fortunately, IIT Madras applied.

Yeah.

For post.

Yeah, 1964. Yeah.

I applied for the post.

Initially I was not called for interview.

It is the same old story (laughs). I met the registar at that time. Yeah.

R. Natarajan, IAS.

Right. He is very very excellent. Yeah.

I showed him I am first rank from Kerala University

and here M.Sc. Engineering also I am second rank,

but I was not called for interview.

Then he did something there and here and Professor Varghese

I met - he asked me to meet Professor Varghese,

HoD - Head of Department of Civil Engineering.

He - I met him, he said: see actually we didn't want any structural engineering.

Right.

That is why I didn't call, then I said this and - this is

then ok, no problem you will be called for interview.

Yeah.

Then interview call came,

I attended the interview. And that is history (laughs).

Interview was held,

Professor B. Sengupto was the chairman - director - at that time.

And fortunately for me, an expert is Director of SERC

Professor G. S. Ramaswamy.

He has specialized in shells.

Right.

My M.Sc. thesis was also in shells.

That way, whatever questions he asked I answered properly.

Right.

Therefore, he was impressed and I was selected for the lecturer course. Right.

I joined in September 1964. 64.

Yeah. And other technical teacher-trainees in IIT are Professor Ninan Kurian.

Correct.

He is my classmate in Civil Engineering

Professor V. Radhakrishnan.

Right.

Mechanical. Yeah. He is from our own college, same batch. You are right.

Professor P. K. Philip

like that we joined here. Right.

So, I really appreciate and admire the

candid facts of those days you've stated.

So, I would say the same factors could prevail today as it was there

which is also a very good reason for anyone not to lose heart

because I would therefore interpret that

you set your heart on something, you achieved it.

So, that’s wonderful... As I see, you have done your

Ph.D. in 1973 in Structures, again.

Ah - Yeah Then, I have a peculiar experience in the sense

I was in Civil Engineering Department for 14 years. Right.

Then with Ocean Engineering Department, 19 years.

Right. That way, first 14 years I will tell about my experience in Yeah.

Civil Engineering.

At that time, IIT had agreement with the West German government for

Sci- Collaboration. Yeah, yeah Scientific collaboration.

And Civil Engineering was alerted a little late

whereas, the other departments will - ahead Yeah.

in the Civil Engineering Department also

there, only two branches were accepted-

Structural Engineering and - Right. -Hydraulics.

Right. Hydraulics was given preference because one professor Rouvé was there.

Right.

And Structural Engineering, we were there. At the time, only 3 -

Ah, Professor Varghese was the Head of the Department. He was a

permanent head of the department, not by rotation. Right.

He was appointed as a - Right. -Head of the department.

and then he planned in such a way that

there should not be competition between the teachers. Right.

Therefore, he identified each area for each

so that no competition between people.

In that way, Professor Radhakrishnan - R. Radhakrishnan - Civil Engineering

he was asked to ... emphasize on structural dynamics.

Right.

Professor T. P. Ganesan was asked to do experimental stress analysis.

I am the third lecturer.

I was asked to do on steel structures.

Right.

He said there - there is lot of scope for steel structures,

nobody is doing on steel structures.

Yeah, it’s very interesting because I really want to highlight the fact

that you were (...) well established or - by those - by today’s standards

a well established Department of Civil Engineering

and then you came to Ocean Engineering

which was absolutely nascent or virtually non-existent.

So, I would like you to bring out what were the challenges that

you encountered, and which I know as your colleague later,

that you successfully overcame.

The transaction had happened like this The way you planned. Yeah.

In IIT - in Civil Engineering Department -

in IIT many people applied for the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation. Correct.

I also applied. Right - which you got. And I got selected.

Yes.

1977. Yeah.

I joined. I went to Germany. Germany, yeah.

Berlin, yeah

At that time, The Government of India wanted to start 5 centres, one centre each in IIT. Right. IITs.

Right. IIT Madras was asked to do on Ocean - Ocean Engineering,

IIT Bombay was asked to do on Resources Engineering. Right.

IIT Kharagpur was asked to do Cryogenic.

And IIT Madr- ... Delhi was asked to energy and IIT Kanpur, something else. Alright.

That way we were hired to Ocean. IIT was started, no,

IIT Ocean Engineering was started.

Centre. With a 150 crores Yeah.

For 5 years. Yeah.

And they brought Professor Mitra from IIT Kharagpur. Kharagpur.

who was the head of Naval Architecture there. Yeah.

He was the first head of - Yeah he is the father figure of IIT Kharagpur also

because he was the first naval architect I think in India coming from UK

And with his [inaudible] experience, he planned properly. Yeah.

He was the first Head of Ocean Engineering. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Then when I was in Germany itself

the advertisement came for professor post. Yeah yeah.

Already Civil Engineering I was assistant professor.

Right. With a senior and all this...

then I applied from there because

I had training in - in- Hindustan Shipyard for ship structures

and there also I have gone for some 3 months with one professor

... in [inaudible] another professor. Right, yeah.

In that way all this is - that way, I was selected

for professor post in Ocean Engineering.

Not [inaudible] no.

No, [inaudible] is not. Yeah.

He is a professor of structural - steel structures - ship structures, good fellow. Ship structures ok.

Then I joined as professor there.

Yes.

And ... stayed in Civil Engineering.

Alright. Because Ocean Engineering building was not there. Yes

Then, there was given a few rooms. Professor Mitra was there,

myself, Professor Raju. Right.

He is the senior to me.

Yes.

We are appointed on the same day because I joined later.

I was junior to him. In that way we

started Ocean Engineering centre. The department, yeah.

Initially Professor Mitra planned everything properly

and we were very lucky to get German aid for Ocean Engineering centre also.

Right.

That is why we are in a, such a very good stage.

Yes, I just want to touch upon some aspects of that

because I came in the early '80s and we were colleagues.

Of course, you were already the professor there

and the amazing thing was this was a department

which was beautifully planned with facilities even before starting the

academic programmes or even the research programmes.

So, the creation of the wave basin was a challenge

or was something we could not have dreamt of

and today, historically I would say we have evolved.

Now, I would like you to touch upon the challenges that we faced

in having created the facilities - they were not so fulfilled in those days -

and how we resolved it, how that path of growth

from those days, late '70s to now,

how will you put it on the track?

... leaving alone the details, Yeah.

In Germany, it was given to Ocean Engineering researchers. Right.

After Professor Mitra retired, Professor

Raju was the head of the Ocean Engineering Department for 3 years. Right.

At that time, Professor Indiresan was the director. Director.

This German programme aid came towards '83, '84

that is, towards end of Professor Raju’s time. Time, yeah.

Then Professor Raju ... requested Professor Indiresan,

the Director, that he will continue

as the coordinator - for the German programme. Right. Right.

And Professor Raju and Professor Indiresan were - at very good terms. Right - Yes.

But I objected to that.

I fought tooth and nail with Director Indiresan. Yeah.

And told him that this is not a usual project

it was a project given by the German government to the institute. Yeah.

And it should be yeah done through the department Head only. Right.

It is not an individual project. Right.

Because no individual has submitted this project. Right.

That way, he didn't want to take any decision. Right.

Who? Professor Indiresan. He is- Indiresan, yeah.

That way he hesitated because my

argument was very strong, he could not say no. Right.

And you were talking for the welfare of the balanced

growth of the department. And he hesitated

and wrote action can be taken by Professor Sreekanth.

Right. Next Director. Right.

After Professor Sreekanth - Srinath. Srinath, yes.

Professor Srinath has come. I met him. Yeah.

I told him all these things. Yes.

Then I came and that way the head of department only has to

look after that, he told. Right.

At that time fortunately one German -

[Inaudible] was also there. Right, yeah.

In that way he was ... good terms with all the faculty and all this.

Yeah.

In that way, things went off.

Yeah.

And he planned for this multi-element wavemaker

there was objections for multi-element wavemaker. Right.

from some people. Yeah.

[Inaudible] we overcome that

and I also went with him to Danish Institute.

Yes, Danish Hydraulic Institute, yeah.

Who were the fabricators and installations - Alright. - for all these things

Everything was done properly. Exactly.

So, to put it back in a nutshell

what I would say is that that very positive intervention

has made the department what it is today after more than

35, 38 years

and another peculiar aspect those days was:

we had the facilities, we did not have the experience.

And let us say, we did not have the confidence

of how to utilise these facilities for research, for academics,

I think it's very important to highlight how we overcame that.

For giving - Yeah.

At the time one Professor Krupa - Yes. - Technical University, Berlin.

Yes, I was with him also there, yeah. And Professor Kraus

were also experts for us and Professor Chandy. Yeah.

Was called to... give us training there for some time, On the DAAD fellowship there.

so that you can use the facilities. Yeah.

And all these things. In that way, who else will... like that I have also gone-

few people were given. Yeah. Sundar was there. Yes.

Training and in that way it was not -

and from Danish Hydraulic Institute also some people came there. Yes.

Yes. Another thing is I had a Indo-German project with one Professor Kuriacose.

Ok right. And the multi-leg articulated tower. Towers.

One person also came here. In that way the transition was not bad. Right right.

Now I think that was a very critical decision that gave us a lot of self-confidence

because if I remember right. we used to search for a global expert

to help us in experimental hydrodynamics

we finally learnt that we are the experts ourselves. We grew the hard way.

You know there also I had a little bit fight. Yeah.

This Professor Krupa, German. Yeah.

I was in Germany, I know the system. Yeah.

There is what is called über Ingenieur. Yes.

In that way, all the work will be decided by him. Ok.

In the work shop, in the laboratory who should do what, all these things.

Right. That way they wanted to have a same system

over engineer, one over engineer should be here

and they met Professor Srinath and all this is -

I told him this over engineer will not work here. Right.

Here it is a democratic country.

Yes, He cannot act - our head of the department also cannot overrule -

Oh ok. - over engineer. That way I very, very much fought with him.

Yeah. That over engineer need not be there. Yes

The what is it called - wave time manager they called. Right right.

There need not be any wave time manager, everybody will continue like this Yeah.

and all will be having freedom to work, whatever it is. Yes yes.

The facilities and the expertise can be shared between people

and all this I have to struggle harder to argue with Professor Srinath.

Right.

Finally, he agreed. Yes.

you know I want to recall the genesis of Naval Architecture

in our department because

you know, I mean you should share with us

how we... So, I was in Civil Engineering at that time. Naval Architecture was there

even in Naval Architecture, in Civil Engineering Department

Naval Architecture was not given any proper- Yeah.

figure and it was consider as a second grade department.

I think we started as a conversion course for the

Cochin Shipyard - Engineers, Cochin Shipyard and all.

giving them a degree in Naval Architecture. Yes. Degree people with.

Our some people came here and there. Right.

Right that was the beginning. That way it was going on, yes.

Then when the Ocean Engineering Centre came, Yeah.

Still they did not want to be here yeah initially. Right.

They had academically, administratively, very difficult problems

that way Professor Indiresan appointed

Yeah Professor Right.

Very senior naval architect to look after the -

Yeah Ocean Engineering, no, Naval Architecture section. Yes.

And he was - He was from Garden Reach Calcutta right.

He was sitting next to our - Yes yes.

He was there for some time, but still the problems were not solved. Yeah.

And these people fought with him and all such things. Yeah.

I think we had just 3 colleagues in those days

to teach the entire Naval Architecture programme.

And Ship Structures I used to take. Yeah.

And these people ... sometimes will take and will not take

in that way I got help from Swaminathan of Mathematics Department. Mathematics, yeah.

For wave - Seakeeping and. yes yes.

That way smoothly I took. Yeah Then, Ghosh Roy left. Yeah.

Then Professor Indiresan said I will be looking after administratively

for the Naval Architecture and ... Naval Architecture

In toto has come to Ocean Engineering. Yes.

In that way I also consoled Sambandan. Yeah.

Who did M.Sc. with me and all this. I had good terms with him. Yeah.

Of course, with also.

And he was made co-project coordinators for two or three projects. Yeah.

So, that his importance need not be - left out. Yes. Yes.

In that way they became smooth.

Yeah And it has become a part of the Ocean Engineering Right.

Centre as B.Tech. Naval Architecture came

and now I think it is called B.Tech. Naval Architecture

and Ocean Engineering. Ocean Engineering, which is

more to - that way it has merged totally with Ocean Engineering. Yes.

So, that's where I would say that your contribution - key

contribution - was bringing together

what was a Naval Architecture division under ocean - under Civil Engineering

back into the mainstream of Ocean Engineering

and today, of course, we are all harmoniously working

so. Cold War was. Yes.

stopped. Yes, exactly that is what I am saying.

