I was born in rural Andhra Pradesh in a very small village

and where we had only a primary school

and went to high school in the neighbouring village.

And those days you know

even to have a pair of chappals are the luxury.

Correct.

So, I tell my grandchildren that

I got my first chappals at the age of 8

and probably that was the most happiest

time, one of the most happy times of my life.

I used to a very proud with walking with those chappals.

Then, I did intermediate in the neighbouring town,

about 5 kilometers or so from our village.

So, first year intermediate I used to cycle there and

second year stayed in a rented room.

And after intermediate,

I was not qualified immediately to join engineering

because of the minimum age criteria they had.

In those days, you should have a minimum age to join

and then I was I think when I finished my

intermediate, I was only a 14, so very young.

So, then fortunately, what happen is that

Andhra University College of Engineering,

that we are only the relaxed age.

So, it was informed to me by one of my seniors

that there is an age relaxation and

I immediately applied and got admission

into College of Engineering Andhra University.

This is in Vizag?

College of Engineering Andhra University.

This is in Vizag or where is it?

It is in Vizag, it is in Vizag, it is in Vizag. Alright,

Ok, sir.

Then, my father who was a farmer,

who got educated only up to class 5,

his dream was that his son should pass high school.

So, that was his dream he could not think higher than that.

So, he put in lot of effort

in motivating me to study well in school.

For example, he used to wake me up at 4 in the morning

and with a kerosene lamp

you know it's all dark around and you are afraid,

so he used to sit next to me

and so that I can study without fear.

Ok.

So, that training

helped me to focus on studies and then it became very easy.

So, I was privileged to top my school in high,

for high school and then

then go for intermediate and then get admission to

College of Engineering Andhra University.

And then after his bachelor, my father being a farmer,

for them a irrigation supervisor, our overseer, is a big man.

Ok.

So, he was very keen that I should join the Irrigation Department.

Government. The government.

And I got an offer also

to join the Irrigation Department.

But I met one Colonel, Military Engineering Services,

who is introduced, who was introduced to me through somebody,

then when he saw my academic record

he said joining MBA or

government department is not for you.

Your academic background is very good, so you should go for a master's.

So, my father was not in agreement with that

because he and he also said he cannot support me,

with Master’s degree that would be difficult.

But then I said there are some scholarships available.

Ok.

So, anyway finally, I convinced him and

went to Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore

Yeah.

for my master's.

Then you know that time there were 3 different programmes

in structural engineering, in hydraulics and in

geotechnical or not, those days we used to call it soil mechanics.

The soil mechanics programme was to 9 months plus

6 months of practical training.

Ok.

Whereas, the other programs were 1 and a half

years plus 6 months of practical training.

So, because this is a shorter program,

Ok. So I chose soil mechanics.

Ok. And then,

but unfortunately the criterion they adopted

for scholarships was also the mean.

So, in the interview when one of the faculty

member asked me what did your father does,

If I told him in agriculture and then we own 10 acres of land I told him.

So, then he said 10 acres is a lot of land.

So, that means, you are a rich farmer.

Your father is a rich farmer.

Ok.

So, that he did'nt give me the scholarship,

so that was very hard.

Then afterwards I met the head of the department and explained to him.

Then he was very kind and then he found some

40 rupees per month scholarship

instead of 150 rupees that was a.

Ok. Anyway somehow I managed

and a friend of mine

who was on leave from Banaras Hindu University

to study the master's attaining a degrees of science,

he told me that there is a faculty position vacant,

lecturer’s position vacant in Banaras Collage.

So, I applied and then got an interview

and then afterwards got selected as lecturer.

Ok.

So, that is how I started my teaching career

at Banaras Hindu University.

And then because I finished school early by jumping classes

then I was only 19 plus when I started as a lecturer.

Yeah.

So, that was a scary experience

because I was asked to teach final year classes.

Ok.

And among the students were older than me.

So, in the class.

And then, they used to make fun of me

when I turn to the board to write,

then we had a very well-known picture

starred by Raj Kapoor in those days

and there is a very famous song, Raju mera naam.

Ok. So, they sing that song.

So, that is how I started my academic career.

Maybe I will stop here, maybe you have some

something to ask about what I have said.

Ok sir.

Sir, ok

BHU was your first teaching assignment.

Yes.

Then, you went for doctorate programme to Germany.

Yes.

As you did it in Karlsruhe the University, University of Karlsruhe you know.

Yeah, that's correct.

Ok.

Why why did you choose Germany?

Because.

Yes.

Probably that was the time U.S.

education must you know many people

you know went to U.S. ,

I think probably in your contemporary age, but why why Germany?

Yes, yes. So, is there your some

special motivation for selecting?

See, while at Banaras I saw an advertisement

in the papers about the German Government Scholarships.

Ok.

So, I said why not I apply?

I didn't know much about Germany in those days.

Ok.

But anyway I thought that

the fact that they are offering scholarships for Indian students,

so it must be interesting.

And then you know what is another interesting fact is that

I just thought that what will they ask me in the interview?

I felt that because this scholarships were open

I thought that what will they ask me,

then I felt that they will definitely ask me why I want to go to Germany.

Just like you asked why I went to Germany.

Then I was looking for an explanation for this question

and then I was looking for literature to to identify a professor

in Germany with whom I want to go on.

Then, those days Germans were not publishing in English journals,

but with great difficulty I found

the one article by a professor by name Schrute,

he is from University of Aachen.

Ok.

So, when I went for the interview

promptly they asked me why do you want to go to Germany?

So, then I said I want to work with Professor

Schrute in University of Aachen.

I could see in the face of the people especially in the German

person who was sitting there he was so happy

because he didn't expect me to know

the name of the professor and the place I want to go.

Ok.

Then, I already knew that I am

going to be selected because

from the response because they cant ask technical questions,

because there are 25 scholarships for all branches,

including science, arts, engineering, medicine, everything like that.

Ok.

So, that was an experience.

So, I got selected.

So, then I just went.

And we are all taken by a ship in those days you know.

Yes. We went from Bombay to Marseille and then from Marseille in France.

Ok.

We were driven by bus that to your place,

the way be attended as German language course.

Ok.

4 months.

That was very interesting.

So, then, so you learn German

and its a very intensive training.

So, the nobody these teachers won't speak to you in English at all,

even though they know English.

So, they make you.

So, after 4 months even though I wanted to,

I suggested, I said I want to go to Aachen, University of Aachen.

Because another person from CSR was already selected for Aachen.

Ok.

They sent me to Karlsruhe.

Ok.

Which started out because Karlsruhe Institute was bigger,

more activity and the professor was very well known

Professor Loy (Incoherent).

Later he became the German Minister for Science and Technology.

Ok.

Very famous man.

And of course, he was also the

a director or the president of the university

and he was also president of the directors conference and

president of the scientific and advisory committee to the German 216

government and so on and so forth.

He was a member of the CDU or SPD?

No, not at all.

He was very difficult to see him at the first place.

So, I went to the institute and then

the number two person, Professor Glinde,

who was literally running the institute,

he received me and then they showed me a place, a room, my room

and showed me the library and the lab and here you are.

Ok.

So, they won't tell you anything what do you do

or anything like that, you have to signify out.

So, that was a new experience for me because

in India we everybody here guided you know.

Correct that's correct.

Then everybody is busy, nobody is talking to you

and then nobody told me what are the timings.

So, then I figured out myself coming very early

to find out that the first person used to come at 6 in the morning.

Wow.

To the institute, and the last person was

probably leaving the institute by 9 in the evening.

So, those days Germany was in the process of building up

and they were really working very hard.

Actually, the week was 6 and half days a week.

So, including the Sunday mornings

we used to go out.

So, that was very good for me because there was

alot of work being done.

And then quickly to conclude always then

very important thing has happened that

in month or so, I was

allowed to see the professor.

Then, I told him in my broken German that is

saying sir I want to do Ph.D.,

then he said Mr. Raju Ph.D. it will take 6 years here.

And before you can do Ph.D., you must learn the practice of

geotechnical engineering or foundational engineering.

Then, I told him, sir, I am already on leave and have a job

and they will not give me 6 years leave that won't be possible.

Then, he took pity on me and said I will make an exception.

You find a topic for research

and convince me that the topic is worth

doing research for a Ph.D.

