Sir, we understand

you have been associated with IIT Madras,

practically throughout your life.

Please tell us about the different roles you have had.

Well, I started off as a campus kid,

growing up in the campus.

Then, did my BTech here.

So, I studied in this Vanavani School

on campus, from my kindergarten

to my 2nd class,

KV IIT from 3rd to 12th -

and, I was the first 10+2 batch student.

And then, BTech at IIT Madras

from 1979 to 1984,

and then, as a faculty member here, since '91.

Sir, can you give us the dates

when you were a campus resident,

when you studied in the institute,

and when you joined the faculty?

Yeah, as I just told you,

I have been in the campus,

since, I think, my dad was a faculty member

in the Chemical Engineering department here.

So, I have been here

since, I think, early 1963,

when I was less than a year old,

when we moved in here.

And, as I told you, I studied in the various schools,

and been a student from '79 to '84,

and a faculty since '91, yeah.

Sir, do you know of any others

who have had such an extended association with the institute?

Yeah, there are few other,

persons...who are, probably

now, little junior to me now. There is,

for example, Srikanth,

in Engineering Design department,

who again, who grow up in the campus,

and then, did his BTech here,

went abroad, came back.

Then, Dr. Anirudhan Sankaran,

in Electrical Engineering department.

He is another guy who were...

but they are all junior to me about 6 - 7 years,

yeah. Okay.

Plus, I think there are a few more

who are now coming in, yeah.

But, I guess, right now, I am the

longest resident on campus.

What was it like to live on the campus

during your school days?

Oh, it was lot of fun. Lot of...

lot of kids,

because, those were the early days

of the formation of IIT,

lot of young faculty had joined.

So, there were lot of kids of my age group

growing up in the campus.

And, most of these kids, those days,

almost everyone

went to either Vanavani school or KV IIT.

Unlike now, where

quite a few faculty kids

are going to schools outside.

And,

all of us were great friends.

You know, the kinds of activities

we had those days,

playing gilli danda, marbles, tops;

we had seasonal games,

we used to climb the jamun trees

to pluck jamuns.

I don’t think the kids today do

all those things. Yeah.

So, and,

in those days, lot of kids from KV,

especially on campus, would get into IIT.

Every year about

10 to 12 students got into IIT.

Whereas,

now, it is barely 1 or 2 a year.

So, there was...and

the KV on the campus, was rated

one of the best schools in the country and so on.

So, it was real fun

growing up on campus.

Sir, where did you do your post graduate studies

and did you work outside IIT Madras?

Yeah, well after finishing my BTech,

I had gone to Clemson University in South Carolina in USA,

did my master's and PhD there,

in the Civil Engineering department,

specializing in the area of

construction engineering and project management.

But, the moment I finished my PhD,

When I went to US,

those days, many more students went to US.

That was the time when almost 70,

60 to 70 percent of students, immediately

after their BTech went to US for the higher studies,

which is much lower now. Yeah.

And,

and most people didn’t come back.

And, I had decided when I went,

that I was going to come back.

So, after I finished my PhD;

I defended my PhD. 1 week later,

I took the flight and came back to India.

And then, joined IIT Madras.

So, I did not work,

I taught courses there and so on,

but not as the full time faculty.

Sir, why did you choose to work in IIT Madras?

Well, as I told you,

I had lot of attachment to IIT Madras,

but more importantly, IIT Madras has

you know, when I finished my BTech,

I didn’t think I was going to become an academic.

But, once I started doing my master's

and got involved in research,

I felt that,

that’s something that is interesting, let me do a PhD,

and then evaluate whether

really I wanted to get into academics

or get into consulting or so on.

But, as I was doing my PhD,

I felt I was comfortable with the teaching kind of

activities and the research

and I felt that I had...

that academics was something that I was

I was getting interested in.

And, I basically

went for an area of construction engineering

and project management

which very few people, those days, would go.

For example, in the Civil Engineering department,

the most popular areas where students went

for their master's was structural engineering. Yeah, yeah.

Or geotechnical engineering,

and few people for transportation engineering.

So, I was probably one of the first persons

to go into this area

because, at those days,

I was looking at, doing something

different from what everyone was doing.

And, this area looked as an area

that had potential and lot of growth opportunity,

I mean, lot of potential for

future activities.

So, I chose that area

and IIT Madras, those days

in India, there were very few institutes

offering construction engineering management.

The only other IIT that was offering a programme

related to this was the IIT Delhi.

And, we had a great visionary

head of the department at that time

in the Civil Engineering department,

Professor C. S. Krishnamoorthy.

And so, the civil engineering department at IIT Madras,

it's got 5 divisions.

And those days, it was the building technology,

structural engineering, geotechnical engineering,

transportation engineering

and hydraulic and water resources.

The building technology group was

comparatively weaker compared to the other section divisions.

So, he had looked at

what needs to be done

to give this group a boost,

and he identified construction engineering and management

as one of the possible areas

that probably we need to give a boost...

we need to get

going in this group,

to take it to a different level.

So, that’s when

I was also looking at coming back to India,

and Professor C. S. Krishnamoorthy

knew that I was interested.

So, he got in touch with me,

and so, I came back.

I didn’t have an offer in hand

when I came here, but,

but, I knew, if I don’t get here,

I will get in IIT Delhi.

So, I just took the risk

and came back.

And then, came and gave my presentation here,

and immediately they made me an offer

as a visiting faculty in the area

of...and then we grew that area.

And today, I can proudly say that

the construction engineering management programme at IIT Madras

is the top program in the country,

the leadership programme

which everyone tries to emulate.

And, our students are the people

who are setting up construction programmes at...

now running the Delhi programme,

at IIT Bombay, IIT Guwahati,

and other places.

So, so, that’s the reason why,

I somehow felt there was,

here is a good opportunity,

and Chennai, always is my home base,

so, just got back.

Sir, was the civil engineering department in IIT Madras,

is the best in India at the moment.

Right. Was this always the case or?

Yeah, it was always quite strong.

Early days, the structural engineering group

was very strong. They had fantastic facilities,

among the other groups.

But, I think, we have, all civil engineering departments

has been fortunate to have visionary leadership,

and they grew the other areas

like transportation engineering.

For example, we have probably

got the biggest group in the country.

Building technology and construction management group

has become very strong.

Those days, we didn’t have

environmental engineering as the separate thing. Now, Yeah.

we have environmental and hydraulics.

So, we have been transforming

and growing all the other areas.

And, today, I think,

we are one of the most comprehensive

civil engineering departments in the country

and I think, we are very proud of that.

Sir, do you think that other departments

should try to emulate the vision

civil engineering department takes?

Well, I think, each department works

in a different way.

I think, one of the big...other big,

I wouldn’t say big,

the major advantage

cCivil Engineering department had

is, it has worked as a cohesive department.

You can, if you when you talk to

the administrators of the institute,

that is the directors,

the deans or...they have, they find that,

Civil Engineering department is one department

where things, they don’t have to worry too much about

whether the systems will work and so on.

And, the faculty have worked as a group;

very cohesive department,

and that helped a lot.

For example, Civil Engineering department

is the first department of the institute

where they have an annual retreat

where all the faculty members go away

to a hill resort or so, along with families

and of course, the families are having fun.

But, the faculty working,

doing visioning, the strategy planning,

where do we go, and...

creates a lot of bonding

among the faculty members.

So, this has been a big advantage

of the Civil Engineering department,

where they work as a team

and also, we have a very strong people.

So, these are some of the things

I think, the other departments can,

you know, take some ideas

and grow.

Sir, how has the civil engineering curriculum

changed since you have joined?

What are the factors leading to this change?

See, the civil engineering curriculum,

in terms of the BTech programme,

I wouldn’t say, the

the number of grades have come down,

of course, which is across the institute.

This is not specific to Civil Engineering department,

but, the basic civil engineering curriculum

has not changed that much drastically.

In the sense that,

when you did a 5 year programme,

we did structural analysis;

we had 2 courses of structural analysis.

But now, you have only one core course

and you have another one as an elective.

So, to because it has become a 4 year programme,

and the number of credits

also have been brought down a little bit,

certain courses had to be, sort of,

you know, put together,

brought into one single course in the

the curriculum and so on.

Other than that, the core essence

of civil engineering,

I don’t think has changed much.

But then, over the years,

we have brought in a number of new programmes,

especially at the postgraduate level.

The dual degree programme

in infrastructural engineering,

which has been quite successful.

You know, alumni are quite...our students

are quite sought after

by, especially, lot of these big transactional

advisories like PWC and so on,

for the kind of training

they have as core civil engineers

and infrastructure related courses

like infrastructure planning,

infrastructure finance

and these kind of courses.

Then, we have had the,

one of the most successful programmes,

with which I have been very closely associated with,

is the user oriented MTech programme.

So, the most successful

user oriented MTech programme in IIT Madras, and

this is run from the Civil Engineering department,

from, actually, my group,

which is building technology

and construction management group,

on the LNT sponsored

user oriented programme on

construction technology and management. Yeah.

Right, where we bring in students with civil,

mechanical, electrical engineering background,

we take students.

They take courses across 6 departments,

and it is...

So, that’s a, you know, that’s...

those are the kinds of

user oriented programmes the institute started.

You know, we had some of them earlier,

but in the '90s,

1990s - late 1990s

and so on, the institute started

promoting them.

And, the one in our group

is now running for 19 years,

where LNT sponsors, every year

about 30 students.

They want to sponsor more,

but we have said no,

because we want to maintain the quality. Okay.

So, and then, the

the building technology

and construction management programme

that I, as I told you,

I associated with, has transformed itself

from being just a building technology programme

to building technology

and construction management programme.

And, introduced a number of new courses.

It keeps evolving

over with the newer

trends and research and so on.

And, the PhD programme

has grown considerably,

we have many more PhD students now and so on.

Sir, who were your teachers

in the Civil Engineering department?

Well, when I was a student, we had lot of...we had

some of the senior teachers there. Prof. P. S. Rao,

who was then academic, Dean academic. Courses also,

he taught us concrete structures.

Prof. C. S. Krishnamoorthy, then Prof. L. N. Ramamurthy.

I am talking about the structural faculty right now.

Prof. Aravindan, Prof. Paramasivam and so on, many of them.

And then, in hydraulics we had Prof. Suresh Rao,

Prof. Elango, Prof. Thandaveswara. Geotechnical we had

Prof. Sankaran, Prof. Narasimha Rao, Professor...my class,

these are the people who taught my class.

N. R. Krishnaswamy in geotechnical. Transportation we had

Prof. Victor those days, then building technology we had

Prof. T. P. Ganesan and so on.

Quite a lot of them were excellent teachers.

And, we were very fortunate to have them as teachers, yeah.