So, I admire I want to bring it to record the vision that you had

in bringing, because although Ocean Engineering

is a multidisciplinary department

we had our own problems and issues in this coexistence

and growth and everything.

Now, I want to touch upon some other aspects of those days

when Naval Architecture again was at that nascent stage,

I know that in your career while you were a

full fledged faculty and professor

you chose to go to the industry voluntarily

and spend 6 months, please tell us of that incident and experience.

See, I was asked to do on steel structures. Yeah.

That way I did.

Professor Varghese said steel structures here nobody else is doing anywhere

that way it will be very good if you go to

Bharath Heavy Plates you know HPVP. Yeah.

They are making this. Pressure vessels.

Yeah. Pressure vessels, spherical tanks

and all these. are making this for sometime there

and also Hindustan Shipyard where they are

fabricating ships. Ships.

In that way 6 months yeah he asked me to go there, yeah I went there and

I had a good fortune to have friendship with

Sambandan, Sambandan was there at that time. Right.

And other two. Yeah.

Misra and. yes other such people I stayed with them.

Yeah. I studied very well. Yeah.

How the structure is fabricated and how

that ship structure is nothing but a structure like any other.

Absolutely. But the loads are different.

Yeah. Loads are different by end sea loads and other such thing.

You just said that ship structure is nothing but just like any other structure

now this is one thing I love about the way you were teaching

that you could simplify many otherwise difficult concepts.

I remember being a student in your own class,

that you always made a subject look very easy.

To me that is a very important hallmark of a teacher.

So can you please narrate any incidents that may occur to your mind,

your interaction with the students,

did you always have a smooth time with them, did they really challenge you,

did - is there some incidents?

Yeah. Positive or whichever way.

See, after my retirement I was in Nagercoil. Right.

And there is in Tirunelveli some colleges are there. Yeah.

They called me for giving some lecture one day. Right.

And there a principal - no there principal is - was

He - he has done Ph.D. in Hydraulics. Right.

That's all I knew. Yeah. Of course,

good friends and all. Then when he addressed the students, he told

I taught him the Fortran language.

When I was in civil engineering, I took computer programming for the beginning. Yeah yeah.

He told, I know I knew computer programming only through him

and he took us Fortran language, and that was surprise to me.

I see he recalled the fact that you were there, teaching them. Yeah

And even our - Heritage - our CEO. Yeah.

he is, Kumararan yes yes. And he has written a email to me yeah.

That I attended your class on plates and cells.

Kumararan I mean

Yeah. Which was good and he has took.

Yeah, he was in the early '80s there. I met him. Yes yes.

Yes he was our student in the early '80s.

So, he is been here enjoying this job yeah

Like that some...

So, I again recalled because when I came to the department in '82

and joined the faculty, the early days.

'82 I was [inaudible]... Yes yes.

So, the early days were the days where you could hardly find

any vehicles in front of the department.

I remember seeing a Fiat car in front of the department,

we professors used to proudly owned our cycles and use them

for that matter, Professor Indiresan himself was on the cycle.

So, days have changed.

So, I would like you to touch upon the nostalgic aspects of those days

how - how were the camaraderie between colleagues,

you remember we used to have a tea room there.

Yes yes.

So, the, the - See about the vehicles: I used to come to IIT by my cycle

then towards the end I had this Luna. You had a Luna of TVS yes.

Then 1 or 2 years before my retirement I You had a Maruti, I know, I know.

Still I have in my house. Yes.

Then we - I always - we wanted to be together. Yeah.

That is why we started a coffee club. That's what I am saying, yeah.

And I - I know many people, they will bring the coffee (...)

professor or HOD or whatever it is.

He will bring there and Yes.

But I will never do that yeah I went there and

I will eat. That way I used to meet everybody. Yes.

Now the coffee club was a very important place to meet.

In fact, we even used to discuss in the faculty meetings

the issues of the coffee club, you know. I also used to take charge of that.

So, what I mean is it was a good fraternity of the

department in those days, yeah. And yes, faculty also went for one outing

Professor Indiresan also came. Absolutely. See, after Director post, Yeah.

That also ... incident ... after director post. [Inaudible] Yeah, yeah.

He did not want to go to IIT Delhi. Delhi.

Or something ...

... I don't know Yeah.

but he wanted to continue in IIT Madras. Yeah, yeah.

Being a Electrical Engineering professor

he was having some problem with Electrical Department. Right.

That way Ocean Engineering. Yeah accepted him to be here.

Yeah. Because he had that ocean energy project.

Right. He was - he gave ideas to Professor Raju and Professor Ravindran

that way all the 3 were, in that way I, I was called by the - the - then deans.

Yeah.

Professor Prithviraj and Professor Kuriakose. Kuriakose yeah.

Yeah. And they had, not they - somebody had some bad

thinking that I will not accept Professor Indiresan.

Oh, oh, ok. I will being ... I being head and all that. I told them, I will never do such things.

Right. He is always welcome, you forget about all that then. Yes.

That way he came Yeah to Ocean Engineering.

And when he left,

he thanked me and he said: you cooperated with me always.

Absolutely, I remember the days when he was our colleague also, yes

yeah And if he was given full freedom to continue the Ocean Energy Project. Right.

All these things. Yes.

Yeah, where he also had a stint in Germany for a couple of years

I think. I have met him there.

Now coming back to our subject area and ocean engineering today.

I just wanted you to share on a more global basis

or more on a national basis

that those days we all used to go abroad

for these collaborative programmes and

short and long-term stints there.

I always remember China used to send huge numbers of their

researchers to the West - to the Euro - to Europe, to Germany

and they were received in a big way.

And today after about almost 40 years

we have seen the transition of China which is a fact.

Now as Ocean Engineering Department

and with our interaction with the industry

how do you think we can take a leaf - I am not trying to say

we should copy China - say, how do we take a leaf out of this -

what kind of advice would you give,

that - how do we intensify the benefit of these

abroad stints where we get back something,

how do you think if we had an ideal scenario

that this could transform our industry into a

larger entity than what it is today.

See first of all, the industry should have an open mind to come to us. Right.

They came. See, even now I will not say no. They have come. For example,

Defence. Ministry of Defence for that ... just to give an example. Yeah.

These INS Vikrant was there.

Ski jump. They had the - they had the normal planes. Yes.

When they got a Harrier aircraft. Right.

It is heavy. Yes and it should have ... longer runway. Larger runway, right.

Larger runway is not possible therefore, they wanted to give a ramp. Ski jump.

That way they asked to descend the jump - ramp

so that the turbulence should not come. Yeah.

That project was given to us. Right.

We did it successfully with Professor Chandy

and [inaudible] was the Director General of Naval Designs. He came there

and - and the Chief of Staff also visited.

Chief of Staff also visited and they were very happy with the - Right, right.

similarly, this ISRO. Yeah.

In fact, sir, I would like to touch upon or stress on the fact that that Vikrant project

the creation of the ski jump was a wonderful

state-of-the-art creation by this department. See, I am not a

expert on this turbulence. Yeah.

But I saw. Yeah. Professor P. S. Srinivasan was there in the fluid mechanics. Yeah.

At certain stage, this- that wooden pieces which was - such - vibrate. Right yes.

[Inaudible]

That way they found out some such things and all these things.

See, it is a beautiful thing that somehow the navy had the confidence

to go by the tests and investigations that the department

conducted and implemented. That only now they are having that - Right, alright.

Naval Research Board or something. Naval Research Board. Yeah, yeah.

So, I think that's a nice example you have given

which is in a way an answer to the question I asked earlier

that we - do you agree that we need to be doing this with much more intensity

because nothing builds like success, nothing succeeds like success

you know? Yeah. Similarly there is ... ISRO. Yeah.

See this PSLV they are sending. Right. And we saw... capsule falls. Yeah.

That is left there itself.

They wanted to see when the capsule falls what will be- Recoverable. -the vibrations

Right. Whether it is got - got - spoilt or it will be floating. Yeah.

That way we did experiment with Bhattacharya.

Yeah, I know, the reentry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

We two also did some software - We have done. And inland waterway. We have done, yes.

Yes. I do not know. See, the faculty should go

far away to ask. Yeah. Now I see in the newspaper; as a retired person

I am reading: inland waterway is very very important. Some fellows are telling. Yes.

That way we have to go. See, we are having expertise,

we will be able to solve many problems, we have to tell. Yes.

But if teachers are in their ivory towers, nobody will come. Yes.

I think I'll be happy to state here now

based on the foundations that our predecessors

have laid including you of course.

Not like that... Today our interaction with the industry is quite intense.

It should be.

So, yeah of course,

if you visit the department you will see the amount of activity

we have with the shipyards,

national, international, yeah. And we should tell them: see we are having these multi-element wave maker, Yeah.

Using this we can do so many things. Right.

For example, Naval Physical Oceanographic Laboratory.

Laboratories yes. Underwater cable... it's all very very

important defence-oriented projects. Right.

On the look, it will be looking nothing. Right.

But these are all very useful. Yeah.

That way what will be the configuration of the cable... Right.

And vibration will take place... Yes.

Or what should be the force...

all such things we need some projects like that Yeah That is ...

we - people are going for - and Orissa and that port. Right.

Gopalpur port. Yes. Gopalpur port, from there all the way he came. Yeah.

Even now the approach trestle is constructed there... with our design . Absolutely, absolutely.

It is standing and Sundaravadivelu is still continuing as -

And Sundar and - Yes, he is the expert on ports and harbour structures

and Sundar and company - Another, another - - they are the experts on break waters.

which I will say my contribution is

I started this user-oriented M.Tech. program. Absolutely.

Yeah. For port engineers. Money was given by them.

Right. That is according to me it is the first-user oriented in IIT

Madras- program that you started.

They paid money. Yeah.

And their engineers came here and our syllabus was slightly modified

or electives are added which will be useful to them. Yes.

In that way, user-oriented...

and that is the starting point for the present user-oriented you are having

2 or 3 petroleum engineering - With L and T. L and T. L and T. All such things, yes.

we also have a program with NIOT.

User-oriented program for M.Tech. in Ocean Technology. Yeah.

Yeah, that is true.

So, I think people today should remember that

our predecessors have done a lot of wonderful foundation job

which anybody would have done,

but the important thing is, this kind of visionary,

No visionary - steps -

They should continue the project without any selfishness. Yes, absolutely, yes.

During my Headship. Yeah, I never took a single research student for myself,

because people should not say being Head, he has taken by all these things. Yes.

Yes. In that way for 4 years it is a webworm.

I would recall this personally in the case of many of our colleagues

where you saw to it that they are taking and guiding and

you know, producing the - or at least guiding for the Ph.D.s

in a time-bound fashion because I remember your cautionary statement always

that if you don't take care of yourself -

And you used to provide the most important impetus for that. Yeah.

Looking at - looking back at all those things

I just wanted to ask one more thing,

would you like to have a message to our colleagues today? No,

Please don't say no, because I would like to say, No-

Messages should be always given and old people will give

No, I would like to receive it with pleasure. Yeah.

See what I get - get an impression is nowadays many people are selfish. Yeah.

They feel they want to improve their own biodata

without bothering about the progress of the departments. Right.

That should be Yes.

And we should collaboratively - unity should be there.

Yes. Or cooperation should be there. You should have Right.

another person who is in another area, whatever it is. Right.

And do some projects; we have to go out of the way

and inform the ministry, no, departments

see we are capable of doing such and such things. Right.

Right. Please come. Right, yeah.

So, that would be the key to success, the key to collective growth, yes.

See, Team effort. Yeah For example,

yes, this is a, this - MRPS, MRPS something is there, no?

Right.

They are exporting. Yes.

They made, but unfortunately it is not satisfying the

international standard because there is a small gap. Yeah, yeah.

Myself and ... Chandy Yeah.

Visited there.

and they are applying the pressure - liquid pressure - everything, everything is same,

but when the - and temperature is there volcanizing.

At the temperature, it - it expands.

Yes. Therefore, the metal comes out. Okay.

That way we gave a solution that - this should not be done like that.

That way they did and that way the projection was not there.

Nothing to do with Ocean Engineering. Yeah.

But still. Yeah. Because of the experience in the - see,

Chandy did for this integrity monitoring using ... artificial... Of the structures.

Yes. Neural network. Yes.

All those things has helped us to -

and we got a project from ONGC. Right.

For the- Integrity monitoring of the structures. Artificial neural network

for integrity monitoring of structures. Right. Monitoring of structures.