So, the entire responsibility was on me.

So, after 4 months, I informed the Indian that I am now

have a topic for research

and then I have written something together, first

in English and then took somebody’s help to translate it to German.

Then, they said professor is too busy to read that.

So you have to give an seminar.

Ok.

So, the seminar was arranged

and I was and that seminar was to be given in German.

So, it was very tough

and I was also not very clear about the topic.

And then I was reading instead of speaking.

Ok.

And the whole thing took one and half hours.

So, at the end of one and half hours the professor stood up and said

Mr. Raju, a seminar is given for 30 minutes

and then he walked out from the room.

So, I knew that that my seminar was a disaster.

So, I went to my room and then

literally cried because you are in a

strange country, no friends and what to do?

Then, I continued my efforts

and then looking at and the work done earlier in the institute,

the publications and all that, then I said I am

probably now ready that was about 10 months after I have been there.

Meanwhile the scholarship giver,

German Academic Exchange Service,

they said that your scholarship will be extended only

if your professor says that you can work for Ph.D.,

otherwise you have to go back.

Then, then they said even

for our own German students we cannot say that,

so how can we say that you can work for your Ph.D.

Ok. So, so give another seminar.

So, this time of course, I was well prepared.

I was clear about my topic,

and I practiced and recorded on tape recorder.

Those days we used to have these tape recorders Ok.

Several times I practiced

and then I gave a mock seminar to my

other German students who are doing Ph.D.

and then when the final seminar came,

I took 29 minutes 30 seconds

and professor discussed one and half hours on my topic.

And then they said yes.

Now, you can you can do Ph.D.

I think that was one of the most important

things that happened in my life

because now, then in the process of this 1 year, I learnt

how to be independent and how to be self-motivating

and then how to work and how to present things,

prepare slides, and so many other things I learnt.

Then there is a first you have to also learn practice

because we cant give Ph.D. without practiced well.

So, then they immediately associated me with the

consultancy projects of the professor.

So, I used to go to project sites.

And then write, the professor was also doing international projects.

So the reports have to be written in English

and hardly anybody knew English.

So, it was good that I was writing part of

those reports and giving it to the professor.

Ok.

But then to help my thesis work

there is a system of

part time students helping research scholars.

So, I had a research project funding.

Ok.

And with that funding, I used to get part time research,

part time students to help.

Sometimes I had even as many as 6 students.

is being with the experiments, preparing the samples,

running the experiment and then doing the computer analysis

and all that they used to do.

So, to cut the long story short,

I learnt lot of practical aspects

plus I was able to complete my Ph.D. in 3 years 2 months.

So, that is why that was a record for that institute

because everybody before took

as professor said 5 to 6 years.

So, probably I was the 26th or 26 Ph.D. from that institute.

So, that is how it was.

Ok. And then I returned back to Banaras.

Yeah. After my Ph.D.

During this time Germany must have been totally different

from this Germany that we see now

because you know immediately I mean almost

20 years after the war

ended and then there are lot of you know

the division of a, I mean a Germany two two halfs.

Ok. And Berlin blockade and what not.

I think they were particularly you know

the economic situations were very

bad at that time, but how do you compare

the the which is I mean the the Germany

of that time which what you see at present?

Yes.

You know what happened is that

by the time I went it was 64,

I mean 63 December I went and then

so 64 may I was in the institute.

Then, still lots of things were being rebuild,

lot of Germany was destroyed.

Ok.

For example, when we were attending the

German classes in Goethe Institute,

we were put in private houses.

And most private houses did not didn't have even a bath.

They had only a toilet.

Ok.

But bathing you have to go out to a place and then

pay money for it and then take a bath.

It was like that.

But still I think people were happy

because they were quickly forgetting the trauma of the war.

Yeah, of course.

And then there was a lot of progress,

lot of action, people had work

and they were seeing better days,

month by month, year by year, things were getting better.

So, you see human nature is that is all relative

which you are already very prosperous

then you want more prosperity, but if you are having less

than even a little more will make a greater.

So, that way I did not notice that.

Yeah. But

what I also noticed is that once

they are become they become friendly they are very friendly.

Initially, there was a distance,

but later when you are humble and then when you

go and talk to them and interact with them and then

then they will they they were very very good.

So, there were any other Indian students

during that time when you were there?

In the in the in the entire university

if I am not mistaken,

people who were doing Ph.D. there were 2 more students Indians.

I see. So, 3 of us used to meet

and there were couple of undergraduate students,

but we did not have much contact with them.

So, it was a very very that; actually

very interesting, Karlsruhe the population of 250,000.

Ok.

And when my wife joined me in 1965

and she used to move with her saree.

She was the only lady

in the whole of Karlsruhe, an Indian lady

moving around you know in a saree and then

people used to stare at her, even this tram drivers would

you know look at stop and look at it something like that.

The local newspaper wrote an article about her and because

then she started helping in a in

nursery or kindergarten that was the situation.

Ok.

But slowly slowly many people have come

and of course, now everywhere full of people.

So, then you back in BHU how long did you

work before coming into IIT Madras?

I I extent BHU in in 2006, 67

June, and then I was given an

indication that I will be made a reader

immediate after my Ph.D. because probably in those days

I was one of the very few people with the Ph.D. in the.

Ok.

Department of Engineering in BHU.

But for some reason, some getting delay

and I was selected as a reader in

Regional Engineering College Allahabad,

but then the director of the institute would say

no, no, no, you don't go to Allahabad,

we will make you reader here itself,

and all that used to say, but sill things were not happening.

Then, someone told me

that there is an advertisement from IIT Madras.

Ok.

For faculty position.

So, then I said why not I apply.

But actually that advertisement was only for the professor,

but anyway still I applied and then

Dr. A. Ramachandran was the director.

Ok.

So, then the interview also went off very well.

And then I was leaving the room,

Dr. Ramachandran called me back

and he said Dr. Raju how is it that you are still a lecturer, he asked me.

So, I didn't know what to say.

So, I didn't say anything I think I.

So, anyway then I got appointment letter.

Ok. And then I joined IIT Madras.

Ok.

That is how.

Ok.

Probably that was a time when you know there were

large number of German professors.

Yes, yes. Then also the laboratory,

you have all those I mean our lab majority employees.

So, the senior technicians of a Germany very long.

Yes.

because you know almost you know

the conditions in the German city has been

recreated in IIT Madras perhaps because of large number of countries.

Well actually.

Yeah, actually it was a a great change from

Banaras Hindu University to IIT Madras.

Banaras Hindu University also has got a beautiful campus

some 1100 or 1400 acre campus very green,

but Madras was more focused

and then the department also was small.

And then there were not many professors

and and also most of the people were working for their Ph.D.

Ok. Is still working.

But they were doing all the work of

you know building classrooms and establishing laboratories

and you know they did lot of work.

Ok.

So, I was received with some sort of a skepticism because

many were there before me who were

aspiring to become a assistant professor,

but they could not become because they don't have a Ph.D.

and then Ph.D. was getting delayed.

So, they, so they did not say so, so much openly,

but I could see that there was a certain amount of

you know reluctance to welcome me there.

But anyway then I was

fortunate to be able to interact with them

and then also help them with their Ph.D. work to some extent.

And then there was an opportunity do do consulting projects.

Professor Verghese was the head of the department.

So you, okay.

Yeah, I when I came.

Then there was no aid to

solid mechanics in those days, it was only for structures and hydraulics.

2 German staff were there in there

and then this project called fertilizer plant at Tuticorin

and there was a very there was a naughty issue to be sorted off.

So, professor Varghese asked me to handle that

and we successfully did that.

So, that gave more rapo with head of the

department and Indian department.

Ok.

And of course, I maintain contact with the German faculty because

I really liked Germany.

So, Germany it is like a second home for me even today.

So, we had very very good time, excellent friends

and learnt a lot, and

lot of changes had happened

in Germany on the positive side.

Ok.

So, at the among the whole I think it was really

very good and then along with the

activities in the department our consultancy was picking up very well.

Ok.

There was a major initiative with L&T,

L&T did not have a geotechnical engineer in that office

in those days, foundational engineer,

so, I used to go and sit half a day

in their office, but in a week.

So, like that things were getting multiplied in an appropriate.

Sir, institute are with so many German

professors here, do you see a lot of comparison between a

Technical University in Germany and IIT Madras?