Sir, what are some major changes you have noted in the institute

over the years, in the campus, the facilities available and also

the attitude of the students?

Okay. The campus has evolved over the years,

for example, when I was a student here,

it was 2500 students in the campus,

now, it is 8500 plus. So, the size of the campus has grown.

I mean, the area has not grown,

but the students' strength has grown.

So, this has required considerable change in the way

we accommodate our students,

the way we run our hostels, the way we run our campus.

When I was a student, each hostel...

I was staying in Narmada hostel,

and each hostel had about, I think, 196 students,

and each hostel had its own mess, right, and

and, the mess was run by the students,

and the warden was very much involved,

the warden also had to...But then, over the years,

this model was not sustainable, right.

So, they got rid of all the individual hostel messes.

Now, we have a common Himalaya

dining facility and a few other facilities.

The tower hostels have come up now.

And now, everything is going vertical.

And, the buildings that were built,

actually, the buildings that were initially built

at in the campus, if you see BSB, MSB, HSB,

even the hostels, were all actually, if you really look at it,

properly oriented, properly constructed and functionally efficient.

No fancy stuff, but they served their purpose very well.

But, with the increase in the number of departments,

number of departments also have grown,

lot more departments have come in

from the time I was a student, if you see now,

we have Department Management Studies,

Engineering Design, Ocean Engineering was a centre

then, now, it has become a department and then Biotechnology,

right, all these departments have come in recently.

And, with the growth in research,

the lab requirements have grown considerably.

So, all this is putting a lot of,

the campus is quite stressed in terms of

accommodating these requirements.

So, now, the plan is to be make everything vertical.

And, I was involved in, as Chairman, Engineering Unit,

I was involved in the new master plan of the campus,

and so the idea is to remove, for example,

the low rise laboratories.

If you take the Chemical Engineering Laboratory,

or the, up to the Environmental and Water Resource Laboratory,

that whole build building, that whole set of labs,

we want to demolish them and go vertical, right.

And so, it's an evolving process, the campus is now

65 plus years old. So, with the growth,

we are having to adapt all those things.

So, that way the campus has changed quite a bit.

When I was a student, there was not a single

eating place on campus. There was used to be one

small place called Knick Knack, that was the only place,

where the current, all that area has been demolished,

where the current Economic Academic complex is coming.

Okay. If the students wanted a chai,

they had to go to Taramani, to the

Nair kada, one of those places.

So, there are a lot more eating places, lot more

places where the students can get together and so on.

Another thing, big change in life I am seeing is, the students,

Saturday night movie used to be a major occasion,

where all the students went.

Everyone brought the pillows and it used to be packed,

but now, when I go to OAT, I see the students gallery section

is almost empty. Right?

Now, people have access to, whether legal or pirated or whatever, to

songs, movies everything and they watch

individually in their rooms. So, the social, I think,

interaction has come down a little bit

compared to what it was those days.

Because, the numbers was small

and also the technology was not there for,

for you to individually do things.

So, you tended to do lot of things together with other students

and so on. So, that is the big change.

The other big change, I would say is,

the institute is much more research focused now.

Okay. Right.

Those days, the research programmes were taking off,

we had people who were very good teachers

and the research, but now, you know,

the kinds of grants we bring in,

the kinds of focus that we have in research,

is much higher. So, these are some of the changes

I see on campus.

Sir, you were saying that, the labs in that area

the Chemical Engineering and all that,

you want to make it to high rise building.

So, in the interim time is there a plan for the functioning of the labs?

Yeah, it is not, the whole idea is not to

demolish the whole section at one shot,

Okay. It will be done in phases.

So, the alternate arrangements

have to be made temporarily

to house those facilities.

So, this is over next twenty years or so, not immediately, yeah.

Sir, would it be correct to state that the

Civil Engineering department is more focused on

consultancy projects than on research?

I don’t completely agree with that,

of course, we, Civil Engineering department

is one of the leading departments that

does consultancy along with the Ocean Engineering

and our Electrical Engineering to some extent.

But, I think, the fact that,

we are one of the few departments in the whole country

that is ranked in the top 50 departments in the world,

you don’t get that kind of recognition

if you are just doing consultancy, right?

So, we are obviously, we are also doing research,

we are publishing and so on.

So, if you say relatively, the kind of consultancy

we do, yes, there is a demand from the country,

from the industry, from the user organizations and

we are one of the thing...

But, I don’t think, it is at the cost of doing research.

Maybe, we should do more research, yeah, could be,

but, its not that we have neglected that part of it.

Sir, in the early years of the institute,

there was a very strong workshop

component in the curriculum.

But, this component didn’t include practical civil engineering,

like, what is the reason for this?

See, actually, the workshop, the way workshop

has been taught at IIT Madras has gone through

quite considerable transformation. I think, in the early days,

when the IIT started with the German assistance

and German aid, I remember as kid,

there used to be lot of Germans on the campus,

staying on campus and so on.

And, those days, I think, the Germans felt,

unlike the kids in Europe and so on,

who have lot of hands on experience, do things,

do it yourself kind of

experience, the kids in India lacked that.

So, they felt that doing, they needed this workshop training

to let their hands pick up some skills, understand the

basic requirements, whether its carpentry or fitting

or welding or smithing or machining and so on.

So, till the batch before me,

or maybe, one batch before that,

workshop used to be taught for the whole day, for 1 week continuously,

so, the students would go morning to evening,

1 full week, workshop in the first year.

The second week would be classes,

then workshop, classes. I think, it was my batch

where they changed it to 2 afternoons a week.

So, the emphasis there, was on developing those skills,

which were general requirements.

Civil engineering, by then, I think,

IITs have recognized, even early days.

For example, even in IIT Madras,

I was just speaking to an alumnus,

who did his Metallurgy here, and graduated in '73,

before I came to this meeting and he said,

they had to do civil engineering drawing

when he was...But then, all that has

changed in the curriculum.

So, I don’t think real...surveying

for example, if you talk to people

who have done their BE's or BTech's

in the '50s and '60s, civil engineering surveying

was compulsory for all of them.

Whether you did Mechanical or

Electrical and so on, drawing was compulsory.

But then, as the other areas grew,

they felt that this was not required.

So, I don’t think the fact that it was not there,

is something to be concerned about

for the other branches.

Sir, can you tell us about

some of the interesting or satisfying

research or consultancy projects that you have led?

Yeah, one of the areas that,

at least, I personally worked on my PhD,

along with my students, is the area of, recently, the area of

public-private partnerships. You know, in India we are,

our infrastructure development, really, the country started focusing

on infrastructure development, whether it is the roads,

ports, airports, power in the '90s, especially late '90s.

And, they were looking at various models

and how do we deliver these projects.

And, one of the models that was looked at is PPP,

is Public-Private Partnerships

and there are various variants to that.

So, we had done research on risk associated with PPPs,

how do you model the risk,

identification of risk, model the risk,

how do you address the risk from

various as angles, whether it is the contractual

part of theirs or whether it is a financial aspect of it.

So, that’s one area that our group still works,

along with my colleague Ashwin Mahalingam,

and all of us, still work in this area of project deliveries

through various models. The other

area, your Civil Engineering department

has always worked very closely with industry.

You know, we have had long

association with industry and similarly, our group,

our building technology and construction management group

has been very active with industry.

One initiative that we have,

over in the last 5 - 6 years,

quite aggressively worked on is on Lean construction practices,

bringing in lot of Lean manufacturing

ideas into construction. Our estimate is that,

in any typical construction project, there is anywhere

between 25 to 30 percent wastage.

So, how do we identify this wastage, how do we,

you know, overcome these inefficiencies in projects?

So, we have been at the forefront in the country

in bringing this Lean construction practices into the country.

My colleagues have been in the forefront

in bringing in the new way of designing projects and

delivery of projects called the BIM -

Building Information Modeling systems.

And, of late, I have also now started working on,

we have been looking at sustainable construction.

So, I have been looking at CND Waste -

Construction Demolition Waste. So,

you know, lot of buildings get demolished,

where do you throw,

what do you do with the demolished stuff?

Right now, they just go and throw it in

in some canal or some ones backyard or in some lake

and it, and part of the reasons for Chennai floods is

this problem. And, we feel, lot of it can be recycled,

instead of just throwing it,

On one side, we are demolishing mountains

to get aggregates to make concrete;

the other side is, we are creating

these huge mountains of landfills and thrash.

So, for example, recently we just

did the Chennai city's CND Waste management plan.

We have found that, almost 35 to 40 percent of the solid waste

generated in a city is CND Waste,

and that’s not recognized by people or

it is not even recognized by the policymakers.

So, we are now developing models for estimating this.

So, these are some of the areas that have

been quite satisfying in terms of

bringing about the change. Right now, for example,

now, I am, since I am involved in Tirupati town,

we are developing the CND

Waste management plan for Tirupati.

So, this was our thing. In addition to that, we have been

doing a number of other things.

I am just giving you some examples.

Yes. Yeah.

Sir, how do you plan to bring about awareness

to the policy makers about the sheer magnitude of this waste?

Yeah, so we have been running a number of workshops,

for example. In the last 5 - 6 years,

I have been involved in about 4 to 5 workshops -

sensitization workshops, starting from Delhi,

for the policy makers there, in Chennai,

Hyderabad and so on.

And now, if you take...and then, there is a group of us

who have been working on this.

And then, I have got involved in convincing Chennai Corporation

that they need to address this and

worked out the their,

what we call DPR - Detailed Project Report.

And, how to collect this,

how do you transport it,

how do you process it,

how do you recycle it and so on.

So, and then, one of the problems we found

is, even if I recycle the material, if I take concrete, crush it

get the aggregate, the Indian code, BIS code

doesn't permit to use or did not explicitly permit,

though it didn’t bar it, of use of CND waste in concrete.

So now, the code has been changed.

Okay. To...so that it can be used.

So, these are the things you need to work.

So, one thing is to do research and just publish papers;

the other thing is to take it further and

work with the policy makers

and others to make changes.

Another very interesting technology

that we have, this is where I think

we at IIT Madras have really done successfully,

is the GFRG technology-

Glass Fibre Reinforce Gypsum technology.

Where again, its a sustainable.

So, all these we are looking at,

how do we make sustainable practices.

So, gypsum is a raw material from

lot of chemical industry, especially the fertilizer industry,

and there are millions of tons of this lying around.

So, what we are saying is, use that, make panels.

So, the technology comes from an Australian technology.

But, that technology,

our colleagues here, Prof. Devdas Menon

and Prof. Meher Prasad,

they have taken the technology much further.

In Australia,

they had only envisaged

it use as wall panels.

Now, they modified, they changed it as wall...

I mean, flooring, steps

and also brought about design methodologies

to go do multistory

earthquake resistant structures.