We did an experiment. Yeah. It was quite good, we made a jacket tower.

Yeah.

Measured the ... dynamic characteristics. We cut it. Yes.

Damage, yeah. Then there the it can be shown, see.

And this can be identified by our ANN or software like that.

Yes, yes. We have to convince them. Right.

Because managing directors are not experts. Experts.

in, in that way

they can see this, oh, these fellows

they have some ideas, etcetera, they should know. Yeah,

I ... think that is a very important hallmark of our department

because we have been interdisciplinary. Because we have to come down. Yes,

We have been interdisciplinary for example, just to briefly share

I am doing a work for the defence related to the

ordinance factory, the infantry combat vehicles.

Because they are going to be amphibious.

So, as you said it is not a ship. Yes.

But then the moment it's in water - Land also it will come and - Yes.

So, you know, with that kind of a open mindset

we have been able to collaborate

very effectively with the industry. And they are the apt people for designing that hydrocoil.

Yes.

Nowhere else; except IIT Kharagpur, nobody else will do.

Exactly. Hydrocoil designing.

Exactly yeah.

Structurally, you can take the help of our people. Right.

See at the time ... there was a proposal to

buy submersible by the government.

Central government. Right, right. There were some meetings

I was also asked to attend there by some people

but fortunately the cost was very much. Enormous. The secretaries

decided not to buy yeah that way submersible ...

bought. Could have been bought, yeah.

...I should not forget to touch upon another aspect. Yes.

Because we were at a time not having all the experts for all the subjects

because of the highly interdisciplinary nature

of the syllabus of our programmes.

And I remember how you led from the front by taking on courses

in the undergraduate level and with that example

you saw to it that our colleagues also take on courses.

We had courses like mechanical handling systems.

That is exactly what I wanted you to touch upon

you know just for the benefit of the- See, mechanical handling department I had a good rapport.

With Professor Parameshwar no. Because I took there - what the design of the crane -

Yeah.

Which ... it was a M.Tech. course, two courses are there.

Mechanical Handling 1 and 2, I took. I was taking that

That way, I can ask them to - shipyards and all such things Two courses for this. See, Parameswaran was very good that way

he did. Right. And we got some projects, Chitram crane company Cranes.

and all these things. Who set up the crane in Cochin shipyard, yeah.

And Professor Parameswaran used to design that gear and all this. Right.

The structural things. Right. I used to do and

fabricated and it was - So, you know it was a.

- Mechanical handling Yeah.

For only marine, of course, Vijayan helped afterwards I do not know

our people themselves - Yeah we had. We had - had studied and

Mechanical Engineers also joining us. Yes. And ship structures, I was taking.

Then Bhattacharya studied, Right. And we were taking. Like that

each man prepared themselves to - That is what I am saying, so the

the most important aspect was that we had the courage

and we did the hard work and we solved our problems

and we gained in confidence.

See. Yeah. Now, if you see none of us are experts on anything.

You take Professor - Sundaravadivelu too

now he is doing in coastal structures, ship structures,

not ship structures, boat structures, etcetera. Right.

By experience, experience, experience he gained. Yeah.

Structures are structures. Yes. Then

how the loads come. Yes. That way, similarly yourself.

Yes.

Or Sundar. Yes. Like that, like that, like that, we study and bring it.

So, I think that is very important. That is - that has made a good difference in our approach

to handling our problems taking our teaching. We could have easily said, no sir exactly this is not our

area, we cannot run - Yes.

or look for another colleague to be hired. Yeah. To get M.Tech. Ocean Engineering,

We have to fight like hell at that time. Yeah.

To start M.Tech course engineering. See, there was opposition.

Some unwanted opposition: a centre cannot start a M.Tech course.

Right. It has unfortunately our name was called - Ocean Engineering Centre. Centre.

Right.

In that way I met Professor M. C. Gupta, Dean of

Academic Research. Right. He is that - etcetera, etcetera, etcetera,

everybody helped us. Correct.

Yeah, I think we have -

Only reason why Ocean Engineering Centre is

thriving now is we had this educational programme -

all other 4 IITs, it's went down. Yeah.

Yeah. Resource Centre, in IIT Bombay Right.

Nothing is there, Right. Except maybe 1 or 2.

But here we are having a whole - entire department by

that 150 crores, Yeah, it is a full-fledged department, yes. Which was

started by Nayudamma Committee. Right, right.

Then cryogenic. Right. Cryogenic is there,

but not as a department and all these things. Exactly.

Because we had this academic program, we were successful. Absolutely.

and I think we had the vision and open mind. And how we have spread. Yes.

Yes. ... some petroleum engineering, Yeah.

that, this, that, etcetera ... many things.

Yeah, today we are so busy and so full that we don't have the space

and of course, IIT is expanding.

So, we have solutions for going into

more common academic complexes and

you know, spreading out a bit in the institute.

So, I am so happy that...

Ah, then, You could recollect. About other than

academic programme what were the...

I was a warden in Saraswati hostel

that is all normal. Right. But how

some students came sir you helped me lot

and all this, that is all normal.

Then as Engineering Unit, Chairman - that was a

good post. Professor Natarajan was the Director. Yeah.

He gave me a very good appreciation. Yeah.

And all this. Though I opposed

a little earlier when he was not Director. Yeah. There is a - there was a proposal

to have a guest tours for IST.

Indian Society for Technical Education,

which had good rapport with somebody ...

Yeah. They wanted to have a guest house near

some prime location. As a Chairman of Estate we discussed.

And the Senate I opposed tooth and nail. I see,

It was to be within the campus or?

It was to be within the campus. No, I suggested it is very good to have a guest house,

but you have it above the NCC building - NCC building or something

there - You are right. not a independent guest house. IIT is not meant for giving

guest houses, etcetera for others. Right. Right. I told.

Then when I came out from the Senate room, one or two colleagues:

how you can tell like that

to the director?

It was very very good what you told, but it was very dangerous.

Again, again, now that you - it just takes my mind back to some other aspects

I would say you never hesitated to call a spade a spade.

You know - See, after going home - Professor Natarajan called me. Yes

At that time he was not director. Yeah.

He was IST Chairman or something like that. Right.

He told hey, why, how you're giving a space for ICSR,

but you refuse to give for IST. Yeah.

I said ICSR - ah, NIOT. Ok.

How you are giving NIOT space in IIT. Space, but not for IST

Yeah.

Why do you want to compare NIOT,

Government of India is giving a lot of money for the IIT

and the department, IST what they will give?

Yeah. They will come and go.

Chairman will come and go stay there.

Correct. For 2 days and go away. Right.

How can you compare like that? Yeah.

The same Director has given very good appreciation after my...

Which meant you - you had the.

No. Conviction to - to hold to what you felt was right

and it was proven right. That's more important.

See, there is space in the NCC building first floor, second floor,

third floor, we can construct and leave it. Yeah yeah.

And again to put it on record the same NIOT has today blossomed into a huge

institution with who we are very closely interacting. Yes.

Thanks to the very positive attitudes we had with them.

Yeah, again to recount, during your chairmanship of the

engineering I always thought or always observed

that you always went into the details of small things. For example,

in between the main gate. Yeah.

In-gate and out-gate there was this thorny bush. Correct.

Right. Before were they were trying, trying, trying - it was not

it is having a very environmental problem it will never get destroyed.

Exactly it is very pernicious. And it will not allow other plants

to grow. Right.

That way I gave contract and I assigned; it was completely removed

not only there, even near the hostels. Yeah.

And now it is a very good garden. Yeah. In between there

and also now is not to be seen.

Yeah, yeah, of course, it was a recent issue that people even went to court

how IIT could remove it and all, I think we have amicably resolved it.

No it will not allow - Yeah it is a very

pernicious plant - other plants to come. Exactly, exactly

Now, I remember because even those days

you know we have this peculiar problem of

so many banyan trees in this campus

and they would grow invariably with their seeds on buildings

creating crevices.

So, I remember in your time you had a mission

to remove them from all the buildings

because it was ruining the buildings eventually.

Not Yeah, which comes under the - yes, exactly,

so, it's always very important

to look into the minute details which makes a big difference.

See for example, this - Yeah. Right. Speed breaker.

Being a Civil Engineer I went to IRC, courts are there

how it should be ... marked. Laid yeah.

Yeah. I insisted our engineering unit to see that IRC

marking should be done on the ... speed breakers. On the speed breaker yeah.

They done and it was, Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Previously, it was in a something else, ... laying on something. Yes, I remember, yes

to standardize it was taking a long time, yes.

I think one of the hallmark developments in our country was the

pioneering development that we did with regard to

wave energy in this country particularly with regard to the

oscillating water column and putting up a demonstrator plant at Vizhinjam.

So, if you could please tell us the genesis of that and how it went ahead,

the problems that we faced, how we resolved it, yes. I didn't resolve any problem.

See, wave energy is the brain child of Professor Indiresan.

Indiresan yeah.

It is very layman's approach type.

Yeah. See, when the energy is there, why not we

In that way at that time we had that 4-metre flume.

He took 2 drums.

Yeah. This - and the when the wave passes

it will move up and down. Oscillates, yeah.

And then it will have some ... and like it was bending and all these things. Yeah.

Yeah. That way he was convinced it will be very...

Right.

And there were there were many professors in IIT, not our Ocean. Right.

They said it doesn't satisfy the equation and all.

The energy. Thermal. Yeah.

Equilibrium itself.

Yeah. It doesn't satisfy the laws of thermodynamics, it will be a failure,

they told. And of course, they would have suffered also,

perhaps Professor Indiresan would not have liked it.

Then, then and that way, but; however, we had our Professor Raju

and Professor Ravindran. Right.

Who, when, Ravindran being a mechanical engineer, Yeah.

they were doing a lot.

And we are - as a department, we gave all the support. Right.

Though I never got involved because it is not my area. Right.

It is area of Professor Ravindran and of course, Professor Raju

also, in that way it was going on. Yeah.

And fina- in ... they made a prototype. Right.

On that they got money from the government - central government,

the real problem as I see are ICSR at that time.

It is false, fluctuating. Fluctuating.

Energy. Right.

Therefore, if you take an average it will never be useful.

Ok. It cannot be converted to the

Sustained useful. Sustained useful conversion into energy, right.

... but I see because of that they should not leave. Yeah.

They tried their level-best with the prototype also. Right.

But it was not really successful. Yeah

possibly it was technical, but not commercially successful. Yes. Yeah.

I mean. Yeah. And another thing they wanted to do ... ocean thermal energy.

Right yeah. When there is difference between the depth

Yeah.

Here the- Surface water, yeah. Temperature is less.

And they brought a scheme in Lakshadweep we can have.

Yeah. Shore-supported ocean energy. Right.

Etcetera, etcetera. Right. But I didn't see that as a commercial.

That is true, yeah. It didn't come up.

They, I don't think they have created directly electrical energy

or power out of it but I think they have been using it for desalination

using the cold water from the bottom and the surface warm temperature

and running a reverse refrigeration cycle or

flash evaporation yeah. In this case, it has not reached a commercial point. Yeah

Possibly the place Lakshadweep you can justify

because they do not have any choice yeah. But at that time still they are telling

nothing is coming up. Yeah. They could - see, as I told. you should convince the

decision-maker. Right. They should

go and tell the decision-maker, whoever it is.

Right. Then if he is convinced he will say,

there if it has not come, the mistake is you should not - we have not. As clear yeah.

Or it is not capable of. Correct, correct, correct, yeah.

When coming to the GATE. Yeah.

See at that time Common Entrance Examination for Postgraduate Admission.

CEPA. CEPA.

Other IITs were joining with our IIT for a few periods. Right.

then they said, no, no, we are going away. That way our IIT continued.

And we conduct the exam

we publish the results. Yeah.

Based on the result they used to give admission also. Right.

CEPA, that is - So, CEPA was the prelude to the GATE.

GATE. Yeah.

Just above before we stop.

Yeah. I was the controller - they will appoint a controller. For conducting

And joint-controller. Right.

Joint-controller will be controller for next year. Right.

That way, like that, last class

I was controller and a joint-controller was

Professor Padmanabhan - K. Padmanabhan Metallurgy. Metallurgy.

Right, yeah.

That way, when Professor Padmanabhan became

controller, at the time itself, GATE has come.

Right. And it was stopped and it has

...transitioned to - GATE Transformed into the GATE. Gate, right, right.

Yeah. It was a very, very tough job. Right yeah.

Secrecy is so much. Yes.

Secrecy is so much. Yes.

Even for the proof correction of question papers.