Because I think there is some sort of a

you know similarity between the two, a TU and IIT Madras. Ok.

My my understanding is that

mostly the German faculty, the professors,

even though we gave them call them professors senior people,

they were more focused on developing the facilities,

building the laboratories and less of teaching.

Ok. Where as most of the teaching was done by the Indian faculty.

I am not sure whether German faculty took any regular lectures

you got an structure and then maybe there was a

one such. Professor Prem.

Alright. Professor Prem used to take classes.

That's how. That will ok.

But they were not already professors in here.

They became professors subsequently.

Professor Rouvé was in hydraulics,

later he became a professor in Aachen.

Ok.

As a full professor, chair professor.

So, that way it was very good.

And then it was also wonderful experience with Dr. A. Ramachandran.

A very outstanding director.

In 1973, I was the secretary JEE,

all India and at that time you were the

whatever it is called coordinating institute or the

Ok. main institute conducting this.

So, I used to go to him.

I would smilingly and very promptly

simply write on every paper which you take to him SAR.

You would give sir.

So, so so prompt.

It was such a pleasure.

It was really very good timing and it.

Ok.

But I think starting in Civil Engineering Department

I think within a very short time

you had a good name as a good teacher.

Yeah.

And very good consultant

and also a research, a good researcher,

help, trying to help those who are doing their Ph.D. at that time.

So, after establishing yourself as a very

senior consultant and also a good senior faculty.

Yes.

Shift to Ocean Engineering must have been a little,

I don't know how did, how did you change their decision to move on?

No, actually what was happening is that

is Civil Engineering of course, the consulting is also a team work,

everything is a everything is a team work.

We used to work in teams.

And then what happened is that

there was an opening or an interview for a

professor in the Ocean Engineering Centre.

So, the Ocean Engineering Centre was

established at one of the advanced centres.

Yes.

And each IIT got one centre and so IIT Madras got ocean engineering.

And they were not getting people with expertise an ocean engineering

because the ocean engineering was not

globally also not a well-developed subject.

It was just picking up.

So, when the interview was there then I went for the interview there

and then they offered me the professorship there.

Ok.

Then, they also said that this

is a challenge you have to build a new institution

and Professor Mithra from IIT.

Kharagpur.

Kharagpur was there in charge of the Ocean Engineering Centre.

So, but he was already retired.

Ok.

So, then I was joining as next person to him.

So, I I thought that this is a good opportunity to

extend into a new area because

foundational engineering, geotechnical engineering

also you have to deal with coastal and offshore foundations.

Correct, yeah. So, I

I took a decision to take that offer

because I didn't have the offer for the

professorship in civil engineering yet.

Ok.

Probably, it would have come after a year or 2, but anyway.

So, I went there

and then by then Professor Indiresan has come as a director.

Oh yes yes.

So, that is how an ocean engineering he supported that very well.

Then, he visited the Ocean Engineering Centre,

we had some faculty, not many.

Ok.

And, but after the meeting was over,

after he interacted with that

for some reason he looked at me I was not the head.

He told me Professor Raju you please send

me a minutes of this meeting.

I was surprised because you did not ask the

head of the department, he is asking me.

Then, I consulted the head of the department

and then I told him he said, yes, yes please prepare and I

prepared the minutes and showed to him,

and then sent it to Professor Indiresan.

And Professor Mithra retired.

Ok.

Then Professor professor Indiresan asked me

to take over at the head of the Ocean Engineering he said.

Then, we want looking looking some more people

and realize that we should take people

who are already very good in their respective fields

and ask them to reorient themselves to ocean engineering.

That how we did you know, you are a part of that.

One of the probably legendary projects was because

immediately after you came in and also with intension

taking lot of interest in those people who have,

I think you could invent the DST to support a huge project on wave energy.

Yes, yes.

I think it has logical conclusion

of establishing or installing a wave energy caisson off Trivandrum.

Right, right.

Can you can you elaborate on that I think

audience will be very very happy to listen to it because its a it is

you are one of the very successful projects had been.

Yeah.

See, what happened is

we were doing simultaneously building up the Ocean Engineering Centre,

doing the wave basin and covering the wave basin.

And then you know for example, this I want to mention before

going to wave energy project

this is very interesting, then then you know

the normal way of covering a basin of that size in those days was

to put a steel truss with AC sheeting.

Correct.

And then I felt that as a technological institute

we should do something different.

Then our good friend A. Ramakrishna

who was at the time in L&T, ECC.

I talked to him.

He said we should put a

folded plate roof concrete roof

that is it is made to span,

cost on the ground, lifted, and placed in position.

And, but that was not done in the country before.

Ok.

So, we are going to do it for the first time.

Then, I went to Professor Indiresan and said

this is the situation this has not been done before,

but he said are you confident of doing it.

I said yes.

Then, he said immediately please go ahead.

So, then we did that and I think it has come out quite well.

So, that was one instant.

Professor Indiresan also said we are also trying,

so you have to focus on some areas you cannot do everything.

Then, I then I said those days ocean energy was the fashion.

Yeah.

So, people were talking of OTEC,

then that is the ocean thermal energy,

wave energy and tidal energy. Tidal energy,

yeah.

Tidal energy was already quite advanced,

that there were already a plant in France, tidal energy plant.

Then, actually Professor Indiresan used to participate in

Saturday meetings where we had invited different

people from different departments

and we talk used to talk about OTEC and the wave energy.

At the same time the department of ocean development

was started in Government of India.

Yes.

There was also a Department of Non-Conventional Energy

in the ministry already that was before the Ocean Energy Department.

And they sponsored a project for,

but discussion then things like that.

And later ocean development came.

And then we said that we should do something substantial.

Then I was also on the sort of a Ocean Commission,

I was also a member of the Ocean Commission

and also there was a National Institute of Oceanography,

I was also member there on the governing,

I think research council they used to call it.

Ok.

Then we made a proposal for this wave energy

project, then we certainly do a pilot plants.

The best way of conditions,

relatively best way of conditions were available

of the course of Trivandrum, Kovalam.

So we proposed that.

And then they sanctioned that.

So, that is how that project started and then

many people joined, then Ravindran joined as

PSO, Principal Scientific Officer.

I don't remember when he actually joined, but he also.

So, that is how the project started.

And that was also a great experience.

He wanted to build a huge caisson and how to build this and

nobody has done it before,

not only in India anywhere in the world.

There again Mr. Ramakrishna

from L&T, he came forward.

And then our accounts people

they said how can you give the job without without

quotations and there is only single person. Yeah.

Then, I said ok, let us go to site.

So, I took the our accounts people to

Vizhinjam or Kovalam.

Yeah.

And showed him the place and said here we have to

build a something like

how many storage structure, I not exactly remember now,

but huge scale you have to pay you tell me how we can get.

Nobody is prepared to do it.

Even one person we had to persuade.

Ok.

And so they appreciated that.

In fact, they immediately said yes sir.

This is the way we should do it

and then and all of you work very hard.

So, then the project will.

Sir, Professor, Professor Indiresan and

we had a very sort of very close relation.

Yes.

That has definitely resulted in many,

not only projects, but also

for example this building itself.

Yeah, yes. Building that we are sitting

is again you know.

Yeah, actually actually this this

being this ICSR building came much later,

not during Professor Indiresan’s time.

Ok oh I see.

Yeah ok.

And then in Professor Indiresan time

many things happened.

It was very interesting how I think

he was so proactive, so supportive

and probably I think in some way we were the same on the same page.

For example, he made me chairman incident works.

Yes.

So, I wanted to see the entire campus

of course, that anyway we were doing walking.

But I wanted to walk all along the boundary of the

campus to see the boundary all, what is the condition, and then some

people were making holes in the boundary wall and then

trespassing and all that.

So, on Sunday along with

my wife I told her let us walk along the boundary

and suddenly I find Professor Indiresan

and Mrs. Indiresan doing the same thing.

So, we really met at that time.

Ok.

So, that is one thing.

And then the second instance is the SAC building,

the student activity centre.

Ok.

That was being during his time.

That was a silver jubilee occasion and the government gave

extra grants for the student activity centre.

So, next day was the inauguration,

president of India was inaugurating to him.

So, sometime around 9 O’clock

or 9:30 in the evening,

earlier we have seen all the arrangements.