We didn’t stop with just...

about four five PhD students

have worked on this,

But then, we have gone

and done demonstration projects;

we did demonstration building

in IIT Madras next to Taramani Guest House;

recently, we built 40 apartments

in Nellore under our technical guidance

along with building BMTPC building material

to demonstrate the technology.

Now, at IIT Tirupati, the new hostels

we are going to build,

we are going to use GFRG technology,

right? And then,

we are also working with the possible

manufacturers of the this,

see, it's, you know,

because the one of the constraints is,

where do you get the materials?

So, we are talking to

companies like Saint-Gobain

and other possible manufacturers,

so that we can make this technology,

because, we strongly believe

it is a sustainable technology

and we get a better quality and so on.

But, lot of skill is required in doing this work.

So, we are looking at doing training programmes, right.

So, and then,

we are working with, up to the PMO's office,

and bringing in directions, bringing in

this technology, to scale it up.

So, for example,

Prof. Meher Prasad, our HOD,

and I are part of the high level committee

to bring a policy change to

enable use of this technology, right.

So, I think as engineers, if you...it's...

we also have to do research,

we have to publish,

that is an important thing.

But, if we really want to see

it as benefit to the society,

I think, we need to go further and do this;

which, I think, our department has done

reasonably well on. Well.

Sir, recently you have been named

as the director of IIT Tirupati,

so, what are your visions for this institute?

Yeah.

So, IIT Madras has taken

always taken, whatever it does,

it does in a, you know, systematic way

and with seriousness.

So, we have earlier mentored

IIT Hyderabad.

So, in 2008, 8 IITs had started,

and among them, IIT Hyderabad

today, has probably gone a step ahead

of the others, in terms of the size and all

with the foundation has been laid by us,

in the first two years. Similarly, IIITDM.

So, in 2014 and 2015,

during that period,

six new IITs had been announced.

So, in 2014, five IITs were announced - in

Palakkad, in Kerala,

of course, the site was already...Kerala,

Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Goa and Jammu,

and, in 2015, the Karnataka IIT

was also announced, Dharwad.

So, IIT Madras,

our director Prof. Bhaskar Ramamurthi,

came forward to mentor two IITs,

the one with that we are

geographically have proximity,

the one at Tirupati and Palakkad.

So, when, so, once you mentor,

then, you are supposed to get

the programme off the ground, get it...

to get it going

till the director and the chairman

and the board is appointed by the ministry

and then they run the show.

So, Prof. Bhaskar Ramamurthi

had appointed me as, our director

had appointment me as a professor in charge

to go and start the new IIT

from scratch; zero

slate, "you just go identify the place

where you are going to start your temporary campus,

work in with the government there,

get the faculty to come and teach."

So, we started with 4 branches, of civil...

the IITs that started in 2008,

all of them started with 3 branches,

and each of them took 120 students.

This time also, we also took 120 students,

but, we decided to start with 4 branches - civil,

mechanical, electrical,

computer science.

So, civil is something that we brought in,

which other people started

much later on.

And, the institute,

I think, we have brought into a good shape,

we have the second batch running.

Now, as a person who has been involved,

recently the interviews took place

for the new directorships

and yesterday, day before yesterday,

it was there in the press that

Prof. Sunil and I have been

appointed, will be appointed as the directors

of IIT Tirupati and Palakkad...myself,

that is myself for Tirupati

and Sunil for Palakkad.

So, for IIT Tirupati,

I think, see, one of the things is the,

if you look at the...there are twenty three IITs now right.

Out of which, the original five IITs,

and then two more,

Guwahati started around '92 - '93,

and then, Roorkee became an IIT

around 2002.

So, they are the seven old IITs.

So, we look at them as one set of IITs,

which are the older IITs.

Then, in 2008, eighth more IITs were started.

So, fifteen IITs.

And then, now, six IITs have been announced, right.

So, this is the 3rd

set of IITs

that have been announced.

And, in the meantime, recently,

BHU IIT and

ISM Dhanbad

have also been upgraded to an IIT.

Now, IIT Tirupati,

I think, has lot of potential,

lot of advantages - one is, the

AP government is looking at Tirupati

being the knowledge hub,

being a major knowledge hub for the state,

you know, they call themselves sunrise state.

After the division of the two states,

IISER Tirupati,

there is a new IISER that’s come up in Tirupati,

which is going to be very close to us,

about 3 kilometres.

So, there are going to be

a lot of challenges,

you know, one of the big challenges

all of us have is identifying,

getting good faculty members,

and especially, when you are in a smaller town,

it is a bigger challenge.

But its proximity to both Chennai

and Bangalore to some extent,

and the ecosystem that is developing there,

I think, gives it lots...

has a lot of potential for its future.

And the state government

that is quite aggressive

on pushing these things.

So, some of the areas that we have identified,

that we would like to really stand out

is, one major is going to be smart infrastructure.

You know, the country’s economy is growing,

we are building in lot, bringing in lot more infrastructure,

hence, we have a various initiatives.

So, align them with lot of the government initiatives

like, smart cities, digital India, housing for all.

So, how do we align our...while

having very strong programmes

at both at the undergraduate level

and the research level.

So, I strongly believe that,

the undergraduate programmes should be...

should not, we should not tamper too much

with them, we should be up to date,

but you have to also look at

the employability of the graduates.

So, I think the,

but, when, once we get to the postgraduate programmes

or research, we need to be highly interdisciplinary.

So, all other areas that we are looking at is

food engineering, as one of the areas,

of course, the area of energy and so on.

So, but then,

I also strongly believe,

you need to get the right faculty to push these areas.

So, while we keep these as

some of the focused areas,

it also will depend, because it is something

that will grow together.

It is not just that

director goes there

and says, "this is what I am going to do."

A director has to have a vision,

but also, it depends on

the kind of faculty we are able to attract,

and if they are able to push certain areas and

we see great potential...

I think, we should be a flexible

in terms of how we grow those areas.

So, I think, then, the other thing is,

we would like to be...the Kakodkar committee

has recommended that all the IITs

should be about

10 to 12000 students.

So, for example, IIT Madras, after 65 years,

it is come to about 8 to 9500 students, right.

So, it is been a gradual growth

over thing. But, I think,

we need to grow much faster.

So, I think, in about 20 years we should

get to about 10000 students.

So, right, so, our target is in about 7 - 8 years,

you get where...the campus we are going to build,

is going to be...the first phase

is going to for 2500 student campus.

So, we would like to get to that,

maybe in about 8 to 9 years,

to 2500 students; maybe in about 13 to 15 years,

about 5000 students;

and then, maybe in 20 to 25 years to,

maybe, 10 to 12000 students.

Sir, how do you balance your time

between IIT Madras and IIT Tirupati?

Well, as a professor in charge,

I was spending at least 3 days a week in Tirupati,

once the semester started in August 2015.

If required, 4 days but mostly 3 days,

and I taught here...while I was there,

I was also teaching here.

For example, the last semester,

I did not teach but the previous semester,

I taught 2 courses here .

So, I would like,

I would try to get my courses...two days a week

I would spend on teaching the courses,

three days I would spend there,

weekends spend with the research scholars and so on.

But, now, I guess,

I'd go full time there.

So, it has been challenging,

lot of travel up and down, but very satisfying

to take something just with a clean slate

and get it off the ground.

But, I managed to identify some very good faculty

to come and work with us, good administrative staff.

So, they have all been very focused and dedicated,

so that helped.

Sir, what message

would you like to give to the students studying in IIT Madras

and what does it take to be successful in your chosen career?

Okay, I will answer the first question...

second part of the thing first,

I think, it is passion and hard work;

like, right, without that and first, what I find is,

maybe sometimes, as a faculty member you...

you have to keep, especially

teaching undergraduate course, sometimes,

you go to a class, you wonder,

how many of these guys are really interested

or going to pursue the topic you are teaching

or the area you are going to be teaching?

But, I don’t blame the kids for that,

it is the way the society, it is

the way the industry is hiring,

the way the economy is growing,

and the aspirations of their parents and other things.

So, the thing is...

but, the important thing is,

I think, when you are here,

you are learning to learn and

you need to do well

academically when you are here, right.

I also recognize that, unlike in the US system, the flexibility

in our systems is lesser,

that is, especially the dual degree programme,

if you take someone to decide,

when they are a...17 year old kid to

say that, "I am going to specialize in thermal engineering,"

I think it is a little early.

Because, only when you experience the various fields, subjects

and when you have taken them and this thing, you would

start developing your interests, right.

So, but having said that,

but, once you are here, I think you need to be,

you need to focus on your academic area.

But then, the IITs give you such a

an, it gives you an environment

where you can pursue so many interests, right?

So, it is important that you develop

as a full individual; your communication skills,

your soft skills, your teamwork skills,

and there is enough opportunities

in IITs do to that.

But, one of the

things that, somewhere, we need to break

the cycle little bit is, the seniors influence,

too much of a seniors influence

on the way the, especially, in a negative way, right?

"You need not take things seriously..."

That kind of thing, which we find,

there is a considerable influence.

Because, I have seen that at IIT Tirupati,

havings had the first batch,

I didn’t have that issue there.

I could see the kids were much more engaged,

in terms of what they want to do.

So, basic message is, I think, there is

a lot of opportunities coming up,

the country’s economy is growing,

there are lot of this thing.

So, people should go, should be passionate

about what they are doing and

and you know, not just focused on pay packages.

And, when I was advisor alumni affairs, the then

placement coordinator came to me

and said, certain companies

have not been coming to

IIT Madras for interviewing and asked me to

get in touch with the alumni working in those companies

and get them to come and you know,

into get into the placement process.

So, I asked him, "bring me a flow chart

of how you guys do your placement process."

He said, "there is no process, there is only one box -

who pays highest, comes first,

and then who pays next, next,

next, next, right?"

Then, I said, "if that is the thing,

I am not going to put my weight behind it."

So, if salary is the main criteria and the...I don’t...

I don’t think that in the long run,

that is the way to look at things.

We have to look at a career,

we have to look at

what brings you satisfaction,

where you can make a contribution,

rather than looking at salary

as the basis for your choosing a career.

So, that would be my advice.

Sir, what has been the most satisfying

aspect of your career in IIT madras?

Mostly working with bright students, right,

and the academic freedom. IIT Madras,

the IIT system, gives you so much academic freedom,

that you can choose the area

you are going to work in,

how you are going to work and

you know, the direction you want to go,

gives you a lot of, you know, flexibility, in terms of

taking initiatives and so on.

So, that’s been the most satisfying part

of my IIT...that is the...

one is, working with bright students,

second thing is, the opportunities you have and the

academic freedom that you have.

And, I would say that, most faculty are very responsible

and use academic freedom very responsibly.

Sir, who was your role model?

I wouldn’t say there is one role model.