We should not get the ... help of others. Yeah, right. All such

things were there in that way, our IIT did very well. Yes. Even today

JEE etcetera is done at the topmost, secretly. Yes.

Yeah, definitely, there is an example of how to conduct an exam

and how to take on the aspects that there is no league,

there is no malpractice, there are no mistakes

and I know it is a nerve-racking thing.

So, you pioneered the CEPA and then it became the GATE. No pioneering

I was - It was a - It was running on.

Was it already running many years? I see.

4, 5, 6 years. 4 - 5 years ok. Yes. So, it evolved

ok. CEPA, it was called. Yeah, yeah, great.

Because of the experience, GATE came. Yeah. Yeah.

Similarly at that time JEE also we did for the first time

civil engineering, I was.

The chairman was Professor Varghese. At that time, JEE. Yeah.

So, and I was involved in JEE many ways.

...so many days. Right.

Then, till then the rank is by mechanical - manual.

People will find out, you will call the number and then

then - at that - when Professor Varghese was the chairman

he said, they decided, why not we use the computer. Computer, yeah.

The computer - you cannot asked, I didn't tell. About IIT Madras, Yeah.

When I joined, Professor Sengupto was the Director. Yeah.

He isn- people say, he was of the opinion. Yeah.

that my engineers need not have to go to computer they should use the slide rule. Right.

That way he said no computer and he didn't come at all.

And many people were interested to do. Right.

Then we used to go to College of Engineering Guindy. Right.

They had IBM 1620. Right.

And when this JEE ranking came

we prepared the rank, student mark.

Right. Student mark, each card punching - myself and Professor C.

S. Krishnamurthy. Right.

We punched all these things, all secret. Now

you should not tell this has spread - and then we went to

College of Engineering Guindy. Ok.

One minute, it will come.

Yeah ok. Test will sort out.

Right.

And we will took the print out and gave and

it was useful - like that, the computer.

Was slowly initiated into the process. Yeah, yeah, wonderful.

And when Professor A.

Ramachandran came next to Professor Sengupto,

first thing he did was to get IBM 370. Right, yeah.

That way, things move. That was our very fancy, high-end

system in those days, yeah.

Wonderful, sir, I think- Thanks. It's been my great pleasure to touch upon

all these aspects and

I'm so happy you could share your experiences

which will be a great

pleasure for viewers of this series

to learn of the heritage of IIT Madras, the transition from those days

of course, we are still a young institute

less than 70 years right, 60 years yeah.

Just like I am young, said to be young. But I find you absolutely young at heart.

Most wonderful.

Thank you very much for - bringing Yeah thank you so much.

out all the details. Yeah, thank you so much. My pleasure.

Hello, we have today ah Dr. M. Vikram Rao,

who is a 1965 graduate,

one of the earliest batches, in fact, the second batch.

So, Vikram tell us a little bit about - about yourself

and what it was like getting into IIT Madras

and describe the day you actually came in here if you can.

Well, in the back - back then we did not have a JET

the - the joint entrance exam

and we so, we all had interviews.

So, we - we were examined on the basis of our marks

and we had interviews.

And I still remember that my first interview

included Professor Koch,

he was a German Professor and - and

and he was - he was asking me what did I do,

what were my interests and I said gardening.

And I think he wanted to be sure,

I - I think they accepted something more erudite,

but they did not get it.

And so, he wanted some examples of - of flowers, okayay.

And so, I threw some out you know and then I said roses;

he said: Oh! Roses, when do roses grow?

So, I said: oh mostly in winter, all the year round, mostly in winter.

Later on, I realized

that that is absolutely the wrong answer for Germany

but it's the right answer for Delhi. [both laugh]

But I got in. [laughs]

Nice. So, which hostel did you live in

[Prof. Mahesh] and there was of course, only Cauvery at that time. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah so, that's

an interesting one: we were the second batch,

but we were the first hostel residents of the campus.

So, we were all in Cauvery at that

time and we were - we had roommates

and then ... second year we - some of us shifted to Krishna

and the 64-65 rest of them;

the 64 people who were out in Guindy, they came.

So, we used to remind those first batch people

that as far the campus is concerned, we were the first batch.

Because we were the first residents.

And what was it like to go to class on the first day?

[Prof. Mahesh] Did you walk, bicycle what was - and what was it like? [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah,

All the classes were held at AC college

and central research lab

CRL we called it, I guess central research lab.

And - and we were taken in a truck and I - I thought that was neat

because we had these nerdy elite students

coming to AC College in a truck.

Oh yeah, I mean it would have been a completely -

they would be expecting somebody in an air-conditioned bus

or something, okayay?

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] But we came in a truck with hands - slide rules in the hand,

it was fantastic.

[Prof. Mahesh] Nice. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes, it was very nice,

I mean it made you - brought you down to earth;

you know, that you were regular guys, not the select few.

Talk a little bit about classes at that time;

was it lecture, did you have discussion time in the class?

Yeah, so, the - the classes were - were lectures,

there was discussion,

there were something called surprise exams

which didn't last more than one year

because they were very unpopular

but I still remember one class...

see, there were no - there was no air

conditioning of course, okayay

and there were fans, but kind of depends upon

where you were and so forth and

I still remember Professor Koch,

the same guy who asked me the roses question,

sitting - standing in front of us in CRL in a classroom

and just perspiring, you know, his face was red, [Prof. Mahesh Panchagnula laughs]

his handkerchief was completely soaked to begin with

nd he was trying to - [Both laugh]

I don't know how these Germans survived our summer, but.

So, it was difficult to concentrate in that heat

with a little bit of fan that might be running.

Sure, wow, you came through with all of -

with all of those hurdles

and classes started booming into campus

[Dr. Vikram Rao] They moved into [Prof. Mahesh] here in

[Prof. Mahesh] your second year or third. [Dr. Vikram Rao] campus second year.

[Prof. Mahesh] okay. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah yeah, second year.

And that would be BSB 105.

Yeah, it was, yeah and I think

of course, no AC yet as I remember, but there were good fans.

okay good - good.

So, tell us a little bit about the administration

that was running the campus at that time, the Head, Sengupto.

Yeah, So that was interesting, we were Madras campus,

Madras in those days, although we are still IIT Madras.

[Prof. Mahesh] We are still IIT Madras, correct. [Dr. Vikram Rao] [inaudible] brand, okayay.

You need to correct these people who say IIT Chennai

and yet, we had a director who was Bengali,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] which I thought was impressive, yeah. [Prof. Mahesh] okay.

And the - the administration was amazingly

tolerant of behaviour from us,

which was of course intended to be humorous

[Dr. Vikram Rao] but nevertheless sometimes borderline disrespectful. [Prof. Mahesh] Yeah.

And I - I still remember this very interesting

incident with Professor Sengupto,

who was the director and we - we had a strike, okayay.

Now, you know, rest of India, students strike all the time,

we didn't know how to strike.

okayay, and we were not able to consult the

the professional strikers, okayay.

So, our strike was for water;

I don't remember: not enough water or what,

but it was - it was water, and we didn't go to classes.

Oh that was your strike

[Prof. Mahesh] not going to classes was your strike, okay. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes, okayay.

So, Professor Sengupto came ...

and he - and - and he said, he was angry, okayay,

and he did not use a mic,

he could have been heard 2000 yards away.

And - and he said: "You people,

you think you are the cream of the Indian high school system;

you are not the cream, you are the scum, they both rise to the top". [both laugh]

So, of course, in the next issue of Campastimes,

I got Saha to do a caricature of Sengupto.

Well, he is Sengupto, but with a blue face, okayay

and he was stirring this thing;

he's saying "This is not cream, this is scum." [both laugh]

And then I wrote - I wrote a piece with it,

this is the closest I came to being dismissed -

Me and Saha, although I put him up to it, so, I could be blamed.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah so... [Dr. Vikram Rao] So, they put up with it, that's just the thing, okayay.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] They realized it's all in fun

and really...you know, anyway, they - they put up with a lot

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah. [Prof. Mahesh] I'm sure.

[Prof. Mahesh] So, yeah you mentioned Campastimes, I think. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah.

So, you are one of the - you were the - among the

founding group of students

[Prof. Mahesh] that brought this illustrous piece out. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes. So, I was one of them.

Yeah. So, Professor Klein who was a German professor,

who also had a Ph.D. in Sanskrit;

we got together and said we need some kind of

a published organ

and we came up with that - it sort of grew

... and the name came from a sandhi of campus and pastimes.

And so, it's called Campastimes,

people mispronounce it all the time but we cannot be helped with that.

And it was published - on a - Anand Singh Bava was the editor

and Diocesan Press published it,

printed it and Klein was the publisher, I think.

And ... we just sort of had fun;

we would - we would have these production meetings

when there - there wasn't - there was sp - blank spaces left.

So, one of us would fill something in and so, you will see there,

there are fillers with no initials on them,

that's usually, probably us just filling in the blanks.

And who - how did you go about getting the content to go?

I mean, was there a formal process or you just,

how many students were involved in it?

I would say, in terms of contribution,

total would have been about 15 students and

no, there was no method to that madness, yeah,

a few of us would ... and we came up with newer and newer things

when we ran out of ideas. So, Cup of - Over a Cup of Aye Aye Tea (IIT),

was somebody, I think Siddhartha who

got on that idea: Over a Cup

and then somebody said "Oh, IIT" and - and then divertissements,

which is so easy to write for.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] All of us wrote for divertissements,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] because that's just pure humour, okayay, you can just pick anything. [Prof. Mahesh] Yeah.

Just - it just grew ... there was no plan.

It was an - it was iconic at that time, I mean

copies would run out

[Prof. Mahesh] you know when they - [Dr. Vikram Rao] Copies would run out, because

we didn't really charge; despite it saying 10 naya paisa,

there were naya paisa in those days.

There would be piles that would be used

and people would pick them up;

yeah ... I can't remember but we probably put out

[Dr. Vikram Rao] 7 or 8 in the first year or something like that, yeah. [Prof. Mahesh] okay.

First year meaning, first year of its life,

which was I think our second year.

So, back to academics,

you were in the Metallurgy engineering stream.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes. [Prof. Mahesh] Who do you remember -

who are the some of the professors who made a -

[Prof. Mahesh] an unforgettable impression on you? [Dr. Vikram Rao] Oh yes.

So, they were quite - but the - the main memory

is E. G. Ramachandran

and he was the Chairman

and I'll tell you a story about E. G. R.

it's absolutely apocryphal. I - you know - in fact, I am reminded -

I am - the similar story is told about ... Richard Feynman,

the Nobel physicist - that apparently he did

almost exact same thing

when he went to give a lecture course in Cornell,

although he was at Caltech.

So, E. G. R. came to us;

I think this is my fourth year

to teach us a course on Advanced Metallurgical Techniques.

He came: first day, he was sitting front of us, we were chatting

and one thing led to another and he said:

do you people understand quantum mechanics?

Now, what kind of question is that, okayay.

So, he then proceeded to ask a few,

nobody he knew enough to his satisfaction, okayay.

So, he threw his notes, threw his notes down

and he said: we're going to learn quantum mechanics

and he taught the whole darn course from here. [Dr. Vikram Rao points to forehead]

I don't remember seeing any notes, ever;

now might be, the memory is a little flawed after the years, okayay...

but amazing, this is like some sadhu sitting under a banyan tree

with 10 chelas around him and learning,

just experiential learning, it is amazing.

Very few people can pull that off;

you - you know - you'll have to have knowledge

in your head to do that and the desire to actually teach.

Yeah, those are the people that built IIT

[Prof. Mahesh] to what it is today in many ways. [Dr. Vikram Rao] They were,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] and there were many who did it in a different way. [Prof. Mahesh] okay.

I would say so, it's hard to know what is the

true foundation of a place;

but without doubt the true foundation of a place is the - is the

leadership at the time, which includes the faculty,

but also the administrative leadership. you know, Natarajan

told lot of jokayes, not all good,

but not all funny, I mean they were all good

He was our registrar, very young guy at the time,

well, lookayed young anyway.

Yeah, you know - that - it's hard to know what is a true foundation;

but I would say yes, particularly because it grew from scratch.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] okayay and you had to make up the rules as you went.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah. [Prof. Mahesh] The campus environment,

you've visited the campus several times since your early days.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes. [Prof. Mahesh] What was it like watching the campus grow, if you will?

Well here is the thing, I was blown away when I came

to see all the trees; because when they built the hostels,

they must have had to cut down trees, okayay.

So, in the hostel area it was pretty barren.