So, I felt that I should see

whether everything is ok now or what is really happening

I reached there at 9:30.

Promptly I find Professor Indiresan and Mrs. Indiresan there.

So, they he was also trying to instruct them.

That every way he was very supportive.

Ok.

And that any paper I take for approval

he would immediately sign

without even reading anything looking at it.

Ok.

So, I asked him sir one day

how are you just approving it even without

reading what I have written.

Sir, there is no need because I know that

you will not ask anything unreasonable.

So, what you are asking.

So, that is. That is a confidence,

that is a confidence he had in you.

He was extremely supportive

and that's how I learned that you have to be very supportive,

later your colleagues,

you have to trust them and you have to empower them.

That is correct.

I think it helped me a lot after subsequent years.

Then, student activity centre was actually planned

subsequently and I think it was

Professor L. N. Ramamurthy’s time when he was the dean,

some planning was done.

Ok.

But then I think Professor Radhakrishna

of Mechanical Engineering also was there I think,

then then I took over as dean.

Ok.

And this was still under construction.

So, we used to visit and then made some changes

and then some developments and all that.

Professor professor Aravindan checked all the designs for that the building.

So, there was a great tradition in IIT Madras,

all of faculty would used to get involved

with a campus development and checking designs and all that.

So, that way it was very good, very.

Then the then I moved in into the

first time into the ICSR building.

Coming back to ocean engineering, I think

we had two phases of German assistance.

I think this has also been you know

during your time you know both these

assistance programmes were planned.

Yeah.

And of course, Professor Indiresan was very very supportive.

I think many in the campus perhaps

were not very happy that ocean engineering is

you know getting a lot of disability and also

a development of funds, whether it is

you know Government of India funds

or the the the assistance from Germany.

How were you able to manage the German assistance.

Actually. In fact, of all the problems.

Actually what happened was that

you know whenever these

Germans used to come

and especially from the German agency for development,

they used to visit different places

and I think they also visited ocean engineering

and I used to interact with them.

Yeah.

So, I told them that this is a new area

and Germany is also developing in this area

and we should get assistance from Germany,

but then they said that the programme of assistance is closed.

At that time they were only doing exchange of faculty.

So, some some faculty members were selected

you know to go to Germany and then

for 2 months, 3 months like that.

But then finally, they I have I convinced them

there is is you know just because

you have some time limitations you know that

Ocean Engineering Centre should not be denied

getting assistance because without that it would be very difficult.

So, because you know random wave

and wave generators for the basin and

all that it would have been very difficult for us.

And then they agreed and then they sent

a German professor from Berlin to visit us.

He came and the he gave a report he supported it

and then then finally, they agreed to fund this project hereby.

So, I think that was a very useful inputs that we got from there

and I think as far as

I know probably subsequently NSTL must have built some of

these random wave facilities and all that,

but at that time probably we were the only institute.

So, these are the.

In fact, even in Germany they were

not having a similar facility.

No. So, that was the magnanimity

of the German assistance.

That was the way we were successful.

And I think Professor Indiresan also strongly supported that.

During his period only we got the assistance.

Sir, during your time as dean, ICSR you know

I think the PIs,

coordinators were actually liberated from lot of gangly (incoherent) holes.

Yes.

The in front of the work.

Yes, yes.

I think lot of changes where have been brought in

and as you used to say that the manager should be

that should not be a power centre.

Should be a service centre.

I think that type of a culture you should

probably instill in some of the offices here.

Yes.

That was a great change.

How do you bring about, one was that

visited Trivandrum is one thing that has changed their attitude,

but you know new things which from here itself you could change.

See, when I joined IIT Madras

and that was in 1970,

then ICSR was not yet started at that time.

I think it came later, couple of years later 73 or so.

Then you know if you get a project sponsor project,

if if you want to take a scientific officer or a someone into the project,

the registrar told me that it will take an year,

the process, because we have to advertise

in the papers and then you know whatever.

It's a very long.

You know I was shocked. How can you

wait for an year to start a project.

So, anyway, then ICSR started and then they were

slowly improving the processes and then,

but still there was

it was taking some time, couple of months to recruit.

And I said what is there in recruiting a project officer.

Finally, it should be the choice of the principal investigate, PI.

So, I made a proposal these an ICSR committee, I made a proposal

that we will have a standing committee

for recruitment of the project officer,

so which will meet every Friday and Saturday.

And when in this standing committee then of course,

the PI will be also a member

and the consult head of the department may be

somebody could be a member.

So, we will give the and then

this is sort of like a walk in interview sort of a thing.

Even without advertisement people can apply or whatever they.

Ok. And then

every week we will have this standing committee meeting.

So, therefore, if somebody finds a person on a Monday,

by Saturday the appointment letter would be given

or even Friday,

Saturday appointment letter would be given

because it is only the matter of just.

Only only condition is that was he should not

be related to you and you should be qualified.

You should have minimum qualifications.

That was acceptant.

I think I should say also Professor N. V. C. Swamy

who was the director at that time

he also supported us to have this processes.

And then people were

happy and they said we will trust people,

some people may misuse, but that trust, but doesn't matter.

So, but that is better to trust.

But I must say that that time when I took over

our consulting value was about a crore

in those days, now it must be 100 crores or whatever it is.

In 5 years in it it increased by 5 times.

So, 1 crore became 5 crores in 5 years

that is a phenomenal growth.

Then, sponsor research also grew maybe

3 times or something like that.

I don't remember the figure.

And also that was a very nice experience. We had good people.

And I think it worked well.

It worked well. It worked well.

You had a very you know enormous influence

of lot of youngsters ofcourse

I am also one of them.

Many many people you know you

mentored up later on you know they are

grown in in in various areas and

how did you inculcate this culture or

supporting and trusting people like

you have a goal and you know you mentor people,

so that you know we can reach

the goal.

That that is set for yourself.

You know what I learnt from my

team my superiors or

people who mentored me was that most

important thing is trust.

And trust in empowerment,

you have to trust then you have to empower people

and that's what we did and it worked very well.

So, so therefore, I what I learnt

from my mentors, I just passed it down.

And so I already gave you the examples of Dr. A Ramachandran

and Professor Indiresan and

you know what they taught us how to go about it.

So, therefore, it was quite easy and then

then they grew afterwards by their own merit of course

and by the ofcourse, team work.

Team work are also very important.

You know you remember when we did all these

in both consulting projects and then

sponsored projects we were such big teams.

Ok. I remember that

when we were doing consulting then

doing the instrumentation part you did the instrumented,

one jetty in Paradip

I remember that very path breaking studies.

Yes. And Aravindan and

Meher Prasad and you know Velu, Gandhi.

So, this is why it was such a wonderful thing and also

number of project officers, I remember I think

maximum number we had only about 12 or so in those days.

Ok. It's all

it I think it's all teamwork and the

merit of the people by themselves.

Most people are really good.

Even today I am seeing it. Youngsters

you put them in the right place and then tell them how to go about

and then encourage them, they will learn very fast.

So, we have lot of talent in this country.

But yesterday night I was

thinking about this Paradip Port project that we have done.

Yes.

Even today I can't believe a load cell which has been put

in the soil for several months.

Yes.

Worked very well after you know we dug up everything and then

again did the measurements.

Oh really.

I did the, in fact, the load cell were designed by us,

everything was done by us.

Yes of course.

And it it it I think we went there after the

dredging was over and then about 6 months,

it took almost 6 months,

Velu and myself went and. Yes.

Our heart was beating very fast to find out

you know whether it is going to work or not because otherwise

6 months effort has already lost.

Sure, sure.

those working so well.

You should get, yeah

it has it could get exactly the type of

predicted load that was coming onto the drivers;

is it is it is a wonderful experience.

And these are all you know

many people are not even attempted to do such

such work anywhere in the world perhaps

that is why it has become an ISD publication.

Right.

See, it is a first of all

recognizing that there is a need to;

first of all recognizing that that particular system will

work in a particular way

that was the one part.

Then afterwards you have some

youngsters I think do do is

structural analysis or whatever analysis

appropriate analysis to prove it through analysis.

But finally, to prove it through measurements,

so several roads.

So, initial identification maybe I I could see is the the concept.