There are lot of people who have,

who I have always thought of as my mentors.

So, we have had great

mentors here, we had Professor,

as I told you, Prof. C. S Krishnamurthy,

our first head of the department.

uch a focused man, such a visionary person.

And, people like, from Kalyana Raman, again

in the Civil Engineering department,

Prof. Bhaskar...

I mean, Prof. M. S. Ananth,

previous director, who has again been my mentor and

guided me on in lot of things,

the kind of openness with which he used to take things.

I worked very closely with the current director,

Prof. Bhaskar Ramamurthi.

Again, the focus with which

he has been driving this institute.

So, with lot of people,

Prof. V. S. Raju, who

was the former director of IIT Delhi,

again, I have interacted with quite a lot

and learnt lot of things with them.

So, these are some of the people who...

So, I wouldn’t say there is one role model,

there are lot of these people.

I have lot of my professors from US,

you know, kind of focus they used to work,

and the hard work they used to put in.

So, there are a number of people who have been influential,

I wouldn’t say just one role model.

Yeah.

Sir, do you think IIT Madras should

somehow encourage students more to go into research track?

Sir, like, most students are un exposed

to research at all at the undergrad level.

I agree, see, my

thing is, I don’t think that

everyone should go into research.

But, I think, being institutes of national importance and

the people who set the agenda for the various research

and even the curriculum and

other things in engineering programmes,

I feel that, compared to other engineering colleges,

higher percentage of people here

should be getting into research.

I am talking in terms of percentage and I agree with you

that, we have not been very, either it is, probably,

I don’t know, whether it is the faculty

who have not taken the initiatives,

or rather saying, adequate initiatives

to get the students involved

in the research activities.

In fact, as a BTech student,

when I was here, hardly

knew about the research

that was going on, only when you go out

and you start your research,

and you start reading papers,

"Oh! my Prof., they wrote a paper in this" and so on.

So, this is something

we have been talking about now,

for a number of years and

I agree, that I think, we need to

get them little more involved.

But, see what happens is, today...

when I was a student, and we graduated...

As I said, almost 70 to 80 percent...

60 to 70 percent of the students

went abroad, well, almost

all of them went for a master's,

most of them, not all,

went for a master's in engineering.

So, at that time, they were still

thinking about engineering career.

So, they looked at their this thing,

and so, there was a higher probability

of more of them getting into research.

But, today, when very few people are going abroad,

because, very few of them go for

engineering programmes in India;

in the IITs that’s been the trend.

Which means that, most of them are not going into,

I mean, further academic thing,

which means, the number of people

who are eventually going to get into research

and the thing as a percentage is coming down,

compared to earlier.

It is something to be

there, you know, be concerned about

and we need to do something about it,

yes, I agree with that, yeah.

Sir, thank you for interviewing with us.

Thanks a lot. Yeah sir.

Thank you very much, yeah, thanks.

I Professor C. S. Swamy

retired from Department of Chemistry

have immense pleasure in welcoming

Professor V. S. Kumar from the Department of Humanities

my former colleague at the Heritage Centre.

Mr. Kumar, Professor Kumar

we would like to have some personal details of you

that is before you joined IIT Madras. Ok,

as soon as I finished my Honours course in English,

I worked in a college called Andhra Christian College in Guntur.

Prior to that, I had been in the Air Force.

So, I happened to come to Madras

by chance to visit somebody.

Somebody told me that one IIT is going to open,

so, you can try your luck there.

So, I went to CLRI campus and met

one special officer appointed, Chandrakanth

for IIT Madras.

So, I happened to go and meet him.

That must have been in 1959?

Yeah, actually 60.

60 is it? Ok .

So, he said we are looking for a English faculty,

right now we have two

principals from outside, Pachaiyappa College principal,

Professor Krishnamurthy and Professor Krishnan from Jain College.

They were doing part time teaching here for English.

So, Chandrakanth asked me to go and meet one of them

because they were already holding the Principal's post in their college

and they were complaining always that

they do not have time.

Both of them happen to be

Madras senate members, Madras University.

So, I went and met Professor Krishnan.

Unfortunately, they did not take any steps

to appoint a permanent staff.

The Director said two veterans are coming to teach,

there is no hurry to appoint

permanent members in your department.

So, I thought I gave up hope and went back to my place.

Suddenly, I get a letter saying

that you should appear for an interview.

When was this interview?

This was in 60 only. 61 .

And, who are the members of the selection committee and?

Father Murphy was there,

Mr. Natarajan IAS.

Yeah. Registrar was there.

And Professor Sengupto.

Sengupto did not come for this.

I see I see.

So, some twenty two of us appeared for the interview,

out of which they selected two.

One G. Viswanathan and myself. I see.

Frankly speaking, I think I got

the appointment order because of my

previous workshop experience in the Air Force.

I had undergone two years intensive workshop practice.

So, Professor Sengupto said

your knowledge of workshop will come in handy

to teach most of our B.Tech. students because

none of them would have handled handled any tools.

So, I think my appointment is almost

the chance appointment in the sense

there were people with higher qualifications

in the twenty two people selected for the interview,

but I was myself surprised that I got the appointment order.

But there was a hitch there also.

You know Dr. Mudaliar was the Chairman of the board here;

Dr. Lakshmanaswami Mudaliar

who was Vice Chancellor of Madras University.

He was the Chairman here also.

Somehow these two principals from outside,

they said that you need not appoint a permanent staff

and not only that they said

you need not go for a lecturer post immediately.

Give them JTA or STA post.

I do not if those ranks exist today?

No no no. Anyway, that maybe there as a project

project staff No, no JTA STA. I know I remember

we, it was there when I also joined.

So. Now, what were you appointed as?

JTA. You are appointed as JTA.

Yeah, not only me everybody, almost.

Mr. Viswanathan also.

Viswanathan quit after one month

saying you are asking us to teach classes,

but you don't give us the ranks.

I see. So, Viswanathan quit.

They said no no no we will make you Associate Lecturer immediately.

So, he got Associate Lecturer post.

But, you are a

Yeah yeah I still continued in the JTA.

I see I see . Now, you said you did B.A. Honors.

Yes. Was it from the University of Andhra?

Andhra University? Yes, was there.

You are student of Kasturirangan Iyengar?

Not with That famous English professor.

Professor Srinivas Iyengar. Srinivas sorry,

yeah Srinivas Iyengar.

Whose son joined our IIT afterwards.

Professor Ambirajan. Ambirajan.

Ambirajan, yes.

Ok yeah you you continued teaching from 1960 to 19

to 61. Right 61.

61 and you said that Viswanathan was your first colleague.

Yeah. But, then did anybody join later?

I mean immediately. Not in English, no.

I see. How long did professor Krishnamurthy and Krishnan continue?

They continued till almost 64.

I see I see, but you were also taking lectures.

Most of the time we were taking they used to phone

and say I have a senate meeting

please go and take my class.

I see. At least how it,

two years passed like that.

Where were you sitting at that time?

In 1961 BSB? All our departmental

officials were located in BSB.

I know where it will exactly,

first? In the ground floor.

Ground floor. And, who was the other officials?

Dr. Nicholas Klein.

He came to teach German. Yeah.

And, there was one Miss Mrs. Ziauddin.

She came from Max Mueller Bhavan to teach German.

What about the other subjects that came later? So

Economics. Yeah, Dr. Anantharaman V. Anantharaman for Economics.

When did he join?

He also he joined just before me one month before. I see

what about Professor Gupta, R. K. Gupta?

Gupta and others came much later.

I see. So, who was the head of the department?

There was no official head actually. I see.

At the time I joined. I see I see.

I think Anantharaman used to be called for any consultation.

But, right from the time you joined

in 61, you had to be associated with

say publications of the students? Yeah,

that was because Sengupto took it is for granted

if I am in the Humanities Department,

I should be able to edit and also know some Sanskrit.

I see. Yeah, that I know all the languages.

I see. And were you also writing I think we saw in

some of those magazines some poems. Yeah yeah.

And this was written by you

and there are one or two articles

that is written by Viswanathan also

Quite possible. I see.

Unfortunately, all the publications copies

and photographs were came and collected

I mean were collected by one Mr. Dubey .

I see. So, photographs also have been taken away so.

Yeah, I had because I was dealing with

publications all the time

including research publications.

So. You mean research publication means

colleagues used to come to you for.

There. Nothing there.

No no the annual research report.

Oh I see annual research reports Reports.

That is the annual number.

Yeah. They used to call it

I mean that also was edited by me

where I had doubts about technical information

I used to go and meet the head there

and find out seek clarification. I see I see, oh I see.

So, first research report was edited by me and published by me.

Ok, now try to whomsoever remember about

the faculty members who joined HSS,

we talked about Anantharaman.

You said about Gupta, can you remember?

Gupta came much later actually. Ok,

then what about others?

Say in in English? Ziauddin was there a German faculty.

And, you said about another English faculty member

who passed away who joined as associate lecturer Rama Rao.

Rama Rao also came much later.

Much later. Rama Rao also came much later Yes.

and then what about Mrs. Kurian? Mrs. Nainan Kurian?

Yeah, all these people were appointed much later .

But, Krishna Rao, A. V. Krishna Rao?

Krishna Rao came 3 years after me.

He came 3 years after you. Yeah .

He had finished his Ph.D. work in somewhere in Orissa.

Not with Srinivasa Iyengar? No.

I see I see.

Only thing was we were not Associate Lecturer or Lecturer.

So, certain even to get a table

Dr. Sengupto had specified

for Assistant Professor this much table,

for Associate Lecturer this much table,

for Professors very big table .

So, we were not even given a table in the beginning .

All kinds of things happened .

When did you move to HSB Humanities?

I do not remember date.

Yeah it is on 62 the.

In 62 – 63 we started moving

and you occupied. Between HSB and B.

MSB.

MSB, yeah. There used to be a canteen called Ashok Canteen.

Yeah yeah. The tiled.

I showed you. Kind of.

Shed Shed.

Actually the day I joined IIT

sometime June June 30th 1961

we reported to CLRI to join

and Natarajan used to pick up people in a jeep

and bring us to IIT.

We did not have pakka roads in those days.

So, only one building was functioning.

Even the classes were held there

and our classes were very big. 90 to 120 students.

In a way it gave me a good training

in addressing large audiences you know.

No, that was in the first two years.

Yeah. When I admitted large

smaller than apart. And English was taught first two years also.

I see. Humanities courses all ran for two years.

And. Later when they

it was 5-year course when I joined.

Yeah it was. B.Tech. was the 5-year course.

Yeah, it was there up to 80.

Yeah. So, almost

So, we were given many more classes

than it is possible now.

And, after you moved to HSB

I think it was in the second floor.

So, that is when Professor Vairanapillai.