No, in fact, it was all fields; there were no

trees in the hostel area.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Ah so, I do remember that there was nothing there. [Prof. Mahesh] Yeah.

But now you see there are trees there.

So, I assumed that by some regulation you are

required to put trees back.

No, purely voluntary.

But the thing I was really impressed with

and I don't know if it's voluntary

or whether it was enjoined on you,

because this was a state park,

Adyar park or whatever it was - Adyar forest.

It was not enjoined.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] okay. [Prof. Mahesh] It was just a

[Prof. Mahesh] decision of the leadership at that time. [Dr. Vikram Rao] But - but the true impression I get

when I came back after many years is,

blown away by the fact that, by and large,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] you can't see the next building from one building. [Prof. Mahesh] Yeah.

And that some of these old banyan trees are still there,

it's difficult to construct that way.

So, it - there is no other campus like this you know, Powai,

the IIT Bombay people

say it is a sylvan campus, not really, okayay.

In fact, there is no campus like this

which has a true what we'd call sylvan setting.

And you would, how would you go - go out to

find some real life outside?

Bicycle; well, also, although there were 4 or 5 guys

who had scooters and motorcycle.

So, Bava had a scooter, Basu John Vetteth who has passed,

who by the way was one of the all-rounders, had a motorcycle;

Mahesh who has passed as well, had a scooter

of course, his family owned Bajaj scooters.

So, he had a scooter.

But [both laugh] sorry about that - that but it's true;

but the - but the - but the scooter and the people

were not obnoxious about it.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] I mean there were only what 4 or 5

they were really down to earth; some of them were wealthy,

but it didn't show, we rode the bicycle.

And you had to be careful,

because if there is a stick across the road, you avoid the stick.

Because stick that moves when you are wearing chappals -

an angry snake is not to be tackled with chappals, okayay.

So ... we avoided sticks,

just to be sure; some of those were really sticks.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah [Dr. Vikram Rao] But who wants to be sure. [laughs]

And the deer were getting used to the -

Ah, deer we were - we were - we were trained on that,

but several couple of guys got hit.

See the training was that if the - if you see deer

and they are trying to cross, wait for the last one;

wait, just wait okayay, because the straggler usually a smaller one

it's still going to cross

and then they have to cross over you. So, [laugh]

Yeah, how did you communicate with home back days -

[Prof. Mahesh] back in those days? [Dr. Vikram Rao] Letters.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Letters; pretty infrequent letters, if you ask my mother. [Prof. Mahesh] Letters. You had a Post office -

and you'd communicate back.

Yeah - yeah and this is the interesting thing;

I don't know what any parents would have done in those days,

They - they just trusted to the administration, I guess.

Nice and what was it like to be in the hostel:

describe the hostel life.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] That Life, if you will.

Yeah, so, the - the - as I said, the first

year we had roommates in Cauvery

and then second year onwards, we had single rooms;

it - it was highly collegial, see part of the thing is

you are stuck in the middle of a forest.

So, you had 240

for the first batch students and the second batch students.

Yeah, first batch was 120.

So, our batch was 120 students, well, when we started,

there was some iteration;

but by second year, no,

I - I would say the first batch might have been a 110,

yeah about 230 or something yeah

[Dr. Vikram Rao] and then we were all there. [Prof. Mahesh] Added on every year.

But see, because we were the first residents of the forest -

which as I told you we reminded them of -

we were highly collegial.

So, the Campastimes thing had 64 and 65;

there was no senior/junior stuff okayay

in - in most of things like,

I used to be on some debating sort of things

and we were all together.

So, I don't know what any other campuses are these days

or how it is now;

but it was highly collegial,

people from all walks of life just being together.

I get the feeling that all aspects of IIT

grew together: academics, campus,

extracurricular activity, student growth;

I - from - from everything I hear,

I don't get this feeling of a sequential growth process.

I don't think we were allowed to grow sequentially,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] it all was happening at the same time, okayay. [Prof. Mahesh] Yeah.

And - okayay, you know, I like to say IITians are

not arrogant, just elitist okay and I hope that is even true.

But at least all of us are sort of fairly smart

and you got to figure it out, you can figure it out on the fly.

[Prof. Mahesh] Yeah. [Dr. Vikram Rao] If as an IITian you can't figure it out on the fly,

then who else is going to and I think we just

figured it out on the fly

and the faculty allowed us to and they did the same thing, okay.

See even the curricula, all the curricula was invented on the go;

for example, we used to have Workshop,

I mean, this is a disaster okay,

actual hard work, okay, some of it just - cold chiseling,

you don't even know what that means, okay [laughs] [Dr. Vikram Rao enacting the method]

So, this was - this a chisel, metal chisel, metal hammer

and if you went from here; you didn't get any marks,

you had to go from here

And then you had to hit this, you are not allowed to wear gloves,

so that means you learn.

[Prof. Mahesh] It builds personality.

It would build something, big fat thumbs is what it builds.

okay, and - and then you tookay this - this - this U-shaped object

and made it into a paperweight which is flat.

[Prof. Mahesh] Sure. [Dr. Vikram Rao] okay. So, I think this is, but it's a great leveler.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] okay. [Prof. Mahesh] So, you wrote a lot of caricatures for - for IIT Madras,

[Prof. Mahesh] I mean for Campastimes. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes.

So, name some of the people you caricatured

and personalities you remember from your days then?

So, actually I'm not sure that -

it sort of just happened;

usually the caricature - the early part is easy okay,

because you picked some of the faculty

that were interesting

and or some of the student body that was interesting.

But after a while, it was just if something happened;

then on basis of that the person got picked.

And - and so, what I would do is, I would go -

So, Professor Sampath for example,

who was a double E (Electrical Engineering) Professor;

I think we now have a Chair in his name.

So, the Sampath one happened is that,

he was just a larger-than-life person, okay.

So, he was an obvious choice. So, I went and interviewed him.

So, what I would do is, somebody who I did -

didn't know all that well,

I would interview them and just get some facts

and then fictionalize them [laughs]

[Prof. Mahesh] Nice, nice, nice [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah.

So, tell us a little bit about your convocation

the then Education Minister was your convocation speaker.

So, I actually came to the darn thing okay,

some two days; and the reason I am telling I came to it,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] because I didn't go to my Ph.D. convocation, okay. [Prof. Mahesh] okay.

I was ... actually, I came because we were a family okay,

that is why I came, okay. Yeah.

And nowadays I may or I may not come.

So, I don't remember much of the convocation

other than the speeches and that some of us got,

actually I got an award for this damn thing for some reason;

I did - it was all made up,

because how could there be an award for

Campastimes, okay?

No, no, I think it broke a path

[Prof. Mahesh] inside a forest called IIT Madras. [Dr. Vikram Rao] Yes.

I know, ... most

of what I remember about is just meeting them again;

see we left early, see you don't realize this.

See we - we graduated early because of the war, okay.

And so, we graduated I wanna say in February or something,

[Dr. Vikram Rao] but the convocation is at the regular time. [Prof. Mahesh] Sure.

So, there's a gap, so we all went home and then came back.

And so, it was good to sort of meet everybody.

So, what I remember mostly is saying goodbye correctly;

because when you leave, you sort of all scatter, right.

But saying goodbye correctly and seeing the place again

as an alumnus, it was - it was very cool.

So, I don't remember the pomp and ceremony,

I just remember the fact the family came together.

I think all - every student in the - in a

convocation would say exactly this.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah. [Prof. Mahesh] The pomp and ceremony is secondary.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] Yeah. [Prof. Mahesh] Describe what it was like leaving IIT Madras,

going back. Did you leave alone?

Did you have some friends go out with you - what was it like?

No, because I was going to Delhi in a train, okay

and there were only a few of us

and we didn't, no, we did not go to

I don't - no recollection of going with anyone,

because I think we were about 3 or 4 from Delhi.

See, that time because there was no joint entrance exam;

they deliberately had pockets from all over the country.

So, there weren't that many from any one particular area.

So, I don't have much of a recollection of - of the leaving part.

Very nice, this has been a fantastic interaction;

would you like to say anything?

Well, no I have - I would like to say

this is wonderful to have a Centre like this;

it's not often that your heritage is preserved

[Dr. Vikram Rao] in - in a way that is interesting, see this is the point. [Prof. Mahesh] Yes.

You can preserve in ways,

but it has got to be interesting to the casual observer.

[Prof. Mahesh] Correct. [Dr. Vikram Rao] And while I am not a casual observer,

I can put myself in the place of a casual observer

and say this is a terrific place and thank you for having it.

Thank you so much for doing this.

[Dr. Vikram Rao] No, no, no worries. [Prof. Mahesh] Yeah, bye.

Good afternoon, Professor Venkatarangan.

Thank you. Thank you very much Usha, thank you. So,

on behalf of the Heritage Centre, I wish to extend a very

warm and affectionate welcome to you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you

very much for accepting to join this

Oral Heritage History Interview

and conversation and I am a highly honoured.

And it's a pleasure for me to engage

with you in this conversation.

Thank you. And I am sure in the next 50 to 60 minutes,

we would have learnt a lot about those golden ages, golden age

of your career in this department and in the institute.

And- Yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you very much.

So, I will first start with a brief introduction about myself- Ok.

And how I joined the institute. Yes.

I was a graduate B.A.

Mathematics from Government Arts College, Coimbatore.

And it was about 18 years

when I completed my graduation.

It was an exceptional thing because

those days, they were very strict

about age restrictions. Yes.

But there were some special cases.

Where they exempted people who were highly motivated and then,

they allowed them by the Director- Ok.

of the Director of Education,

school education and we were asked to complete

our SSLC and take our graduate course.

So, I did my B.A. Mathematics at Government Arts

College at Coimbatore, it was B.A.

at that time not B.Sc., B.A. Mathematics

and then, I got a first-class rank.

And then, I wanted to join B.E.

because at that time, there was a clamour for B.E. students

and therefore, I wanted also to join, but because of

financial circumstances, I could not join

and it anyway it was my ambition

to join some engineering college

and become a graduate in Engineering.

But my uncle advised me at that time because of financial reasons

to become a teacher B.T. was only a 9 months course, Bachelor of Teaching

so, he said you join

Ramakrishna Vidyalaya at Periyanaickenpalayam

and I joined there and then in 9 months I completed my B.T.

at Ramakrishna Vidyalaya Periyanaickenpalayam

in English and Mathematics.

Two subjects we had to take and English and Mathematics.

Then, I joined as a teacher

in Municipal High School, North Coimbatore

and I was there as a B.T. assistant for 5 years.

1957 to 62, but at that time, I had always been aspiring to be

a graduate in Engineering so,

there was no other option, but to go for AMIE,

that was another avenue which was available to me

and so, I was earning and learning also at that time.

So, I was doing my AMIE course

at a Institute at Coimbatore,

at a private institute at Coimbatore.

And I was the only one who passed

a section A of AMIE.

In the first attempt from that institute.

And then, I was interested in doing section B

and becoming an Engineer.

So, when I took leave for section B,

from the school, at that time, I was interested in doing LE also,

Licentiate in Electrical Engineering because AMIE I have passed

so, I thought let me do LE also simultaneously

so, I came to write the LE examination in Central Polytechnic here.

At that time, there was an advertisement in the paper about IIT Madras

and then that year, they said that

they will admit students for Mathematics.

This was which year? So, pardon.

Which year was that? That was 1962.

1962. 1962, 57 to 62 I was a BT assistant.

62 I came here to write the examination because

it happened to be the date of interview here at

IIT Madras also was happening to be the near 1 or 2 days near

so, I stayed here and then I came to the institute for the interview

and that time Professor Sengupto was the Director

and Lakshmanaswami Mudaliar was the Chairman at that time.

And then, I went for the interview and there was the big hall

and that was in the now housing Civil Engineering Department,

there the Director’s Office was there and there was a

long table and all that which I have never seen in my life

till that time because that was a very big table and then,

about 40 or 50 people will be sitting around and then,

we were called in for the interview

and luckily only five people were selected.

And they said, of course, we told them that it will not

be possible for me to do the

thing here because I had some problem

with finance, and they said we will give you scholarship

and so, all the five of us were given scholarship

and I think it was the same with the Physics and Chemistry also

that was the first batch at that time.

So, we joined here and at that time, we were not having a

separate department, we were housed in some three or four rooms

in the HSB. So, this interview is for

admission into Mathematics Department? Into Mathematics.

For graduate programme?

Ok no, for the Mathematics they gave M.Sc.

Entrance, for entrance there was a interview, oral interview and then,

they selected based on the. Ok.