Then analysis was I think done by Sundaravalli Velu, this

structural analysis and then you pioneer at the

instrumentation part and did that that is

and that is how it should be.

It's always team work.

Sir, a few words about NIOT because that is again

you had a major role in bringing NIOT to

Chennai to IIT Madras and it has so it has brought

much more perhaps that.

Budget of NIOT is at least 2 to 3

times not that that was all. Right.

What was your?

Yeah.

See, it was like this that I was on the Ocean

Commission as a member

and Professor P. Rama Rao became secretary DST

as well as the secretary of DOD ocean development.

And we used to discuss

in various meetings and all that,

and then during the discussions it came on saying that

ocean development, Department of Ocean Development

needs an institution of of its own funded by them.

Much beyond the Ocean Engineering Centre.

Ocean Engineering Centre was of course,

doing this wave energy project and all that.

Correct, correct.

So, then then academic was decided to start NIOT

and I told Professor Rama Rao they desperate to start

NIOT is to locate it on campus

and I was I was also a dean ICSR.

So, we said we will put one extra floor.

Ok.

On the ICSR building

and you please pay for that that that floor

and then he immediately accepted it

and Professor Swamy also accepted the proposal.

And that is how NIOT started in our campus.

And then, then naturally they grew

to a particular size that this space was no more adequate.

Ok.

Then they moved out and they found land and

then of course, Ravindran has taken it

forward as a director of NIOT.

So, that is how.

So, that that was a good move.

Then such experiences like would replicate

later more effectively in Delhi.

Ok.

That of co-locating the facilities with an institution.

In fact, that is my next question.

From IIT Madras after you know

you went as director of IIT Delhi.

Yes.

And you had a full term there.

Of course, definitely when somebody goes

from one institute to another institute,

best practices of the previous institute will be

I will try to replicate in in the new institute because through this.

Yes.

An established institute of the. How did the faculty of IIT Delhi.

Yeah.

Receive the the changes that you try to bring about

or the best practices that you have you know

from Madras, IIT Madras you you try to

implement it with an IIT Delhi.

What was the type of reaction from

you tackled the students as well as the staffs?

You know first I would say that

I would I would never thought that I would

go to actually Delhi I mean to lecture.

This is not in my thinking or whatever it was.

At that, by the time I was

selected at IIT Delhi I I was dean ICSR

and STS as dean I used to appreciate when.

Yeah.

director was out of station.

So, then I think when I was invited,

those days you cannot apply for a directorship.

Today I think people can apply.

Then anyways, nominations were there, I think

I don't know who all nominated, but definitely Professor Indiresan

through his channels he he

he nominated me and then

then invited for an interview and of course,

there it went very well, the interview went very well.

Then, I received this invitation to at IIT Delhi.

Then, after going there obviously,

you have all the experiences at IIT Madras of

working in the Civil Engineering Department,

Ocean Engineering Centre,

chairman, Estate and Works, which I did and then dean ICSR.

So, all these things were practically you know. Then

first thing I started was to visit all the departments

and then and centres and meet all of them.

Systematically, first meet the faculty, then meet

the staff, and meet the research students

and go around the labs and see what is.

Then go around the hostels because

that was my hobby to walk,

so I used to, I have seen every nook and corner of the campus.

Then quickly realized that

there is a backlog of faculty selections.

And so simple things, then then we immediately

went through the process of faculty selections.

You know generally nowadays maybe

things have changed, but in those days

you call all the faculty, interviews will run from morning to evening,

say 9 O’clock to evening 5 O’clock or 6 O’clock, they won't tell

when your turn will come.

So, people are just waiting from 9 to 6, some of them.

As I I I just thought about it and then said

why not we give them a time slot.

So, everybody was given a time slot of 15-20 minutes.

So, they exactly know when they are

required to be there, otherwise.

Such small things made a huge impact

going to the department and talking

with the faculty in detail and asking

in the with youngsters and hearing patiently what they have to say.

You know every semester I registered every department and centre

and centre facilities,

because you know that what

and how to get rid of obsolete equipment

because at least when I went there

and we may be true with most institutions even today

and everywhere we find lot of obsolete

equipment occupying space.

So, then I said why is it lying here

and then this administration will say that

you cant write off easily, there is a big

procedures for that and all that.

Then, I said I want a very quick coalition and finally,

I told the engineering unit

they used to have cement godowns,

I said why is this godown here such a huge godown.

No sir, we supply cement because

they may not bring quality cement.

I said forget about it.

Now, there is enough quality cement available in the market.

Maybe in olden days it was different.

So, I emptied the cement godown

and said shift everything which is

not functional into the godown.

Ok, ok.

So, 30 percent of the space

which was occupied by obsolete equipment were became free.

So, suddenly imagine that you we have so much

space which is unutilized becomes useful.

So, all those things made people happy

and they cooperated very well.

There are so many issues that will crop up,

we have to think out of the box.

Ok. So, for example, the campus was not green enough

compared to Madras campus.

So, then I told them my board in first meeting

we will plant a 1000 trees every year

on the Delhi campus.

Earlier were doing maybe 100 trees a year.

And then main the board members plant trees,

started with them with the chairman of the board.

And a small committee and

told them I want your help,

we need to plant 1000 trees.

So, they planted 2200 trees in the first year.

So, then it became the norm, 2200 is the norm.

So, 5 years I think they planted about

11000 trees or something like that.

Same thing you know with bathrooms, hostels,

if you go to the kitchen you will find

that tube lights are not working,

fan is not working, exhaust fan is not there, it's all

you know, then with a vengeance you get all those

things renovated and things like that.

So, that will win a lot of friends

because people who are working in the kitchen they are happy

then then once they are happy,

they treat the students well, they cook better.

So, like that and then construction because we said

we had 2400 students

when I went in 1995 and 2200 employees

20 acres of land,

so un utilization.

So, I told them that we should

aim to double the student strength

in my period of 5 years.

So, then you need more hostel rooms.

So, I asked the engineering unit how are you building.

So, they said that building 50 rooms,

so of course, for the government hostel

for the last 2 and half years.

I said that is too slow.

We need something different.

Then, we have planned bigger hostels and then

got the bigger builders and finally,

with our friends help got L&T to do hostels.

And they build very fast.

We were building them you know.

Sometimes one has to look at the minor things,

using my experience you know

in addition to this planting saplings and trees

I used to find the cattle on campus.

Late nights, not during the day.

See, what the neighboring villages were doing,

they will connive with the security

and though we have cattle traps

in the night they will put a plank on that

and drive the cattle.

And take them away in the morning.

So, I used to come sometimes

from the late flights to the campus and see the cattle there.

So, then I told the security officer, this is very

serious and I don't want to see any cattle on campus.

Then that made a huge difference because

without cattle all the plants started growing themselves.

Ok.

That was one important thing.

The same thing also was with the toilets,

that they were not in a proper condition and then.

So, I I literally took

the institute engineer with me and then I said if

they are not fixed within the next 2 weeks,

so I will start cleaning them and then

you may not have any option to join me in doing so.

So, that worked and then they improved.

But again they go back.

So, in there were in many ways academically

also recruiting faculty in you know,

and some of the innovations we did was that

new faculty were informed immediately

after the selection, after the interview itself.

Ok.

See earlier people will be waiting

and sitting in the admissions office to find out

have I got selected, am I promoted and all that.

I told the heads of the departments

at the end of the day itself you just

call them and tell them that they are already selected

and that made a difference

because then they are not,

then they are happy and they are join you and similarly with

people who are promoted also

without waiting for the registrar to send formal letters,

I used to send letters to them,

congratulation letters saying that

I am happy to inform you and that you are being elevated.

So, and so and then the formal letter will found.

So, all those small small things I think

motivated people well.

Sir, this is my last question.

Yeah. Looking back,

what do you think is your most unique

contribution to IIT Madras?

I know it will be very difficult because

large number of contributions

that you gave to research ofcourse,

what do you think is the most unique,

a single contribution to IIT?

You mean to say that the most

most important thing in my view?

In your view, yes.

What I what what I feel is that

I mean on the whole being open minded

and yeah they said already

mutual trust and common good and such things,

they were helped.

Certainly, I think Ocean Engineering Centre

is certainly a very good

you know example of creating a great facility.

Probably, one of the best of its kind in this part of the world,

that is one one one contribution.