In History Yeah, they all came in.

History. And that Ramachandran

they all joined. Yeah they all came in.

You remember Ramachandran of History? He is no more .

He is no more. It he taught History.

Who did Humanities at any time teach history of science?

There was a proposal to do that. I see but.

They wanted somebody who was

well versed with science and technology

to teach that course.

It was always in the drafting stage only

it never bore fruit that scheme.

But, you said you are teaching English.

But, did you have tutorial classes also. Yeah,

we had tutorials in those days.

At least two tutorials for each batch every week.

So . And, who was the tutorial tutors?

We are all of us.

We have to take a small class.

I see. No, no.

You said you are only two people, so?

Yeah both of us shared

I see I see. So, there to.

Tutorial was a must in those days

and periodical periodical tests were

held in a surprising way.

It was not announced ahead. I see.

Once a students come to class

the teacher will go and say, today I am holding a test for you.

All subjects. That is how

our tutorial classes never exceeded a dozen students,

10 to 12 people.

So, in in a way we had very

close association with students,

the rapport between students and teachers were rather high.

I knew all the students by name.

Even my 100 strength class. Strengths

It was very. So

Very good talent you know

and do you remember any of those students

from the second batch and third batch who were.

Firstly very good in debates and all that. Second batch.

One Natarajan was there.

Was it from the? Yeah, yeah.

Of course, first batch you not on batch. Second batch

second batch Siddharth. Second batch

First Siddharth, then Venkatesan. Venkatesan.

They were all good debaters is it not.

They were good. Good debate, they were self motivated.

Yeah, because. I see from the reports. Yeah.

that they have won number of trophies. Yeah yes.

And, not only in Madras. IIT

holds IIT Madras holds a record for

winning the debate for a number of years. Yeah yeah

and not only that rolling trophies Yeah

and all that they have won.

So, Siddharth was actually if I remember right

he used to come with a suit and all all these. Yeah yeah.

Even for class I think he used to.

Remember any of those students from Punjab Singh?

Bawa was there. Bawa.

So, that was the Secretary of the hostel.

What about some other fellows

who used to do Bhangra dance and all that?

Don't remember?

I moved into Narmada hostel

as a first assistant warden

and that year one Sidhu. Yes.

was the all India number one rank.

Yeah that is yeah. Sidhu.

He. And, then

he got the president gold medal.

Yeah yeah. Short person

and according to Planning Commission members,

his son was here. I see.

I forget his name.

Chagla Chagla. Mr. Chagla?

And Kamali was the Education Minister?

Shrimali Shrimali. Shrimali.

Shrimali’s son. That is in centre.

Yeah Shrimali’s son. His son also got admission here.

Do you remember anything else regarding the initial years

say 6 we moved into the campus? Yeah

So, you stayed in Narmada hostel? Yeah.

For two years or how many year you stayed. One and half year.

One and a half years.

You got married and then moved to.

Yeah, yeah quarter.

You. I and Sharadindra Sur from Mechanical Engineering

we both were appointed Assistant Wardens.

I see. Each hostel used to have two Assistant Wardens

and we had a separate suite to live in.

Yeah . And, Dr P. M. Palani.

Yeah yeah. He used to come all the way.

So he was there. And one of the rooms in my hostel

was used as a consulting room.

The students were

that man used to prescribe only Codopyrin.

So I need to,

Now, we used call Codopyrin that students used to

students used to address him as Codopyrin

and they used to rag him left and right.

No, but they was very calm.

No no they used to take.

So, Palani came and said sir, whenever I come,

you come and sit with me.

I see I did not know.

Yeah I I was in Cauvery Hostel.

For 6 months and

he used to have his room next to mine so Yeah, yeah I know.

So, I remember and we used to always have a jeep

in front of the Cauvery Hostel for emergencies.

When a student has to admitted to hospital in the night

or we have to call Palani

so we used to use that jeep so.

Randhawa first batch.

Venkateshan Venkatesh. Yes.

And, Nagaraj. Yeah.

These were all talented

Natarajan in second batch

as you said Siddharth. Natarajan in second batch

as you said Siddharth.

Siddharth, yes. Of course, the second.

Actually when the second batch passed out

I brought a brought out a annual magazine

with photographs of all the students.

The annual only.

Because we have in the Heritage Centre

the the first batch which passed out,

department wise photographs are there

and also the combined photograph of

all the faculty, a teaching staff and the students

and that is there in the annual number,

but we do not have this second one

I think we have to sets maybe it was there.

So, you have brought out the magazine, is it?

You have brought out the. Yeah, yeah magazine

and also campastimes I used to edit

though Dr. Nicholas Klein’s name was.

Focus was do you remember? Focus came later I think.

Spectator? I do not know but, annual report yes,

chemical scientific research report.

I see I see

and did you have interests

in any other area other than English

in a specific area or in English itself

whether specifically in drama or?

Yeah yeah. In fiction or anything like that?

Every year they used to have

Hostel Day or Institute Day. Yeah.

These were the times we arrange for music programmes

or students dramas.

I see you are. Yeah yeah I was there.

You are directed. Only in the background only.

How you are directed some dramas and all I see.

And you had language lab?

It is came much much later. And who developed it and

was it for the German teaching or English teaching? Yeah for

basically for German teaching.

But, were later used by Professor I I I used to use it for TSE –

Test of Spoken English. I see.

TOEFL I conducted for 10 years.

I see. Along with that some people used to take see TSE

that was done in the lab.

I see and Apart from TOEFL.

I see. TOEFL, GRE, SAT and TSE

all these were contracted at one time or the other.

Of course, TOEFL was a continuous affair.

I see. Every year.

And, you are paid by the TOEFL. Yeah yeah for that

organization in New Jersey.

They used to.

Yeah your exams through conduct in here, is it know. Yeah yeah.

TOEFL and all. I remember,

you used to tell me that it was .

It was all manual in those days,

now everything is on online I think.

Yeah, but you used to

to do. Yeah yeah all that we have to do.

I see, you have to do all.

We could do it only in weekend within institute. Yeah yeah.

And, you remember any of the brilliant speakers

who were invited to IIT?

English speakers or English language speakers ?

Not language specifically or in a

various subject we used to have a

what they used to call extracurricular lecture. Yes

Some mural lecture. Some mural lecture.

That was in Professor Indiresan’s time know? Yeah, yeah.

Before that Professor Narayanmurthy’s time also

he called Subramanian Swamy and some politicians.

So, you you remember all the Directors

till you left, is it not? Directors of course, I remember.

Because- How was your relation with

various Directors and all that?

Sengupto’s house was very informal

because Mrs. Sengupto was a very dynamic lady.

She is the sister of Humayun Kabir’s wife.

That is how.

Do you remember where the Shanti Kunj was?

It is somewhere next to- Near OAT.

near OAT. Yeah.

Because you cannot identify. Which tree,

it was under a tree. It is like a old-

You remember we used to

have the literary programmes there? I know, yes.

For the faculty and all that.

Do remember that once the-

I do not know where the institute organized it

or the cultural this one,

we had a series of dramas

in all the south Indian languages

also in Hindi in CLT.

In fact, in the Tamil drama,

the Dr. Jayavelan from.

From Medical. This all this might have come much later.

Later only around 80s or so.

Yeah yeah. 80s or so.

You you were there very much there right? No,

I was there till 94.

Yes yeah. But, I do not think I participated in all this.

And you are not you do not remember

Because do you remember?

We used to have lot of students

who used to come and say.

Professor Krishna Rao.

Did he guide any students for Ph.D.?

He started doing it,

but I do not think he completed.

Whom Doctor you know that the English as a

subject for JEE was abolished- Was dropped in 1980 or so.

88 I was the person I was I was there-

-since 98. Actually that year

I had gone to Bombay

to set the paper

and also to revise the syllabus. I see.

As soon as I came back from Bombay, they said

your subject is no longer there JEE. Yeah yeah.

Dropped it. It was in 88 or-

Yeah. Now, the new syllabus was drafted

and you you remember that

the the 3 year B.Tech. was there.

So that was So, it was called 'direct entry'.

Direct not direct entry .

That is was to the Indo – Chinese war they started

a condensed B.Tech.

that is the graduates who used to join for a

3 year B.Tech. programme.

Yeah, yeah I remember.

But I possibly- Our-

You have English- Patil Mothiram Patil.

Yeah yeah. M. R. Patil is here.

Yeah. He joined that course.

you mean the Biochemistry Biomechanic. Yeah yeah.

Biomechanic, that is correct. He, one Baswani

who became Chairman of Hindustan Unilever.

Yeah yeah yeah what about Radhakrishna?

Radhakrishna I do not remember Radhakrishna I think.

Quite a few joined that one.

Yeah, it was a small batch,

but they called they were

called 'direct entry students'. 'Direct entry students' three of them-

And do you remember Professor Kamalapathy of

say Trichy who was a mono actor?

He came once and then

Mr. Venkataraman Security Officer

he brought him and he gave a

mono acting programme in CLT.

This was in 76 or so.

Because it was after we

this one I took him home myself

because he wanted to see some mother-in-law in-

You do not remember? I mean he was a-

He was a well known person I was to- I am with the-

give programmes AIR in Trichy and all that

and he has participated in Tamil

dramas also. He used to know

quite a few Tamil actors and all.

And, one more things from the campus life

you stayed in the E type quarters.

E, D and C1. D

for a number of years,

then you moved to C1.

Not many year, 2 not even 2 years in E. I see.

Because these other houses were getting ready. Yeah yeah.

So, then you moved to D.

And, you remember the Superintending Engineer.

Ramaswamy. Yes.

So, he told me as soon as it is ready,

I will give you one flat in D.

So, from D you moved to C1. Yeah.

As. That was much later.

Much later and how were you

how are you keeping your busy after the retirement?

I I solve all the crossword

which whichever paper it comes in.

No, I am talking of.

Your relationship with IIT-

Have been visiting? I think, no.

The campus and I was- Yeah

at least once a month to collect my pension.

So, incidentally I will go and visit the department.

Now that. Now, most of the people who worked with me are

either gone forever or retired.

So, I do not have much I think last one was

Evangeline Manickam is it, she has retired?

Uh that is what I was we were told about it,

but you don't know anybody in English staff.

Rajagopal’s daughter is there she.

I see now that you talk about Rajagopal.

You are talking about that Industrial Management. Yeah.

Now, Rajagopalan. When did he joined?

During your time?

He, Deepak Choudhary. Yes.

They all came for Industrial Engineering.

Deepak Choudhary left back.

Yeah yeah yeah. For I think went back to IIT

Kharagpur. I do not remember the year but-

Rajagopal retired from here? Yeah.

His wife was in the Computer Centre programme.

No no no. His not wife, sister.

His sister, correct.