Performance in the interview. Ok.

There was no examination at that time. Fine.

At that time, there was no examination.

And so, five of us were selected.

And then, we continued here completely and then in the year 64,

we got our M.Sc. degrees.

And then because I had taken leave from

the institute from a municipality at Coimbatore as a teacher

so, I went back and joined there and then, Professor Nigam had

joined in the department. He was the role model for me in teaching

as a matter fact possibly you must be knowing. yeah

That he was the role model for many people

who wanted to be good teachers

so, we became good teachers only because of him.

We used to enjoy his teaching and he used to have classes

even after the college hours at that time. Yes

In Hydrodynamics. Yes.

And then, we used to go and meet.

So, there was plenty of give and take between

the students and the faculty at that time

because that was about one;

one year since he joined, at that time,

Professor Srinivasan was the head,

S. K. Srinivasan was the head.

Then, after I joined there, the DOO who came to see me

he said better go and join for Ph.D.

and why did you come here unnecessarily

as a teacher wasting your M.Sc. degree.

Then, he I-I appreciated him,

and he said I will get you leave and so, you go and join.

When I came here, the date was over.

Date for applying for Ph.D. was over,

but then, Professor Nigam took me to Professor Sengupto and

said that he is our student, one of the best students here

and I would like to take him so, he has not applied, already one,

one week has passed, then he said it doesnt matter, let him apply

now and then, I was selected. Oh Nice.

That time and then, of course,

I told Professor Nigam about my family circumstances and all that.

And the next year, after I joined as a Ph.D. scholar,

he took me on the staff.

As a Senior Technical Assistant.

The lower most possibly in the department at that time.

Ok. But anyway, I was very happy because I could get some money.

Ok. And then, help my family that was how I joined the department.

And then slowly I had a good reputation of being a good teacher

because I used to follow Professor Nigam and

he used to give me a classes

and whenever teachers were about to go,

I was waiting for them to go.

And then, whatever classes they were taking, I will take from them

and then, go on teaching and so, like that;

though I was a Research Scholar for one year,

I could go on teaching even at that time itself. Ok.

With the permission of Professor Nigam,

I will go and teach the students

in the absence of the teachers and that is how I entered

into the department as a Senior Technical Assistant

and then, slowly I went up

the ladder and retired as a Professor in 1997.

Ok. 97 and 90 till 98, there was a extension for me 98

June I think, 98 June I retired. From the institute. Ok.

So, that is how I got into the institute.

And of course, my ambition of

becoming an Engineer was not satisfied,

but coming to an Engineering College

was satisfied. Satisfied.

And I used to get paper for correction from AMIE.

Ok. Where I had completed my course.

So, they just followed me and then,

I was getting paper correction from AMIE. Ok.

For for section A students in Mathematics. Ok.

So, I used to do that. Ok.

So, that was how I entered the institute,

and I had a very pleasant experience.

All through.

Ok. So, as a Ph.D. scholar with Professor S. D. Nigam.

So, what were your experiences, how how was

I mean what was his approach in-

No, he was. -moulding you.

Yeah, yeah, no, not only moulding me, moulding many people. Ok.

When he came from Kharagpur, he came from Kharagpur IIT.

At that time, we were all thinking about

only the previous staff member

S. K. Srinivasan and others, but when I joined under Professor Nigam-

Because Professor Srinivasan had already taken Research Scholar

so, he did not want to take me at that time, he said you please ask

Professor Nigam so, I asked him. And then, he took me.

As a Research Scholar.

There were three Research Scholars with him

at that time and there were many other

staff members who were interested

in doing research under him

though they have not registered at that time,

even Srivastava and other people.

So, when all of us we will meet in the evening,

every day we will meet in the evening

by 7:30 after our food in the hostel,

we will come here and

Professor Nigam also will come from his house

and then, from 7:30 to 9, each one will tell whatever he has read

and found interesting, he will present it. Ok.

In the seminar room of the department.

And so, the department will be active till 9 O’ clock.

At morning 7:30 or 8 O’ clock,

Professor Nigam will be there before we come from the hostels,

he will be there. Ok.

So, he was such a nice man and at that time

there was not much of journals which are available in the library

in the fields in which he was working- Hydrodynamics particularly

So, but he had a interest in collecting all the paper

and so, he used to have a bundle of papers collected from

some persons and he had to return them.

So, we used to copy those papers of other authors in Hydrodynamics.

And then, we will be at the time of copying, we will be

interested in knowing what they have written and all that.

Right.

So, that is how we started and then one day he will say

you take up this paper and present it here.

So, like that he used to ask the students.

He will never give the topic of research to the students.

The students have to find it for themselves.

So, he will say if you find this interesting, go ahead,

see these journals and then, read and present it here.

So, I used to work in liquid helium also.

Ok. I mean in the beginning.

Liquid helium and then, stationary principles, all those things, but then,

he left us completely free by that time I became

a staff member also so, it was part time for me.

But anyway, he will not leave if we present something

to him one evening, the next morning he will come and ask

what did you do about that?

Have you found out the answer for my questions?

He will come to my room and then ask.

Exactly. What so, that is how he started.

The creating enthusiasm in the students.

By his enthusiasm in the students.

Exactly. That is what he used to do.

That was how he motivated us.

And then, we will go and tell him sir, this is the field,

I feel that there are some interesting things

which are here then, he will say please proceed ahead.

And then in the seminars, we will present

and then, he will say take up this topic.

So, go on doing research.

So, that is how we started with that.

So, there was the topic of research that I had

was on the use of local potentials.

As in chemistry, there was a Prigogine,

Ilya Prigogine by name.

And he was a Nobel Laureate.

He had come to IIT Madras also. Professor Prigogine

had come here. He is a Chemistry Professor of Belgium

University and he had come here and I was interested in

doing work in his field and so, I had done some work already

and then, Professor Nigam said this is the best time.

Ok.

So, he is coming to Maths Science so, we will invite him.

You present to him whatever you have done

and then, we invited him here and then,

he used to come here in the evenings and discuss with us

and then, he found that two paper that we had done in his field,

were very interesting and he said if you permit me,

I will present it in the Belgium Academy of Sciences.

On your behalf, you need not come, I will present it.

So, the two papers that I had first were presented by

the Nobel laureate in Belgium Academy of Sciences.

Who is the Nobel laureate?

Prigogine, Ilya Prigogine, Thermodynamics man.

Oh, oh. Thermo.

See he was a student of De Donder and other people

and he said Thermodynamics actually the state of any system

can be defined in three or four ways so, one is

equilibrium state where everything will be a constant

at every place here, it will be a constant

irrespective of its position and time and all that.

That is equilibrium dynamics. That was the thing

which was being taught in the schools and

colleges at that time. And then, the system that is next

is what is called as the stationary state.

Or steady state.

In steady state, the temperature everything will be depending upon

position not on time, position not on time.

So, they will be coordinates of position

and then, the other non-stationary state is one

where you have position and time coming into play.

So, if you are going to study systems,

the systems will not be always in equilibrium,

every point in the world will not have the same temperature,

same pressure etcetera.

So, people thought thatTthermodynamics

which was being taught was dead

completely and it is useless.

And so, Prigogine took up,

Prigogine and his student Glansdorff of Belgium School,

they took it up and then, they said how it can be modified

to accommodate the steady state and the non-steady state.

These were the three states and of course,

the turbulent state was beyond that scope,

it was not in the local potential area,

but turbulent state was completely different and

that was discussed by Landau, Landau and Lifshitz of Russian School.

So, this was when I presented it to him,

and we had applied it to problems in tThermodynamics

in Heat Transfer, in Boundary Layer Theory

and instability of systems Chandrasekhar’s Field.

So, these four problems I had tackled using his method.

Ok. What is called as the local potential?

The main idea is which is the system may be

completely different at different places and different times,

but when you take delta t time like Newton’s method

so, there will be a local potential for that.

So, there will be an upper one and a lower one

and so that is how they built up what is called as

the concept of a local potential.

And then, when he presented that paper,

the two paper were accepted and then,

those were the two papers which I published

along with Professor Nigam in the first stage,

beginning stages and it was quite enthusiastic work for us.

Oh, Very nice.

So, that is how we started and continued with that.

Ok. And then later on, when I completed my Ph.D.-

So, how long did it take?

It was. For you to complete?

Because I became a staff member

and I want to tell you also another thing.

When I became a staff member at that time,

we had about 60 students in a class

and the B.Tech. students were divided into 4 or 5 groups.

And simultaneously, four teachers will be teaching.

And so, I used to take one section and then,

parallely there will be-

So, you mean to say- 4 others.

Class strength was 15.

For? You said 60 students would be divided into 4.

No, not 60, 60 into 5. 300, around 300 B.Tech. students. Ok.

B.Tech. students will be in 4 or 5 batches. Ok.

And then, one will be under my charge. Ok.

And that will be correspondingly my colleagues will be taking 5.

Yeah, I understand. 4 more sections or 5 more sections

and so, we used to meet together and then,

discuss about and what what happened was

that some of the students felt that

they could come to my class because that was divided

already by the academic section and so,

they said sir, we would like to attend his section and

it was not possible.

So, what was done was,

they went to the Head of the Department So, what was done was,

they went to the Head of the Department

Professor Nigam and said sir, we would like to attend

his classes so, please reorganize.

But all the other people were also asking and then,

they say they went to the Director also at that time

and then, they said that what should be done?

Ofcourse, not that they were against the other teacher,

but they said I we like the way the he teaches

that is what they said.

And then, he said if you are interested then, come after the

school college hours and then by 5 to 6:30

I will be teaching in the Central Lecture Theatre

and all the students of B.Tech.,

most of them who were interested

will be coming and joining.

So, like that I used to give.

Ok.

So, that was one of the things which prompted me

to become a very good teacher, if possible,

that is how I started.

Most of the things I learned by teaching the students.

Every year when I teach a teach the students,

I used to teach it in a different way.

Because I know the difficulties of the students who have

done the previous examinations, they would have come and

told me sir this is how I understood, but the next

time when I teach, I will see that that doubt

will not come to anybody in the class.

So, that is how I improved my teaching.

So, I was a teacher, but also, I was a

student at the same time. Yeah, yeah

So, that is how I enjoyed teaching in IIT

and more most of the things were very simple,

the students used to ask me why is 0 by 0 indeterminate form?

Why is infinity minus infinity indeterminate form?

Why is 1 to the power of infinity?

Because 1 to the power of infinity 1 into 1 into 1

any number of times is 1 only,

but 1 to the power of infinity is indeterminated

you can’t find the value why?

So, I used to give them practical examples

of infinity minus infinity, how it is 4, how it can be 5,

infinity minus infinity can be 6, how it can be 6

so, I used to construct and give them very simple examples

that is why the students are started liking me.

Ok.

They said sir because we did not know all these things,

my teacher also did not teach me all these things,

but this I learnt by thinking about the whole thing and then,

wanted to give them some examples.

Ok.

So, that is how I did that. Ok.

So, the teaching was in a way a learning for me. Ok.

To become a very good teacher. Ok fine.

So, that is how I used to spend my time

and after that of course, M.Sc. courses are also there

and there were some Engineering students who wanted to take

some courses under me

because Professor Banerjee was teaching

Electro- Electromagnetic Waves and there,

they had the operation of delta coming in, del operator

so, they were saying sir, divergence,

curl and gradient and all this we are not able to understand,

can you please? Then, I said first I should get

the permission of Professor Banerjee

because I do not know what he is teaching you and all that,

but I must concur with him so, then they said

you contact Banerjee, Banerjee told me these are the things

which the boys, I am using for the boys.

Then, Professor Nigam said you please take a special course

for Electrical Engineering students outside the class hours

and 5 O’ clock again Central Lecture Theatre,

the Electrical students will come and I used to tell them

what is meant by the operation del when it

operates on a scalar, on a vector as a dot product,

as a cross product, I used to tell all these things

and in the process I learnt many things. Yeah, yeah

Which because I had to explain to the students in a clear way

and so, I had to deeply think about that and then,

find the applications, the AMIE that I studied was very helpful.

Because at that time, Engineering applications were

there in AMIE Engineering, Electrical Engineering applications.

So, I used to teach the students when they came for knowing

the operations of del and all that, where do you get this?

In Electrical Engineering.

In Hydrodynamics, where do you get that? For Civil Engineering.

So, that is how I used to attract the students

by giving them some practical examples

in their own fields so that is how- That is interesting.

I became a a good teacher. Ok.

And when I joined the department.