And I think also

the number of colleagues who have really

done well and reach in

to higher levels and then to higher contributions.

So, I would say human resource I will put first;

you know what we have been able to create.

Then, establishing the facilities,

than building you know that create you know,

even I feel that what we have achieved together

and the consultancy friends and

sponsor research fund also is quite substantial.

Nothing when the wave project,

wave energy project was given

probably at that time that was the biggest projects.

Sir, in conclusion would you like to

because this will be viewed by many people.

Yes.

This is a part of an audio book

on IIT Madras that was published by Heritage Centre.

Yeah.

Do you have any concluding remarks to make?

I think I have already said that thing in the previous,

last point I think what I said and I think.

what I I have I have experienced is

that human tendencies to think

that what we got is taken for granted

and what we did not get looks very big.

Ok.

You know and then we always expect things to

happen faster than what they happen.

But I think the wisdom lies in

accepting things as they are and then

trying to improve and

focus on teamwork and then mutual mutual benefits,

and and the common good as I said already.

And also finally, at the good of the nation,

I mean that should be uppermost in our mind.

Sir, one one thing which I did not

ask you it's about a about your 3 children.

Yes.

I think you should tell something about them.

Ok. Yeah.

Actually, it made a great difference for

them to grow up in the campus.

Really, I think

you know, one of the important

things for us as seniors is to get faculty.

So, I used to tell the people

if you join as the faculty you have

all the freedom, number one.

And your children will get good education

and carrier and which are both

you know very important.

Ok.

So, that way we were fortunate that

we have 3 children, son and 2 daughters.

Son and elder daughter both did undergraduate

IIT Madras which is quite thing

and this the younger one did masters in Mathematics at IIT

and all of them are doing well.

So, I think definitely the campus education in the

campus living has made a

significant contribution for their for their growth.

And also, the impact the value systems

that we follow in the campus.

And I think it has been a great experience.

So, I can't think of a better place for children to grow.

Yeah, yes, yes

A campus like IIT Madras.

Thank you very much sir.

I think.

Thank you thank you Chandy.

Time we give together.

Yeah, it's it is so so nice that after a long time

we are sitting and then talking.

Yeah, we will continue to keep in touch.

Yeah, sure.

Thank you and all the best to you and your family.

Thank you. Thank you and bye.

We have with us Professor Sienecke who was one of the

founding professors of IIT Madras. Welcome sir.

Thank you. So, when was your first visit to IIT Madras?

It was around the 1st July of the year 1963.

Oh, You are you you really came very early in the .

We we we came we came by boat from Genova to

Bombay. Ok.

Then, we were received by

some government persons. We were taken,

we were taken into the railway over the night,

and we have reached; we have reached here

in the morning. On the early in the morning and

all the guests, all the colleagues of, they came to the airport.

Now, they came to the railway station. Railway station.

And we had a series of cars you know.

Going from the railway station here.

So, we have been the first family, wife and two children

and myself to go into a ready-made house, 2nd crossroad.

Ok. Even the beds were prepared.

Ok. And all the colleagues, they had to live in town for some years.

Ok. You know.

So, we were the

first family you know starting here,

fresh it was very surprising, and the worst was there were some,

some animals you know climbing up like this you know.

I thought they were snakes you know. Lizards.

Geckos ye snakes, small snakes geckos you know. Geckos yes.

Geckos were surprising. And next morning around 9 o'clock

Professor Venkatarao came to our house. Ok.

With this cars, and I was called to sit in his car.

So, he was you know he was

taking me over to his department. Department.

No, no breakfast, I had to come. Ok.

To his department and till the end, he was my father here.

Ok yes. You know he was very old, very old,

he was my father here like my father

because in the second year,

I had some success and you know the main aim was

to introduce German methods. Ok.

That means the education should be more practical. Yes.

So, I started to develop experiments for the students.

40 experiments within 2 years

Oh. And each of them had to go through the experiments you know.

This was my main topic.

But the assistant professor didn't liked it.

Ok. Because I try to engage

them you know to supervise, they didn't like

so, they didn't like

because they only kept to make paperwork.

Ok. They had textbooks and put the results into the,

Board And so on.

They did not like me.

They told they put a rour in the in the in the town.

Ok. Saying we have got a young boy from Germany and

he calls himself professor. Ok.

Venkatarao. Come on boy, come on boy. Yeah ok.

Take your take your hair and do not mention, go on.

Ok. You are good like a father you know.

Yes. so, in fact Professor Venkatarao was the He was great.

Head of the Department for a very long-time .

He was great. He went to Africa then. Yes.

So, who were all the other German professors

who worked with you at the time?

Professor Lutz. Lutz.

He came shortly after me so.

Steam machines. Ok.

He was from Damstra.

Then Heitland. He came from Caltech.

And, Scheer he was here

long time earlier. Mechanical engineering

A tall fellow, he was he leaving

IIT later and went to Ethiopia.

And he got married there also.

So, I met him a few years ago,

he was spending the the largest portion

of his life in Ethiopia.

Ok. So, a very experienced you know worker.

Then, Doctor Koch in physics.

you know running the workshop,

Dr. Klein, he was in charge of languages, I guess.

I mean it was a a group of very different persons.

Ok. Very different you know.

We were the only young family.

I was only 30. Ok.

But it worked,

it worked no problem and from the beginning,

I had friends in in Germany. Trainees

who came to my institute in Germany to be trained,

even to do do their doctorate work. It was. Yes yes

Dr. Garud you know, he did his doctorate work

in my department and I also helped him.

Dr. Banerjee also Yes.

was here. So, when I came here

the first Sunday, I went to Adyar,

and I found the family of Padmanabhan.

Ok. Padmanabhan, I found his family on the first weekend

imagine, and from that time,

I visited this family nearly every week once.

Ok. Even now, I saw his sister Vasantha.

Ok. He returned to Germany; he worked for IBM.

Yes. Precision mechanic was his subject.

So, this was you know. Amazingly

I came in contact with those trainees,

and they took me over,

invited my wife and then,

they told me why don't you come with us?

So, I was I had my doctorate work ready so, I was open

to leave the Institute in Brunswick

and so, I decided to go. Ok.

So, I went to Bonn, I recontract, and waited and then,

Professor Klaus came, he came to see the trainees. Ok.

And they introduced me to Professor Klaus.

He was a project leader. Ok.

And they told him, my dear professor,

this is the chap who will go with us to Madras.

Then, he replied, which fool has influenced you to go over there?

Which fool? It was a joke you know. Yeah.

But this was this kind of joking.

So, you know I was shifted and prepared to go here.

Ok. By those friends.

Good. When I, when I came back to

Germany 2 years later, some of them were still there.

So, I was received again, and

I was honored saying 'foreign return'.

Ok. That means, he comes back,

he has a new car, he is rich now you know.

Foreign return. Foreign return.

You know that word?

Professor Mayer’s also came from Brunswick?

He came. Much later.

Yeah, yeah he came after me. Ok.

Shortly after, yeah yeah, he was from Brunswick

and he was here for a long time.

So, you have been coming here regularly,

how do you feel that IIT has progressed?

Now, you know I came here in; I came here in 18

1989, 91, 93, 2009, 2013, I guess in 2017 now.

You know you can judge about

development only after having a distance.

A distance of looking at it and knowing so, this time

I had a distance of 4 years. Ok.

And I found it has developed well.

It has been it has become larger and more students

and more whatever complex devices. I am really

happy about this development,

and I think you know after the first two years here,

it was declared that there had been four IIT’s.

Yes. This was number 1.

Number 1. And I hope this is still number 1.

It is number 1 in 2016. Yeah, Yeah.

Among all the 20 IIT’s.

Yeah, it is number 1 among the 23 IIT’s,

among all the colleges in the country

and the we hope to keep that number one in 2017.

It it was declared number 1 in 2016

and we hope to get it in 2017 also.

Ok. You know I am I am in a position to support India you know

because this is part part of my home,

it is in your home country

so, I like it as it is now,

but nobody will believe this is is this is

institution in India because

in the opinion of the majority of European,

India is a lousy country, you know.

Full of trouble and poverty and so on,

misusing girls you know in the newspaper. Newspaper, yes sir.

So, they won't believe,

but I I am convinced it is a country

where you have proper developments like this

and I will defend it, I will defend it

and say this is my truth about the country.