Her daughter is here now in English department .

In which department?

Sheelu we call Sheelu Sheela.

Which department? English department.

Physics department. English.

I see. Is it Shrilatha?

And- Shrilatha?

Sheela. Shrilatha.

Yeah yeah Shrilu Shrilatha, correct. Shrilu.

And- Also Rajagopalan I mean.

Sorry Thyagarajan in Mechanical Engineering.

You remember him?

I do not remember.

What what is the name?

Thyagarajan K. T. I know I remember

K. T. Thyagarajan Thyagarajan I I remember that.

His brother’s daughter is now in the faculty here. K. T. Thyagarajan. Thyagarajan I-I remember that.

His brother’s daughter is now in the faculty here.

Mathangi. Mathangi I see.

There were quite a few a quite a few. Mathangi is there.

And you you will start telling may-

Professor Rayudu son.

He is in Civil Engineering I was told.

Subbaraju’s son is- Sathyanarayan he is.

Sathyanarayan is Thirupathi Director. Now gone to Thirupathi.

Yeah yeah I know him.

And Professor Verghese son is

the Dean of Administration now,

Dr. Koshy Verghese

Professor Koshy Verghese Civil Engineering.

Of course, you would not have known him.

So. Bhaskar Ramamurthi Raman

I think now a Dean for something.

What you see?

Raman Aeronautics man .

He is now acting register I think. Sriram Sriram.

No no. Sriram.

Yes. Sriram.

These were all my students. Yes.

Sriram, correct. Sriram he was Aeronautics.

I- Because the earlier groups also you must be knowing.

Sathyanarayan’s father Subbaraj.

Subbaraj yes. Chemical Engineering .

Yeah. He and I were colleagues in the university

colleagues means contemporary.

Where? Andhra University.

Oh I see I see Andhra University. I knew

Subbaraj before he came here. Yeah,

Gopichand also might have know.

Gopichand I knew because their guide

M. N. Rao was in Kharagpur IIT. I see.

That is how most of them came Sathyanarayana.

Sathyanarayana, yes. Gopichand.

And from the Physics Department of they have you know

YVGS Murthy and Bheemashankar Shastri.

Bheemashankar Shastri, yes.

Gopalam. Gopalam I did not know.

Ramashastri Professor Ramashastri. Bheemashankar Shastri.

Anyway you you must have known as a-

Ramashastri I know because

Rama Ramashastri’s brother married

my cousin sister in Vizag.

I see I see. I know them very well.

I think Ramashastri's sister was also

a Professor there-

here- -as you told yeah yeah one.

Sister no. Ramashastri sister.

Something like that. No no.

Somebody was telling me I do not know.

Chilukuri Ramashastri.

His sister was nowhere in the picture. I see I see.

You are you are in touch with any other faculty of IIT now?

Velachery there are quite a few number of faculty. Yeah yeah.

Yeah whenever they come to Madras

sometimes some of them phone and come. Who are-

who are the people let me know.

I remember last was Rajagopalan only.

Professor Kalidas Professor. Kalidas lives near my house.

Professor Veluswamy. Veluswamy lives opposite me,

right now he is in Coimbatore.

Yeah yeah. He is going to move here.

His son is on the faculty in Buffalo.

Yeah yeah he is a-

You have any remembrance of the campus?

Whatever you remember about the campus in those days?

Can you please some so-

Yeah, I remember meeting lot of snakes near ESB.

When we joined there were no pakka roads.

So, all of us used to go and eat in the hostel.

In the beginning 61

we used to see lot of snakes,

Gradually as people moved in,

all the wildlife moved away.

But, you said that you joined in 61. 61.

But where would you staying in 61?

61 I was staying in Sriram Nagar outsides the gate.

Sriram Nagar. Before my quarters in the hostel got ready

I was living outside. I see.

Because I moved

straight away into Cauvery hostel. That is why.

Do you remember any of the staff students

sports that were played in played in 62 or 63?

I thought they were getting

first prize every year they went,

IIT Madras Guwahati.

No no not but the inter hostel.

Inter-IIT I mean.

I am talk of the staff students sports.

You remember we we we did play

in 62 staff versus student cricket

matches and all that.

Natarajan, Dubey, they all play Yeah yeah I know.

You remember you remember some match? Vaguely very vaguely.

You were not very interested in

I mean 63 also it was played

when you were in Narmada Hostel.

Yeah because I had so many other duties

apart from that Do you remember any of those

people who was joined at that time and left?

The faculty who were there.

Your department Dr. K. Krishnamurthy.

K. V. Krishnamurthy he is was there only

for 6 month. Yeah 6 months.

And, what about Mechanical?

Majumdar Swamynathan in Civil.

Swamynathan in Civil is it? Civil Engineering.

Padmanabhan. Padmanabhan.

Civil. He is much later.

Mechanical Mechanical. Mechanical.

You remember him? Yes

He was also in D type quarters.

This Swamynathan was the

senior most in Civil at the time

before Dr. Verghese came.

Swamynathan Yes. I see.

He was not there for long.

You remember Sankaran, K. S. Sankaran? Yes yes.

They all came later.

Sankaran I remember. Yes, Sankaran

Sankaran. Radhakrishnan I remember

Professor Radhakrishnan R. Radhaksrishnan

who is now stays in

that behind Padmanabhanagar so.

There Sobhanadri use to live.

Sobhanadri is in Padmanabhanagar.

I mean he has the house in Sobhanadri. Yeah.

Padmanabhanagar E. G. Ramachandran lives behind.

Yeah E. G. Ramachandran. Yeah obvious I-

We have a-

You had some photograph? .

This is the-

Can you show it on some case? Yeah.

See it again. Yeah.

This is the- we will keep it with you.

We will- This is the photograph.

It was Ramachandran. This was the first

Alumni Association Executive Committee. Yes.

Yeah. Yes.

How does that come there? Ok yes.

the Alumni Association yeah,

yeah I think Alumni Executive Committee.

Yeah. That means, Dr. Ramachandran.

it was it was started sometime in

66 or 67 may be. Yeah 66 only.

I see 66.

You remember this one?

Srinivas Murthy. Srinivas Murthy.

Srinivas- He became a Dean later.

Yeah was he- He was doing Ph.D. at that time.

Yeah Srinivas Murthy correct-

and- The thing-

Who is this? This fellow was from your

department I think Chemistry.

No. Or one of these people.

E. G., E. G. Ramachandran . Yeah, I think

this man was in your department. No no.

One Chemistry guy was this is Rayudu,

this gentleman from Metallurgy .

So, the Sundaresan. E. G. Ramachandran.

Sundaresan. Director Ramachandran,

myself and Deputy Director Prof. Sampath. Sampath

Yeah yeah yeah I remember.

I am not able to make yeah this is correct

Krishna yeah yeah.

Correct, he was a research scholar

he he was did M.Sc. and then research he joined

faculty. I think this was the first.

Faculty. I mean last advisory post I had after this.

Yeah that is right.

So, this is the-

I do not know if you can remember any of it? Yeah.

What is this about?

Remember this one?

That was our Humanities Department Humanities.

I see, the Humanities Department the photograph.

You can later take it?

I can see Prof. Krishna Rao here

in the front row sitting.

Narendran. This must be in in the 80s then. Yeah yeah.

80s. I forget this lady was teaching Psychology.

Oh Psychology? This was the first Industrial Engineering batch.

Yeah. Students also are there.

Yeah, Industrial Engineering Professor.

Professor Amith sir. And the-

This is with Prof. R. K. Gupta.

There and Ambhirajan is here. Yes.

When did Ambhirajan join and he? Ambhirajan

came much I think I think

late 70s or 80s. 80s 80s he came

and he was there till you retired?

Ambhirajan passed away after I retired.

I yeah in the 90s

there were some problem and-

This was the Krishna Hostel.

There your manager hostel.

This is not Krishna hostel,

but then the manager is the Krishnaswamy.

Yeah Krishnaswamy is there.

He is- That is yeah, but-

He was originally in Cauvery hostel,

then he went back,

he went to gymkhana and came back.

This is Prof. Krishnamurthy.

What is this the table?

This is the Hostel Day. Hostel Day.

Hostel Day. This is the Hostel Day celebration.

Krishna Hostel. You can see the some of the

German, German professors along with-

Professor Krishnamurthy’s back can be seen.

His back only you see in here

that is Krishnamurthy. And I am here,

somewhere here. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Yeah this was used to be

groups used to say the students used to I remember.

Every hostel used to have a

Hostel Day in those days. We would we would like

take it and then make copies and give it back to you. Which one?

These things. I will pass it on to you.

Sir, I have a question. Yeah yeah.

I mean sir Professor Kumar had said that

he joined with Mr. Chandrakanth. Yeah.

I was under the impression Mr. Chandrakanth

had left immediately after the institute of- Yeah as soon as

Sengupto. But how did he came back sir

You joined in 60 or 61. 61.

So, how was he here then sir?

I had a interview in 60.

No, but I think.

It was put off.

They did not recruit anybody till 61

because those two gentlemen from the local colleges

who are coming and supposed to take classes. Yes yes.

So. But still it's 1960.

No no. Mr. Chandrakanth was here then

Yeah. In 19.

Office was in CLRI.

I think. CLRI was where Madras IIT office opened first.

Yes yes. After the CSR Central Leather Research

CLRI they gave a few rooms. Yes.

That is where I met them. That is where

Prof. Kumar what he is, he is Mr. Kumaran.

So, what he is asking is as per our information

Chandrakanth Chandrakanth was here only in 59

till the Director till the Register joined.

No not only 59,

he was there for 1960 also for a few months.

Few months maybe he was there

I cannot verify from everybody

possibly because he tried to

because Sengupto joined in 59

August or something like that.

So, he the special officers

You remember that [inaudible]

Sanskrit saying is there know you know. Yes yes.

Siddhirbhavati. Yeah that was coined by Professor Sengupto.

One day he came into our department,

he said Kumar, you are Humanities man,

you should know this.

Give me a good Sanskrit quotation.

Fortunately, I read that somewhere,

I repeated it

and he said very good and

he went and put the lamp.

Ok. Which one that lamp is it?

The lamp under Sanskrit saying.

Siddhirbhavati. Siddhirbhavati karmaaja.

I see I know it was your idea is it?

It was I remembered from some book. Right.

He- Right it is in in front of the BSB.

Yeah. Here on this ok.

So, and so- Yes sir.

Professor Sengupto took it for granted that way

he will know anything connected with any language. Yeah.

He is some, he used to bring some Sanskrit quotation

and say: what does this mean?

So, if if we are not told

we used to have a tough time.

Humanities means that we should know

everything about Humanities. I see.

Sir one more question sir.

Professor Swamy. One more question sir.

Professor Kumar had mentioned Father Murphy.