I will tell you that there were no,

you the the only slide rule was made compulsory

for the students, the Engineering student must buy the

slide rule at that time. That was 1967, 68 and all that.

And there was a big model slide rule in our department

which was under my custody.

When I joined as an STA,

I they were they asked me to demonstrate

how to use the slide rule for multiplication and all that.

And then slowly, after 2 or 3 year the slide rule became

obsolete and then, you had the CAN calculators.

And when the CAN calculators time, we had Brunsviga.

From Germany, there were in the lab Brunsviga

calculators were there and Faceit, Faceit calculators

and I was appointed there as a person in charge.

And then, the boys used to like it very much because

it has to play with the- Yes.

machines you know?

So, they used to play and come and play and then, do

Mathematics, numerical methods at that time.

So, Professor Subba Rao was also there. Ok.

So, he will give some problems and he will say

Venkatarangan will be in charge, you please go

ahead and learn from you.

So, they used to come, and do numerical methods.

And calculate and all that.

Of course, nowadays, then of course, we had

the computers coming in and after that the Brenziger,

I dont know whether they are in the here or in the workshops,

it must be a somewhere laying idle.

And all that.

So, that is how the progress in the department was there.

Starting from the slide rule up to the laptops

and desktops all those things.

That is how the development took place

and then, the teaching methods also changed

because the numerical method which was being

taught earlier was very slow, but now,

after the advent of the calculator and all that,

it was very quick so, the students also

used to do a lot of problems and then, we could also

proceed to more interesting topics in numerical methods.

That is how the syllabus also got changed

because there is a flexibility of changing the syllabus

by the department after some time in consultation

with the teacher so, we used to change the syllabus

and then, improved some new methods and all that.

So, that was how the teaching pattern also was changing

every time and I used to enjoy teaching in IIT till I retired.

Till the date I retired.

Ok.

So, I have heard a many of your students saying

how passionate you were about teaching.

Yeah, yeah And how they really wish to be a teacher like you.

Yeah, No, I I- I have heard many of your students-

No, no I I think you you are you are also- -telling me.

-student of Professor Nigam. Yes, I am also.

And everything came from him.

Yes, yes.

The way he explained. Yes.

That see the whole concept will be very small.

But the foundations that he lays,

it will lead you wow, what is the next thing,

what is the next thing.

Yes, exactly So, like that it will go.

Yes. And then finally, what he says

will be very easily understood by you. Yes.

Without your knowing, you will understand, this is so simple.

Yes.

So, that is how the whole thing will

So, when some people come to me for Mathematics even now.

I tell them very simple things, example things,

for example, complex variable, the complex integration and all that,

why complex integration, why do you do that?

Laplace transform, why do you study?

First, I tell them the need for studying something.

So, everything has to be studied because

you want to make it simpler so that you can so,

the Laplace transform does only differential equation

becomes an ordinary simultaneous equation which is very easy,

you are very easily able to solve.

So, that is how I create interest. In the students. Ok.

So, how did Professor Nigam’s training to you

towards research help you in the later years?

Yeah of course, yeah because my students also

whenever I was not like Professor Nigam,

I want to tell you very honestly,

but he was such a wonderful man,

he could have four or five research scholars too,

but I used to take only one at a time, concentrate on him

because along with my teaching work,

Yes. it was very difficult for me to go with

the two or three research scholar at a time.

But one at a time, but whenever I used to take a research scholar,

I used to consult him.

And then, I will say sir,

this is the topic I want to give him, I will always consult him.

This is the topic, would you feel that it will be good?

Then he said yes, yes, it is very good, it is very interesting,

you proceed. That is how all the research scholars that I took

I will always take his permission and then say this is

the field in which I want to work and then- Ok.

He will understand that and do that. Ok.

And the last student whom I took was Rajalakshmi by name.

You might have known her; she was the M.Sc. student here.

Ok. And Rajalakshmi worked on Adomian’s principle.

Adomian’s principle of solving equations

and Adomian because I saw in a review

that Adomian had given an idea that

this method will be working in all the fields.

Not necessarily in the field in which he has found it out.

So, I took that and then, Rajalakshmi did work on that.

And then, there was another scholar also Sivakumar,

he also did work on on this.

So, Adomian’s principle.

So, in in a way, he was a motivating factor

and also, a guiding factor even after my Ph.D., he was

guiding me in many ways. Ok, ok.

So, that is. Ok.

Excuse me, when did you get your doctorate?

72.

72. And when did you got promoted

from STA to higher level?

I dont remember,

STA that was about 6 or 7 years later.

As a Lecturer and then, Lecturer to Assistant Professor

and then, Professor I don’t.

Assistant Professor?

Assistant I dont remember the dates, but Ok,

I just want to remind you about one thing.

When Professor Indiresan. Yeah, yeah correct.

Introduced the ferric system.

Yeah.

And I remember, he wanted to have 10 periodicals.

Yeah.

I wanted to tell you that, you were in that meeting. Yeah, yeah

I I want to tell you that also, see Indiresan was a very nice

teacher, there is no doubt about it, but when he came here,

then he had, he wanted to implement some things

which were done at IIT Delhi. Delhi.

and then, we I think you were also there in the meeting

and some students were also, student representatives

were also there and then, he said that from next time onwards,

every week there will be a test for the students in Mathematics,

in Physics, in Chemistry in all the subjects every week.

This week whatever they have learnt, next week

they will have a test in that topic etcetera

like that he was telling.

Then of course, everybody was

keeping quiet because he was a new Director

and he asked what is your opinion?

Then I said sir, if you ask me frankly, I will tell you

otherwise I will keep quiet.

Then, he said you tell me,

you are supposed to be a very good teacher please say

tell me with that, then I opened out and said

sir, there are some topics in Mathematics

which cannot be taught in one week.

It might be one month to finish that.

So, with all your experience, please tell me

what is the topic that is? I said continuity.

Simple topic like continuity, the concept of this left limit,

right limit and then, the students have to understand this

and then, they have to do problems on that

and then only when they have mastered that,

you can ask them questions on that otherwise,

first day left limit, right limit and what will

they know about it?

So, there is no possibility of

having a test in some topics like that every week,

but if it is a month or so it will be good,

and I said in Chemistry also, it is the same thing,

I took was the liberty. I asked Swamy.

Someone tell you I said that.

I said sir, as far as my Chemistry knowledge

is mostly 0, but I will tell you from what I know

the halogen group and all that, there is a halogen

what is that chlorine, bromine, iodine and fluorine

and in this, fluorine is the most active one and

so bromine and iodine it goes on

and you have to study the whole group

and then only have common properties,

differentiating properties and it will take I think

quite a lot of time not one week or so,

it will be more than that and then, the students

who are there, then they said sir,

what Venkatarangan says is right.

So, let us not have weekly tests.

Let us have monthly tests.

He was very angry.

He was very angry, he was terribly angry.

And meeting was adjourned.

And then, the students-

Yeah. -apologized to me. So, they said sir,

you try to raise that hand and then,

it happened like this.

So, they so, anyway, so anyway we didn’t have

that the time periodicals. Ok.

Just usual. So, usual usual otherwise, they every day,

see every week there is a periodical means

they all the days they will be students

will be having periodicals only.

This week on portions on last week,

next week portions of the previous week and then,

final examination and there are many topics

which cannot be covered in one week.

In 3 or 4 lectures, how can you continuity,

differentiability, how will you do do that?

It is very difficult.

Even for M.Sc. students, now

who have understood all those things,

it will be very difficult.

If you ask them to teach.

It will be find difficult, you have to construct

examples and give them.

So, that is what I said. Ok.

And it is nice that you reminded me that was Ok,

then what was your reaction when the system

changed to a semester system?

No, the semester. There was a change, isn’t it?

No, semester system was good,

semester system was never bad.

No, no, I am asking there was a change

from 1 year duration programme.

And to a semester system programme. System programme.

Yeah yeah So, what was the reaction at that time?

No, I I was very happy about that, I was very happy

instead of hanging on completely throughout whatever

for for 1 year.

So, you break it into

two halfs and then, study, there is nothing wrong. Ok.

So, it was welcomed by students also. Ok.

Students also welcomed, and I also welcomed that. Ok.

So, that is quite interesting and so. So, then,

did you stay in the campus sir or?

No, I was staying in the campus only. Ok.

So, what changes do you find in the campus now?

Now of course, it has become slightly crowded

that is what I find, there are lot of buildings

which were not there earlier.

So, at that time how was it?

No, the multi-storeyed buildings

which have come up on this side when I came now, today.

This side I saw some multi storeyed buildings.

They were not there.

And it was quite calm,

and we used to enjoy the open-air theatre picture.

Because at that time, TV’s were not there,

TV programmes were not there.

And if he remembered, we used to enjoy

all the programmes which were given in open-air theatre.

And the college, the hostel functions.

The hostel functions will always be conducted here.

And the hostels will come here and then,

they will give a general entertainment,

we used to go there and sit, mimicries will be there.

Very nice, interesting programmes by all students.

And the students were very much talented I

of course, now also they might be talented,

but still, we were able to appreciate the talents

of all those people at that time.

Because we never had TV or anything,

only this was a recreation which was very nice.

And many people from my relative’s houses,

they used to come here on Saturday

and then, come for the programmes here.

So, they used to enjoy very nicely all the programmes.

Ok.

That was very nice.

And then, another thing also happened

in the mean while we had

Pakistan war or China war I dont remember

and then, 3 year B.Tech. course was introduced,

you remember that 3 year B.Tech.?

Yeah. B.Tech. course, a special special.

For I think this was for 3 or 4 years,

it was continuing and then, we had good experience

with many people who were coming from Army, Air Force,

there used to be a number of people who used

to come there, I used to teach them also. Ok.

Mathematics and so, that was very interesting thing also,

along with the 5 year which became 4 year later.

And then in between, there were 3 year.

Ok.

3 years course, for about 3 or 4 years it was there.

Very nice programmes.

So, those those students must have completed

their undergraduate programme

and. Yeah and then and then comes here.

Yeah, and then come here.

So, graduate B.A., graduates they will be coming and so. yeah

Or science graduates.

Some people were deputed

by the Army, Navy and Air Force. Ok.

They were also here.

They and they had lot of interest also.

Because they have to go back and join the

parent department and all that.

That's why they used to take lot of interest doctor,

professor one was Kala by name,

you I remember most of their names.

So, there were some girl students also who came.

And we enjoyed teaching those

three that was a separate course for them.

So, the syllabus was different and very nice,

interesting courses we had.

So, apart from teaching

and research, have you been a warden of a hostel

or some sports? Oh, no, no I was not ah, but there was

some special programme

for the we can’t call it as

SC/ST, we should not call it now as a SC/ST

special course was there, you remember that?

Sir, scheduled caste.

In B.Tech. in- Preparatory course.

B.Tech. Preparatory course

No, those students who failed in the entrance examination.

And were Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe candidates,

they will have special coaching by the IIT,

those who have not a were not able to get into IIT,

they were called, given scholarships and then, they were

trained here in our institute, institute teachers

used to teach them and then, they will appear for the

entrance exam the next year. Ok.

And then, they will get qualified and come in

so. That was only in Professor Indiresan's time.

That was Indiresan and in and in fact,

I heard that Indiresan was very much upset by that programme.

Yeah. And I you must have heard about it.

It was only in his time that

some where the students were given

that B- B.Sc., Tech or something B.Sc. arts. Yeah, yeah.

yeah, yeah something like that.

So, he was against it completely,

but anyway because of force of circumstances,

he is a very principled man, Professor Indiresan

though in spite of my quarrelling with him,

but still I appreciated him because I was deputed

to Germany Germany and I was here to Peradeniya University,

Peradeniya University for teaching for 6 months.

I was there in Peradeniya University.

And along with me some Professor Venkateshaiah

and Sri Ramalu, all those people there were there

and from Chemistry Department, who was there

I don’t remember, Chemistry nobody came.

Only for Mathematics, Electrical Engineering, and

Bhattacharya also along with the next batch,

he went to some 3 or 4 people were deputed

from our department for the teaching

So, first I was deputed, they said first you send

some good teacher and then, you can continue

for three more semester so, first semester I went there.

And I taught in the Peradeniya University.

Ok. For the students there that was.

So, you said you you were you graduated as

the first batch of M.Sc. students from this institute. Yeah, yeah correct.

So, who were all the faculty members

at that time apart from Professor S. D. Nigam

and Professor S. Srinivasan? D. S. Subramanyam was

one of the faculty, D. S. Subramanyam.

He-he was one of the best teachers.