So, how were the classes held? What was the starting time?

Starting time? Yeah, for the classes?

I started to begin the to install equipment. Ok.

You know you had the buildings, empty rooms, the equipment

from Germany was in the store,

nobody had opened the boxes. Nobody.

So, I put them out, started to have early experiments,

then I had a large room to be installed with tables

and switching boards and whatever.

So, I had to go to the Director.

And ask him how should we do it, this way, this way,

he would always say no, no. This was his answer: no.

So, I left him and did it in my way. That means,

I had a long long room. Ok.

And I had two chambers, two chambers here, here

two of them and had the switching board above,

had the tables in the wall

and those tables were made of Bangkok Teak.

Oh. You cannot afford now.

Yes, we cannot afford. You have to buy Bangkok Teak.

Ok. Is Bangkok is in the next country?

Yeah Thailand, it is in Thailand.

Thailand no. Yeah.

No Thailand, Bangkok is in Thailand.

Marvelous, it they were built in the workshop here.

So, the workshop was run by an

an elderly people also, he also

like he was like my father. So, once I went to him

to have something and it was delayed.

He tried to help me and explained

you know boy like that you know.

You my boy, I must apology you

for not you know getting ready,

I did not know what is the word apology.

ok. Apologize .

Yeah. Apologize those you know old people,

there were like my father, it was so nice you know,

I was the youngest here, I was active and then,

this laboratory was ready, let us say 10 tables you know

2, 4, 6 and 10

ready-made and we we covered the the cables with with

thick face plywood. All were expensive.

So, then I called the Director, what happened?

All my mechanic would come. They would come,

they would they would hide themselves

behind the pillar you know. Waiting, waiting, waiting,

the Director came in looking at this this

room he never came back. He never came back. Came back.

So, we had to accept it, the it was against his own plans. Ok good.

He never came back.

So, do you recollect any of the Indian professors

at that time who joined along with you?

Remember you mean?

Other other Indian professors

who joined the electrical department?

Venkata, G. V. K. Murthy.

Oh, V. G. K. Murthy yes. Was in a nice, he was in

measurement technology. Yes.

He was very polite and very good staff .

Achyuthan was bad. Achyuthan.

Achyuthan was arrogant. Ok.

Really, he did not like me at all. Yeah.

So, the many of them. Banerjee was there?

Banerjee was there. And Narayan Rao?

Narayan rao. He did his PhD in high voltage

from Erlangen, I think.

V.G.K. Murthy was a very polite person I must say.

Ok. In your first visit, how long you were here?

I only stayed here for 2 years. 2 years ok.

But you know the appreciation of I got later during the visits.

Ok. Imagine, I came here in the year 89,

I brought my daughter with me.

My daughter was a linguist, a language

Specialist. Expert

in English and French.

she worked for the European Union in Luxembourg

in the German department.

And I took her to India for three weeks each.

We have been in Delhi and Bombay, in Nagpur and here and so on

and she she put lectures on

the aim on the purpose of the European Union.

In the age of 30 you know. Ok.

Young girl playing world policy

because Doctor Rao told me

why do not you take your daughter she would be an expert.

So, I she did , she had she posed lectures about

the European union in many places and without an official order.

It was a private talk you know with Yes.

over headphones and everybody clapped you know.

They liked it; they liked the way

how she did it, it was really great.

My daughter was number 1, I was number 2.

Ok. She was so open minded and she in all the places,

she was attracted by the by the girls you know. Ok.

She was you know among the girls

and they they took her into the girls hostel.

Oh Ok. I could; I could never enter you know.

Ok. But she she would see everything you know,

all the mess inside you know.

It was so nice to have her with me. So, when she came back,

She remembered old old times when she was here when you are young?

Did she remember? Yeah yeah.

All; all time here. She she came here in she was 4 years old.

Ok. 59, 63 yeah 4 years.

Ok. And she was so clever. Imagine

in the year 65, she was as 5 years old you know

and once, we went to Vasantha’s house in Urur, Adyar. Ok.

ok. We came there in the afternoon after the lunch

so, we came into the court behind the house and

there were some leftovers from the, from the lunch

so, what she declared: aunty Laxmi, you your house is dirty.

You must wash the crockery. Ok .

In the year of 5 you know imagine. Yes.

So, proud and safe and yes aunty Laxmi, she is right you know,

she is right yes, she is about my style somehow.

So, when you came in 1963, was there this much amount of trees

or the institute was so many trees were there or not so many?

Imagine it was still, it was unique in in in India of course,

I saw I I see for talk somebody has invited me there,

but you know this a combination of

living areas and institute and wildlife,

it is unique you know

even according to to European measures,

this is the paradise. My opinion you know. Yes.

It is a paradise in India all together,

living area, hostels, institutes nobody will believe this

in Germany. Nobody believe.

So, how many students were there in the class at the time?

There was a convocation in 64.

The first group of, batch of engineering you know.

I mean leaving the school 50 or 100 like that you know. Ok

No, when you are teaching the students,

how many students in your class?

It was a the section for on high frequency communication. Ok.

So, my lessons were for 20 people. 20 people.

Like this and I had four diploma works conducting the work. yeah.

And so, four experts decided to be with me, and

this was something new for the remaining teachers

and I had because I came from a television in Brunswick,

I had talks in in other schools in in in Madras

about the basic theory of colors you know.

The color television you you mix three elementary colors

red, blue, yellow whatever

and you then create any kind of shade

so, I explain this people here, the theory of mixing colors.

If you you know in the 65 this was new, there was no

there was no, no color television at all.

No color television in in Europe,

it was after 70 only,

it was something new even for other schools also.

So, the institute had a television laboratory at that time?

Here? Yeah,

No, no. No.

Not there. Not even no receiver here.

Ok. In Germany, we had a close relation to RCA.

Ok. In America and the RCA, they have built the first color tubes

you know huge devices like this you know, like this,

the first receivers were the tube

was flowing up and there was a mirror.

So, you should look at the mirror and down. Ok.

Very complex device.

So, this was in the year 65, this was new.

The installation of this was only later.

And I, I learnt the technology of color television

in in in in my doctorates work. So, like just to have talks,

it was nice to have, it was nice

to have something special you know

which was new, but the real,

my real basic education was in Siemens then.

Siemens. You know I joined Siemens in the year 50, 60 65

I had a good start and the the the best

education here was the language.

You know I even now, after 10 days, I start thinking

and and and sleeping and dreaming in English. English.

But how how difficult it was it was when you came from

Germany to teach in English? It was not difficult.

No, Yeah.

I was open enough. Ok.

So, the language now you know I came to Siemens,

it was the beginning of computer science.

So, all my colleagues there were educated for

you know ordinary electrical material, but not for. Computer Sciences.

To build large computers you have to speed up. Yes.

So, it is a question of the transmitting pulses, transmitting

electromagnetic waves along printed lines.

So, this was new for everybody.

But I I came from communication you know. Communication so you

I was prepared you know to to have a multilayer

boards and have really transmission of pulses

and not only 1’s and 0’s, there was a difference.

So, this I learnt in in the University of and then, my language.

I was very good in English, and this helped me a lot because

I had to go to America very often to meet other companies.

When I came there, Motorola, other companies my boss was with me

my boss was at my side so, he would talk.

When I came alone, I would talk,

and they like they liked me you know to be the guest.

Once I had to step down in Zurich

to change the plane and a chap from Motorola came from London

and he asked me where are you going?

Yes, I am going to we are going to

Phoenix, Arizona, he got pale,

and declared you are known as a tough negotiator.

Be careful he is coming again. He knows it.

This fellow he knows it not only 1’s and 0’s.

It was such a close relation

when I came the big shots came to talk to me

because I knew the details you know,

I was from communication and

once I asked him can't you

show me your equipment to test these devices you know,

can't you show me your automated testers.

So, they would look around like this and like this, you can go.

So, I was allowed to go to the lab and see it. See.

And then, I I built my own testers at home. Oh Excellent.

After learning how to do it and my own testers

were much better than those you know?

This is the way to be trusted. Ok.

So. When companies who work together,

you have to be open. Yes, I understand.

In both directions otherwise,

it is it not true. This I learnt

because it is through the language you know,

I was prepared to declare everything precisely.