Maybe we can ask him

more about his association

with us with us and with the Vanavani?

Yeah. Father Murphy who was a teacher

for IAS Natarajan Registrar.

Ok. That is how he came into the picture.

He also appointed the Principal

for Vanavani school, Mrs. Peters.

He brought her.

Because anything to do with English

these people said: Father Murphy.

Oh I see that is how I see ok. That is how.

Actually he was one of the experts

who selected us in the interview.

He and yeah he he was the only expert, right.

You mentioned about your

appointment as a Technical Assistant. Yes .

But you are reflect as Associate Lecturer and Lecturer.

No we were asked to take classes.

No no when did you become an

Associate Lecturer and Lecturer?

I became a Associate Lecturer after 9 years I think.

What about Assistant Professor? STA.

And then Associate Lecturer,

then Lecturer, then Assistant Professor.

When did you become a Assistant Professor? I-

83 or so . I see.

And did you have you published any books or any?

No. I see I-

but your contribution to IIT has been a

quite alot. No, in the beginning

actually one of the experts who faced me

for promotion was Dr. Radhakrishnan's son,

Delhi Radhakrishnan, President Radhakrishnan. President-

His son. Gopal.

He was in the Expert Committee

when I was when I became a Assistant Professor. Oh is it.

That Kannada man Sridharan. But he was History man.

What was his Director’s name?

Indiresan, is it?

Not Indiresan, the-

When was it?

In the Industrial Engineering man. No no. So- Our see our directors.

this gentleman also was a Kannadiga.

Professor L. S. Srinath. Srinath.

Professor L. S. Srinath.

Srinath's students used to select

the best teachers every year.

Yeah. So, 3 years I-I got the first ten.

Best teacher ok. Most popular.

I figured 3 times.

So, he said he has got

a excellent rapport with the students,

you say he got selected as best faculty ten.

So, Gopal said,

if you are keen if if he has done all this,

I think you should give him the post. That's it.

Any anecdotes you remember

about work about your department?

We have told already a few things.

Other than say-

So, you said about right Natarajan

doing your a car for going to

Jupiter Press and all that.

So, any other thing so,

I told you about this is the

campus changed quite a lot time to time.

So, you was told about observing the snakes

and all that now do you remember

there used to be a vegetable garden

somewhere behind the stadium

not behind the stadium in front of the stadium,

from the sewage the treatment thing

it results to be a- you remember?

I remember the-

When you were in the E type quarters

they used [inaudible] Professor Sengupto buried his dog

right in front of his quarters.

It died, he got it buried right

in front of Director's Bungalow.

Yeah that is right

that was removed during

Narayana Murthy’s time later Professor. Yeah.

Narayana Murthy’s time. Yeah,

that is remembered by some students not all of them.

Now, the Gajendra Circle had had a number of

changes and finally, the

present Gajendra Circle and the Heritage Centre

has tried to trace that one

and they now have a-

have take made a-

I think you have made sort of the- Model.

write up about the whole thing.

Now, the Heritage Centre is trying to-

Where exactly is this located, Heritage Centre?

It is in the Administrative Block,

ground floor itself.

We just passed just now.

We will go now.

We will going to introduce the Heritage Centre. HLT I want to move to the-

We will go there sir.

We will now go now. No no.

Which is Security Officer is there? He is there.

No no sir. Opposite that, ok.

The security has been moved to the

I mean other side,

he is now on the eastern side. Yeah yeah.

I know. The western side complete is.

Yeah I-I was in contact with those people

till Selvamani was there Yeah.

After that I do not know

who is Security Officer . Yeah there are

so many people are a Selvamani.

Selvamani afterwards some Army man came.

So I do not know who is there now.

I also not visited.

Now, did you were you visiting the club?

Yeah Staff Club, yes.

Faculty Club Faculty Club.

Faculty Club, was there is separate club is there?

That is the that is

that one near the Community Centre

I am talking about the Staff Club

Staff Club near the. Yes yes.

D type quarter

I mean you know- Yes.

near the that Banyan Avenue I say.

You are talking about near shopping centre?

Yes. Near shopping centre.

That is called Staff Club.

Staff Club that is what I said. Yeah.

So, have you? Yeah yeah I was,

you remember one Gopal Executive Engineer? Yes.

He was one of the office bearers,

I was office bearer for entertainment sector,

the dramas. I see.

Debates, that kind of a thing.

Yeah, see when I asked you about anecdote

I want to remind you about one thing.

Do you remember that-

a-a dinner was arranged in honor of H. V. R. Iyengar

in that Staff Club

at that Community Centre?

In the lawns there

and Professor R. K. Gupta was the

I think the President of the Faculty Association .

And one of my colleagues was the Secretary

and that day after dinner was served

we had the buffet dinner

and then somebody by I do not know

by mistake or by intention

they had ordered the beedas.

So, thank you Mr. Kumar. No no.

Welcome . Thank you for coming so.

Welcome to the Oral Program by the Heritage Centre

and I am here with Professor Nagarajan, I am Kamala Krithivasan

and I am here with Professor Nagarajan.

Two of us were there in the department for a long time.

For the long time. 60, 70’s and so on.

So, it is nice to have a I welcome you Professor Nagarajan and

let us share our experience with the Heritage Centre.

At the outset, I wish to thank the members of the Heritage Centre

for having given me this great opportunity to be here on this occasion.

To have a very nice discussion with Dr. Kamala Krithivasan

who has been my colleague,

a very learned colleague in the computer science department.

I also thank that this for giving this opportunity

and I am very happy to be with my former colleague Professor Nagarajan;

who was one of the

leading person in establishing the computer centre here.

Let us. Well, if I want to recount my early days you know,

I was born and bred up in Chidambaram;

one of the best places you know,

in the mythological sense now Lord Nataraja is there you know,

acting as a cosmic dancer.

Then I was bred up, educated at Chidambaram.

My initial schooling was in Pachaiyappa’s High School.

I did up to SSLC; then I studied in Annamalai University.

In those days there was no concept of 11th and 12th.

The actual 11th and 12th was called ‘intermediate’

in those days in the university.

So, I did 2 years of intermediate, 2 years of B.Sc.

and 4 years of chemical engineering, B.E. chemical.

In those days it was a very interesting course,

because it was once called B.Sc. Tech.

At that time the head of the department was one person from Pilani.

So, what he did was, he wanted to revise the syllabus

to make the course at par with other disciplines.

B.E. mechanical or B.E. electrical or B.E. civil.

In a similar way he wanted to make this as B.E. chemical.

So, lot of mechanical engineering components were included in the subject,

like theory of machines, you know,

machine design and drawing then heat engines.

So, all those components were included.

Similarly electrical engineering components were included;

maybe civil engineering components were included like graphic statics,

theory of structures, tons of materials ok.

So, it is a very interesting composite course.

There was also a move that

they can extend for 1 year and offer B.E. mechanical,

but later on that concept was given up due to various reasons.

So, this is my initial educational background.

Then I moved to see after completing my B.E. chemical

I moved to A. C. College of Technology as a research associate.

So, I was there for nearly two and a half years.

You know quite surprisingly,

I was allocated to the engineering,

I mean, department of A. C. College of Technology.

I was teaching electrical engineering,

I was teaching mechanical engineering right,

then computers, not exactly computing,

some aspects of statistical analysis.

So, this is my initial career commencement.

So, after spending 2 and a half years under Dr. Laddha,

somehow he took a fancy for me.

So, in 1960 I moved over to IIT Madras, right.

So, it is September 1960,

you know 1 year after its inception.

So, I have grown along with this institute.

It is a great institute.

See when you talk about IIT,

IIT is not just an organization,

it is a magnificent concept. It is a phenomenon.

We try to see a lot of things you know happening between IIT

at that point in time is one of the greatest institute

especially in the South.

So, I started working in the department of chemical engineering.

Even though it was a chemical engineering I was

more interested in process control.

I was as I set up the process control laboratory,

then I also working for my

M.Tech. program as well as Ph.D. program as a student.

I was both a faculty and a student.

So, we had that kind of advantage in those times.

So, we were allowed to register for

M.Tech. as well as for Ph.D. program.

So, my Ph.D. program is more on drug reduction.

Surprisingly Professor Nigam was my main guide and Dr. Venkateswarlu,

the Head of the Department of chemical engineering was my co-guide.

Now this project was given to me by Professor Nigam,

professor of mathematics.

So, I had been actually interacting with the mathematics department also

from that time onwards.

So actually that was the first thesis from India,

especially on drug reduction.

Previously it was done in MIT,

Dr. Burke who was actually working in that particular area.

It was focused on viscoelasticity.

So, I did lot of programming, actually I did lot of analysis on that.

And we also came up with new theories on that drug reduction

and then we published lot of papers also on that.

So, it is a very very interesting area

and but this work also pertains to non Newtonian fluids.

Especially what is a Newtonian fluid?

There are other, I mean, fluids like pseudoplastic,

dilatant fluids, rheopectic, thixotropic.

There are so many such fluids.

So, when you want to have the control system of such kinds of fluids,

how do you do it?

So, these are all some of the aspects

which I concentrated on that Ph.D. program.

So, that is my Ph.D. level.

So, I actually published a number of papers on those areas

and I should say that Professor Nigam

played a very important role in making up the thesis.

In fact, the two, I mean,

the people who have actually valued my thesis,

one in West Germany, one in Japan;

they actually appreciated the thesis

and then they gave a very complimentary reports about that.

So, this is about my Ph.D. program.

You want to ask any questions?

When did you move to computer centre started?

I moved to computers and in fact, it was not a transfer,

It is. It was a selection.

I have got selected in computer science me in 1973.

So, at that time I was the first staff member to start

the computer science department.

Professor Sampath was the Director at that time.

So somehow, I do not know,

well 12 people were interviewed and I was selected,

because at that time when I was in chemical engineering

I used to interact with the Dr. Ramani in the management department.

He was the head of management department at that time.

We wrote a book also on computer programming

with industrial and engineering applications.

Now, the three authors Dr. Ramani, Dr. Koteswara Rao

and my humble myself, right.

So, we three wrote a book at that time

it was very very popular in those days.

I remember that it was a very popular book

and I think you mainly used FORTRAN in that.

FORTRAN main focus was on Fortran 77.

So, we did that particular topic in FORTRAN language.

We brought out all the nuances of that language,

how it should be used in the scientific computation.

At that time three languages were very popular;

one is the FORTRAN, the other one is COBOL

the other one language is PL 1.

PL 1 is the combination of FORTRAN and COBOL.

It has all the, I mean scientific computational elements of FORTRAN

and all the output aspects of COBOL.

It is a very nice, I mean, integration of FORTRAN and COBOL,

it was used on the IBM 370 system.