He was one of the best teachers though many people

do not like him because he never will look upon

look towards the students and then,

he will go on to narrating whatever he wants to say,

teaching them, but only thing is those who are in the

first four or five seats, they will be able to hear him

and the others at the back they never used to hear him,

but he was one of the best teachers that I could do.

In pure Mathematic, he was the best in our department.

And then, S. K. Srinivasan was there.

S. K. Srinivasan at that time, we had an understanding

with people in Matscience.

Professor Alladi Ramakrishnan was the chief at that time

there and Vasudevan was there,

and S. K. Srinivasan is the student of Alladi.

And so, we used to go to Matscience for seminars

and they will come and give seminar in our HSB 237.

Every week there will be one seminar.

So, one Friday, we will have here, one Friday, we will have in-

Ok. So, there were many people who were there,

from our department, there were two people who had joined there

by name Sridhar, who was an M.Sc. student here,

he did his Ph.D. there. Ok.

And then, Sunder, by Sunder is another name

and there was a third student of ours

another Sunder by name

and he is also there, Sunder was there and there was

one more person, they were all top-ranking students here

in Mathematics and they were taken by-

Keshavan.

Keshavan also. Keshavan, Keshavan right, I forgot

Keshavan French yes. Yes.

He was in France for sometimes,

Keshavan. Yes.

Keshavan is the other student,

excellent students, very brilliant students.

Keshavan’s classmate is the other person. Yes.

Sunder.

Sunder I don't know whether he is continuing here or not.

But Keshavan, Sunder, they were all there.

They were so, we had a very good understanding,

we used to go and give that is how I got to Prigogine.

When he came there.

Then Professor Nigam brought him

here and then, he presented my paper. Ok.

So, it was very nice.

Associate and then, we had

associated with the AC College of Technology also.

So, the Mathematics G. N. Ramachandran was there.

G. N. Ramachandran was there and some of his students,

he they used to come and learn Mathematics from

our department so, I used to help them.

So, he G. N. Ramachandran will tell you can help

get the help from these people.

And there was some Electric Engineering

staff member there who were

very much interested in coming and learning something

from our Mathematics Department say they used to

come here and learn and at that time,

when I wanted to ah, when I complete my Ph.D.,

there was no computer here, big computer system here

so, I went to Guindy Engineering College and then,

they used to help me at that time and then, AC college,

both the colleges I used to go and get the time in their computer

and so, there was a quite lot of understanding

between all the three colleges and then, the institute.

Of Mathematical Sciences also at that time.

Professor Vasudevan was there.

You might have heard about him. Yes.

very well-known figure Vasudevan,

Alladi's student and a colleague of him. Yes.

and S. K. Srinivasan’s colleague.

And I worked on his paper.

It was a dissertation at that time, M.Sc.

we had a dissertation also so, I was asked to go to

Professor Vasudevan and then, because there was

Quantum Mechanics which was being taught

in our department by S. K. Srinivasan

so, he said you go, and I worked on Yukawa potential.

Which was Vasudevan’s topic and I in in fact, it was

and I think most of the things were taken from his book,

Vasudevan’s book on Yukawa potential

and he was the external examiner for me.

When for M.Sc. he. Ok.

was there. Ok.

At that time.

So, we used to and there was lot of

other activities also which were happening at that time.

Which I don’t think now it is happening;

Professor Valluri was there.

Professor Valluri was there and he

he was the fracture mechanics man,

fracture mechanics and he used to give talks

and all the staff members were invited for that.

And we used to go there, it was a series of

talks about 10 lectures were there.

And similarly, in Physics Department,

Ramaseshan, Professor Ramaseshan,

who is related to C. V. Raman,

he he used to give talk in the Civil Engineering Department,

and we also used to go and attend.

And Professor Vasudevan of- Metallurgy.

Metallurgy; Metallurgy Department and his brother,

his brother was in Physics Department.

R. Srinivasan. R- R. Srinivasan, R. Srinivasan gave

talks on helium atom, hydrogen and helium atom

and at that time, Professor S. K. was giving a

a lecture to us on Quantum Mechanics

so, all the staff members used to attend,

and we used to go and attend there

and so, we are all students of R. Srinivasan also

at that time, they used to invite all the people

and then, we will go there.

And and another surprising thing which now is not happening

is one of the things at that time;

modern Physics was a topic for

M.Sc. Mathematics students.

I don’t remember; I dont think you remember that

Professor Ramji Rao took the class,

Professor S. Srinivasan, he took classes for us

on Modern Physics on. Modern Physics.

completely Modern Physics they were teaching

and so, we had we used to come to the laboratory also.

So, we used to have laboratory classes also

and we used to perform experiments along with

B.Tech. students, there were some separate place for us

and so, they were all C. K. Narayanswamy was in charge

for us, Professor C. K. Narayanswamy,

he was in charge of us and we used to

like enjoy it very much.

Professor Ramabhadran was there,

Ramabhadran was also there.

So, we used to enjoy and and particularly,

Ramji Rao’s, Professor Ramji Rao’s classes,

Ramji Rao was from Physics,

he used to teach Physics for us

and so, we used to enjoy and then, Quantum Mechanics.

Quantum mechanics was

taught by Srinivasan there in Physics Department

and by S. K. Srinivasan in Mathematics Department.

So, we used to attend the S. K. Srinivasan’s class

and then, Physics students will say

sir, his classes are very good.

R. Srinivasan class, you come attend

so, we will attend his classes also.

So, we used to of course, with his permission,

we used to go there and sit, and learn from Srinivasan.

He was one of the best teacher, R. Srinivasan is

considered to be he was the Deputy Director also.

Yeah. For some time of our institute, one of the best

teachers next to Professor Nigam, they are all in the same line

At that time, there were time rates M. V. C. Sastri

was in your department and Nigam from our department

and Rama- Vijaya Ramachandran in Physics

No, no Physics, Physics Physics was Rama.

Ramseshan, Rama Sastry.

Rama Sastry, Rama Sastry was there,

all the three they used to be

very friendly and your M. V. C. Sastri used to say

in the same wing as we were in the beginning stages,

M. V. C. Sastri lab was, catalyst lab was

in the second floor of our department where our

HOD’s office is there. Ok.

Just on the other side,

Professor M. V. C. Sastri, we used to meet him every day,

every day we used to meet him.

And then, we enjoyed.

So, all the three.

So, we had connections,

inter connections and all that.

So, what about the faculty members who joined

later say in the years of 80. Later I don’t have much of

80’s to 90's. Idea about them.

before you retired in the Department of Mathematics.

Because now, I you know now 20 years have passed

since I retired. Yeah.

I think 20; 20 years I have completed.

97 I retired. 97.

97. So, when I joined,

you were there, Yeah, yeah, that time I retired.

I retired at that time. Ok.

So, I don't know the present I except

Kulkarni. I think Kulkarni is also retiring you know. Retiring yeah.

Kulkarni is shortly retiring, and the

P. V. Subramanium has retired already.

Most of them have retired.

And only one or two whom I know Kulkarni is retiring

and I don't know Thamban Nair?

He is there. He is there.

Yeah. He is there.

So, some two or three people,

but I don’t have much of contact with them.

Ok alright so.

When did you become Professor?

Professor I was in 90. 97?

97. No not 97,

94 or 90.

You retired in 97.

Yeah, yeah,

90; 97 September I retired.

Yeah. But there was a rule that you should,

you can go on till the next academic year.

That is alright that is. That is how 90.

That is not counted. So, 94 or so, 94 or 93,

I don't remember the date.

I was an Associate Professor also.

See we had Assistant Professor,

Associate Professor, Professor like that.

I see.

So, myself and Raghav Rao came through all the steps

not jumping and all that STA, Lecturer, Assistant Professor,

Associate Professor, Professor so, like that all the.

So, you have been engaging all the time in teaching,

what were your hobbies then?

Hobbies of course, I never had I used to enjoy teaching only.

Teaching.

Yeah, yeah even now, I enjoy teaching.

Ok.

Even now, some students come to me from schools

of course, I teach them I say whenever I am here,

you can come, and get my help.

So, those who are known to me and near my houses,

they come and learn for 11th standard or 12th standard

Mathematics and some Engineering College students also come

and asking some doubts about matrices, determinants all these.

So, you whenever I have a free time, I

call them and then, I help them whatever doubts they have.

Ok. I help them.

Ok ok. Where you involved in I mean

teaching students for JEE?

Yeah, yeah,

it was there I will tell you.

See in the beginning

when we were in the campus so, at that time,

people from the campus they had our Director’s sons,

many of our Director’s sons, they used to come to me

and to get a like that and then, there were some other

staff members who were interested and saying sir, we will.

So, at that time, myself, Narayanan and Ramabhadran,

we were asked to help the students,

but the at that time, we had to get the special permission

from the Director because outside we cannot go and teach

in fact, there was one Brilliant Tutorials

you might have heard about that.

Brilliant Tutorials person came Taanu came here,

when I was a teacher here and then, he said

why don’t you come and teach me,

I will give you four times the pay that they are giving you.

I said I don’t want four times your pay and all that,

I don’t want to come there and teach.

Then I-I said if you want any help

go and get the permission of the Director,

Director has to give the permission, then only I can come.

So, he he knew that when he comes to the Director,

Director will not permit so, he went away,

but then, there were some staff members in the institute

whose children and whose relatives children

they were interested in coming and learning

from me and Narayanan and Ramabhadran. Ramabhadran

because there was a of course, I did not want to

go into this earlier, there was a questionnaire by Pandalai

when he was the director and he had asked the students

without mentioning to other staff members,

who are the best teachers in the departments?

So, in each department, each one was selected by the students,

by the the students gave their names and

my name was in the Physics.

Maths Department. Means Mathematics Department,

Ramabhadran's name was in Physics Department

and Professor Narayan’s name was

in the Chemistry Department.

So, I-I know the students

who gave because they were all very good students of mine

in B.Tech. and so, when they gave that name,

then there were he said that by

getting the approval of the senate,

we will present them with some memento and all that

so, that was circulated.

And then, there was a furor because

people said without asking anybody,

how did you ask the students to give

and then only the evaluation of teachers came up

so, then he said if you dont like that

so, let it be on record that these are the

three best teachers, let it be there,

I will not give them any token or anything like that

or presentation memento.

Then, the the other

the questionnaire came and then, there you

we were asked to give to the students and

get their response and all that that is how

it went on and at that time also,

myself, Ramabhadran see we were we were

teaching not for the sake of anything;

it was only because of pleasure in teaching.

And so, the staff member all of them they said that

they should be permitted to take classes at least for us

and Professor Pandalai's son was my student also,

he was there and he used to come and study with me,

many of the students the Kuriacose daughter

and your Rajaram, Rajaram’s two sons who were in America,

they came to me and they were learning

from me for JEE, they were coming.

And other some some staff members

here who were Mechanics and all that their sons used to

come and so, I was teaching them free,

but then, when they said that you should not be stopped,

then they were we said go and ask the Director because

there people are saying that we should not take.

So, the Director said we give permission to the three

to teach, but only thing is they should not go for setting

of question paper or correction of JEE examinations.

That's what the Director gave a ruling.

So, of that time, we started helping again

so, people knew about that.

So, that was how it was stopped and started again.

It was there.

So, what about your children,

what are they doing? Yeah, my son is a student of

your husband Vivekananda College, he did his B.Sc.

and he joined IIT for Mathematics and he got

the Governor’s medal in the year 92,

he passed out of M.Sc. Mathematics; M.Sc. Mathematics

and he is now the Executive Director

of Morgan Stanley in United States of America in New York.

So, from 92, he has shifted there, and he got his Ph.D.

from New York University and he is working on

Financial Management now.

Ok.

Near the time square in New York,

he is there as the Executive Director.

Nice. And my daughter is a Mathematics graduate

from Queen Mary’s College.

And she is the university first in Mathematics.

In that in the University of Madras

and she got all five centums in the subjects

complete and that is the university, first rank all through.

Oh very nice.

All the five subjects in the final year, she got centum.

Ok. In the Mathematics and she is

now a freelancer in Mathematical training.

And she is working in Bombay,

going to different places in the world, she is there,

and she is married to you you must be know him

there was a STA in a ; there was a STA Senior

Technical Assistant in Electrical Engineering Department

and his son is Kothandaraman Ok.

I have forgotten his name; he is no more;

he is no more he was.

So, so all the students of my and my grandson,

he is now with Sunder Pichai in Google.

Ok.

Google.

He has got his doctorate in Mathematics.

In Cornell University Ithaca.

Ithaca Cornell University,

he is there and. Very nice.