Now, to talk about this IBM 370,

it is a very very interesting and exciting experience

and exacting experience also.

Because we too spend lot of days in understanding the nuances

of the hardware as well as the software complications, you know.

It is a very huge operating system, we call it as MBS.

It has both the system management function,

recovery management function,

then the task management function, job management function.

You will find that operating system

is a very good management specialist ok,

because we are working on multi programming environment.

See that is one system which we got

had that particular facility of multi programming.

At a time 6 programs can run simultaneously.

So, it was operated on two modes;

one is multi programming fixed number of task,

multi programming with variable number of task.

So, how to improve the output?

So, many people you know used to work on IBM 370

and then that in fact, West German people were very skeptical,

whether they can make the full utilization of that IBM 370.

In fact, we justified that we are capable

and we used to have lot of projects implemented on IBM 370.

It is a very very interesting experience for us for all of us.

For the first time we are exposed to that kind of fourth generation computer.

It was given to us as a gift from the west from the Republic of Germany.

And it has actually catered to the needs

and the requirements of all the sections of people

from various departments.

Very interesting experience for us

and see once I will tell you the operational aspects also;

when the temperature rises in the ambience,

automatically the system will get shut down right.

I think most of you might not have seen that IBM 370 and then

how it was actually working.

A very very pleasant experience for all of us you know.

We feel proud that we have worked on IBM 370.

So, at that time you know I was the first staff member to start this

and later on Professor Mahabala joined

and he is one of the outstanding computer scientist who disseminated

the computer culture in the South right.

So, he played a very vital role and he brought up the department

to what it was at that point in time.

Now, he recruited all the people.

I would say that my own students

joined the computer science department:

Dr. C. R. Muthukrishnan, Dr. Kalyana Krishnan,

they were all my students actually

and they took over and they superseded me.

So, it is a great matter of pride

that your own student supersedes you right,

and I was working with them I was working under them also.

So, initially I may be

acting as head and then when Mahabala was not there,

I used to act as head,

but later on you know with the press of time

our own students, you know,

you have the privilege of working under them.

So, that was for some time.

So, this is initially about our Computer Centre

right and then the computer science department.

I should say that Professor Mahabala

had been a driving force to improve or to get

lot of things for the department of computer science.

See, I basically, I am a mathematician.

I did B.Sc. in mathematics and M.Sc. in mathematics

at Madras Christian College, Tambaram.

In both B.Sc. and M.Sc, I got the first rank in Madras University.

But before the M.Sc. results came out,

I was married and I was in Lucknow.

So, at that point of time I did not know

whether I will have a career life or not.

Then the results came out.

Then my Professor Rani Shiromani,

she had been working in the area of formal languages,

I do not know for what reason she took that area,

but it is an upcoming area

which has got application in compiler writing.

So formal languages was a computer related topic

and she submitted her thesis around that time.

When I finished my M.Sc.,

the results came out and then I got the first rank and

the chairman of the committee processing the marks was S. D. Nigam.

He asked this, the difference between the first rank and the second rank

was too large and he said that

why do not you ask this boy to join our IIT Madras to do Ph.D.

But then my professor said she is, it is not a boy, it is a girl

and she is married and she is in Lucknow now.

Then he left it.

After 6 months for some reason I came back,

and my husband was very cooperative in my career development.

And after I came back, I thought of taking up some job,

but it was in around March and then some colleges said

you come in June when the academic session starts.

But then at the time I realized that I was pregnant.

So, what happened is, my professor said you can take care of the child

and you continue doing Ph.D.,

we will apply for UGC fellowship and you do.

So ok, I joined for Ph.D. program for the UGC fellowship.

And I started working in the area of automata theory.

I did not know that it was very much related to computer at that time.

But once I started working in the area, I liked the area very much

and I was working on array grammars.

The automata theory is basically a part of the,

it is very useful in compiler writing.

The compiler has two parts; the analysis and the synthesis part.

The analysis part has the parser and the lexical analyzer

and the parser has lot of theory behind it.

So, similarly there is lexical analysis uses regular expression

and that also is basics in automata theory.

At that time even in US many universities

did not have computer science departments.

All the people who moved out to computer science department

are working in the computer science department

they are either from electrical engineering or from mathematics.

And there are many mathematics people who are working in that area

and they looked at it from the point of semi groups,

groups, operations or the groups and things like that.

So, actually I was looking at it though grammar

I worked on grammars it was more like, you know,

the theatrical point of view.

I knew FORTRAN little bit, but not worked with

any computer system at that time.

The computers centre was started in IIT at, in 1973

and there were 6 basic, only M.Tech. programs was there,

6 basic courses were taught at for M.Tech.,

out of which 2 were theoretical courses,

1 was called ICO; Introduction to Computer Organization

in most Boolean algebra and other things were taught there.

The other topic was automata and formal languages

that is also basics in computer science.

One Professor Laxmi Virahan was teaching those two courses,

he was also teaching an advance course

at that time for the M.Tech. program.

And he got a very good offer from U.S.

and he had to leave in 1975,

he around October or November he wanted to leave.

Then if he left there was no other person to teach us.

Of course, Professor Muthukrishnan could have taught it

and Mahabala of course could teach ICO,

but they had other courses to teach also.

So, this is the theoretical courses

there was nobody to teach the M.Tech. students

and they were frantically looking for a person who could teach

the theoretical courses and there was an advertisement

local for other researche associates and so on.

So, they sent to some colleges and it came to Christian College also,

then my professor said why do not you take, try to,

I had just finished a Ph.D. at that time.

So, why do not you try for this research associate position?

I said I do not know programming,

I knew a little bit about FORTRAN programming,

but I have not worked with any computer system.

So, how can I apply for that?

No, you just try.

So, I applied.

Professor Mahabala called me to his house and he interviewed me.

Then he said what is your background and all that,

I said I do not have very good knowledge of programming,

but my area is the electrical computer science

and I had some very good publications at that time.

So, he said there are two courses to be taught.

Now, you have to teach them

and you sit along with the M.Tech. students

and learn other some topics of computer science.

So, ok I said.

Then I joined in October 1st 1975 as a research associate.

Now before I joined Professor Mahabala had to go to U.S.

for some reason and then he said I will be out of country when you join,

join and teach the M.Tech. students

regular expressions and finite automata.

So, the first day I joined around 9 o’clock I gave the joining report.

10 o’clock I took the class on regular expressions and then

11 o’clock I went to the administrative building to finish the formalities.

So, I was sitting with the M.Tech.

students for some time to learn the other topics of computer science.

And these two courses basically theoretical, I used to teach the M.Tech.

both were core courses.

And what?

So, after some time I became familiar with other topics also and then,

but still I continued to work in theory till the end I worked on theory,

but with the application to other areas.

IBM 370 was the machine at that time.

For me it was a very good experience

and I found it very nice to see this machine and

have the opportunity of working with the machine.

I tried to do programming and learned programming.

And also there used to be the punch card reader and

punch card printing machines at that time there.

All the jobs used to be printed in punched cards

and then they will submit it to the input, some counter will be there,

they will submit to the counter and then after 1 day or maybe

you submit in the morning they will select the output which is a printout

for in the printer and evening.

So, people used to do that.

From other departments other,

even from other universities people used to come and then

do the punched card work and then they submit and then go.

At that time they appointed two people for doing that alone.

This is because that punch card printing it requires some knack like typing.

But then it requires some knack

and so somebody cannot spend too much time on that.

I mean people working in research areas

this spent half the time on using the punch card reader

they will not have enough time for other things you know.

So, punch printing punch cards alone they appointed

one, Laxmi Venkatesh as I remember then another person

two people they appointed at the time.

I used to learn to use the machine and all that on Saturday’s,

because 5 days I used to work in the department,

the 6th day Saturday I put my first daughter in Kendriya Vidyalaya here.

So, morning I used to drop her and come and

sit the whole day in the computer centre,

learn other topics and so, it went like that I think.

To my, actually from what prompted me to move to computer science,

at that time, you know Professor A. Ramachandran was the Director,

he was supporting interdisciplinary work and research.

In fact he used to make people work in other departments also.

That is why I started, I mean, interacting with management department with

chemistry department, biotechnology department.

So, my head finally, yeah a kind of a comprehensive

background I could develop.

So, that actually prompted me to go to

to move to computer science department.

And that with the book, with my background you know,

I could move very easily and it was a seamless transfer.

I mean I will not say I had a problem,

but usually you know when you move to some other domain

you always feel the entrance effect, you know.

There is always some sort of a turbulence initially.

So, I could stabilize on the turbulence and then try to move forward.

So, my actual focus when I was in computer science department,

my I used to teach simulation and OR and database systems.

So, because I have been

accustomed to simulation even when I was in chemical,

So, I used to teach simulation of chemical plants.

So, in the same mode I started teaching this simulation subject.

How to simulate one machine on the other machine like PDP 11.

How to I mean simulate PDP 11 onto 370?

What are the parameters to be taken into account?

So, this kind of a problem I used to do.

I used to do simulation also for management people.

I used to teach simulation for management people

according to their needs and requirements.

And I used to teach OR alSo,

basic OR as well as advanced OR.

And I always concentrated more on application areas

whereas, I am a little bit I mean

doubtful about my competence in the theory.

So, I always concentrated on the application areas.

So, even my all the thesis that I have produced in computer science

they were all related to some sort of commercial application.

Like management games right,

it was one of the thesis which was very much appreciated

because you know without gaming

how do you now try to understand the

the commercial environment or the firmament.

So, this is one of the things which I used to do.

Since I was also interacting with Dr. Ramani

I used to be associated with all his projects, you know.

even in his research work;

like service after sales is one of the most important area you know.

So, in that way I have been actually

interacting with most of the departments.

Then I was also involved in CRD,

I think the Centre for Rural Development you must have heard of it.

In those days Professor Indiresan used to be

very very conscious about this particular aspect.

Because he wanted to contribute to appropriate technology

because there was a lot of threat ? against IIT you know

that people are not concentrating on appropriate technology.

They have not taking out,

they seem to work only for academic excellence right.

So, he wanted to prove that IIT’s can also be capable of

implementing appropriate technology.

So, we started a habitat in Narayanapuram right.

It is a very beautiful habitat.

At that time Professor Radhakrishnan was actually

steering that activity with the son of Dr. Bhagavantam.

So, he was also associated with cascade.

So, I was also involved in the design,

the design of biogas, because they wanted to put up a biogas plant,

then wind mills, then solar energy system, then the agricultural systems.

So, it was a very nice habitat.

If you look at the whole system you know they were very nice.

They wanted to replicate this kind of model

across the entire Coromandel Coast, ok.

So, for 2 years it was doing very well,

I do not know how it was all given up due to.

What reasons you know nobody knows;

because it was a very good one and I was also involved