So, after you went back to Brunswick, you rejoined the University of

Brunswick? No, no. No. I went to Siemens.

Oh you didn't join the.. Directly

No, it was over. It was over. It was over. Ok.

So, apart from you, who else came from Brunswick?

Meyer. Meyer, only two of you?

I I I knew Meyer from many years. Yes,

I I also know Professor Meyer . You know.

In fact, when I went to Brunswick, I stayed in his house for 1 day. Oh really?

Yes. Oh oh.

So. Now, he lived close to Hanover.

Yes. He was working in another school there

I know. he he was working in Hanover.

Yeah. As a Emeritus Professor.

So, how how was life in the evenings? Here?

Even after. you could you you have shadowed trees

from the beginning, you could you could walk.

The children they played in the in the court behind the house.

It was there, there was a tree with shadows.

They played in the sand, no infection, nothing.

You know at home, what about your how can you.

When we left Germany in the 60s,

many friends came to the railway station.

How can you be so cruel and take your small kids to India.

Oh, how can you, nothing happened. Nothing happened.

Nothing happened. There was no danger. Ok.

No, what I wanted to ask was

whether the German professors were together, you were

having some kind of an activity together at the time?

You know Rouvé was there. His wife was intelligent somehow.

And he also came I think he came from near East to Madras.

So, he was, he had worked in other countries you know before,

he was an experience you know worker for outside countries.

Rouvé was there and, but you know we we we stick to friends

outside of the IIT. Ok.

Vasanta for example, I have met her some days ago.

And we were invited to to my co-workers, there is Chester in Velachery. Yes.

He was my assistant, my foreman was Rangachari.

Ok. And he was relative of Sampath.

So, the problem was Rangachari liked me,

Sampath didn't like me. Ok.

But Rangachari was supporting me.

You got huh? Yes, I understood.

He was supporting me.

He came to Germany for training for some some months

and he came to my house also. So, these two years

they have opened my mind. Ok.

You know I have been travelling

to other countries. I have been travelling to Syria and Iran.

I came here also to see schools

to see schools in Delhi and Bombay

and Nagpur especially in Rajkot.

So, because I knew Kathiawar is a remote province

so, how to go to Rajkot, so, the message was this.

I would call in Nagpur, dear Garu (incoherent) Yes.

can't you help me, have you got a friend in Rajkot

who could was invite me. Let me think.

After two days calling back,

I talk to Balakrishna, you should come. Ok.

That's all. That's all.

This was the invitation on many places like this so, I came.

I had to go by plane from Bombay, but on that day, no flight was going.

So, what to do? I went out of the airport, domestic airport

and asked the taxi drivers how to go.

They put me to another airport in Bombay,

I used to drop the ticket,

bought a new ticket and flew over the ocean

in two hours to Rajkot. Ok.

Sitting between the propellers like this. Ok.

We landed, nobody to receive us

so, we rushed into the institute,

rushed up into the main hall,

seven professors were waiting there,

pale face telling me you should not be here.

There has been no plane today. Ok.

And then you are an experienced traveler to find another plane.

So, this was this I learnt this you know, I have been in in Pakistan also. Oh.

To see schools and to study culture. I have been in Islamabad.

And in Taxila and in Lahore of course also.

Placing electra, living in a guest house and being guided for culture

and in Islamabad, it was like that.

You cannot imagine I was in Islamabad and Tehran and

Avas in the south of Iran. So, did you visit your house again

in second cross road when you this time? Yeah, with my daughter I visited you know.

Let me explain this. A professor was taking me from the airport

and then, he drop me, within half an hour I will pick you up,

we will have dinner together. So, then, in the car, driving

what would you like to eat this and this and this,

shall we go to the hotel?

No, we will go home, we will go to my home.

So, a a door of this side was kept open,

if the car was shifted in the door was closed from the street,

lady was waiting, they had been in England for many years

so, I was taken in. There was table like white table.

And said if you now we should have the tappas first on the table here,

I told him we shall have the tappas on the ground as you take it usually.

So. So, I had to put on the ground.

Ok. Having tappas.

Then, I managed to stand up again like this. Ok.

And they came where should have the main dish at the table

in the next room, I told we should have the main dish again

on the ground. Ground ok.

So, from day one, you are the Tamilian, you you had to.

You know one has; one has to observe certain rules but.

Yes. This was the the first experience. You know

to eat like a Muslim people in. People here in Tamil Nadu.

The first experience. Yes.

It was so good. Ok.

In the morning, they they they took me from the guest house

say at 8 o'clock 8:30, they declared

and now, we shall have first,

we should have some coffee and tea,

I told we shall go to the to the lecture hall immediately

because we should not keep the

young people waiting. Student waiting.

So, it was deviating from the normal vote

you know, but they also accepted it

because it was; it was good. Yes.

These young people were my guests you know.

If you come in to those countries,

you are a unique surprise you know for people. Yes.

If the only one who ever comes to Avas in the South far South,

you have the famous David, a Saint who was supporting the rulers,

he was giving good advices, David in the lions bit.

Once another nobleman, he would declare David is a bad man

so, he was put into the lion’s pit, but the lions would

continue sleeping and go on. They would not eat him.

Ok. Because he was a good man. And that is this for I was put in lion pit.

Immediately, it was destroyed. David the advisor. Yes.

Very far south and this was before the war you know Syria was

in peace and Iran also, it was in the 90’s.

So, it was no not dangerous as it is now. When you were in here during 63 to 65?

60. Yeah.

Did you go anywhere in within India? We spent 4 weeks in Munnar.

Oh Munnar. That is close to Cochin.

Yes. This was, it was the old colonial time.

Because there were still a in Munnar, there were

still 30 British farmers.

And only 1 Indian farmer. Indian farmer.

So, it was still the old way, and we were

we were visitors and they liked to you know spoil us and and

a large guest house and so on, we had to food with them.

And especially, there was

there was on Thursday, there was a lady’s day.

So, all the ladies from farms

with their children came in with them maidens also

a lady’s day; so, we were taken to the ladies

and they told old stories from centuries ago,

they told old stories, we had to look and to listen

and there was one story there was one one lady called Mary

and she was they didn’t like Mary,

but they told us you know this Mary

once the British queen came to India

and this ugly Mary, she was;

she was she was able to be in the first row.

Ok. We were in the last row,

isn’t it a shame that Mary was in the first row close to the queen.

They told the story 4 times. Four times Each Thursday.

And the gents, Saturday being brought with their driver

in the main hall come on board so, I had to take a round,

sit there, drink beer. At my side, you would pile up in full bottles

and at their side, they would pile up empty bottles you know.

Will old time and then, bar and then, the dinner between 8 and 10

and then, at 10 o'clock closed and the drivers would take the

the boss into the car, and they would drive out hours,

many hours to far remote you know

forms every Saturday it worked.

It was the old you know the old British atmosphere

and once I I we visited the farms also with my family. Because

it was new for them you know, young family coming as friends.

So, once I went up into the Kundadri estate, it was very high,

it was the best quality of tea

and there was a golf place playing golf

and only for the manager of the institution and his friends.

So, I was put there, and they received me immediately

and took me in and the manager then had a large room and

I was placed here and used to there, there main order.

And I had to eat there and then, it was 10 o'clock

and then, we are what about your wife?

Is she is she informed about you being here, give her a ring.

So, I ring up my wife, it was far out. I my my dear wife,

they keep me here. I cannot leave immediately. Ok.

It will take some hours my wife, stay where you are.

And those steps, they declared. In my in my case,

I would do this at 10 o'clock, I would say I will come at 11,

at 12 o'clock every day, I come at 1 and so on. Good advice no.

Good advice. It was a nice time those four weeks,

a different time, but it was very nice.

So, we went through Bangalore.

We we had the priest here, Lutheran priest

and my younger daughter was

baptized there in Kilpauk. Oh ok.

But at the end, I broke my leg. Oh,

when you were here? Kuppuswami a mechanic.

Yes. He took me to his village.

Ok. In Pudukkottai so, so we were received by the Major and

taking around and then, the Major invited me

come for Pongal in January 65.

So, we went there for Pongal, we enjoyed the procession,

I came there along with aunty Laxmi from Urur and Kuppuswami.

So, I enjoyed the procession is this the bridge,

I was standing here with camera.

I had a tape recorder and the camera.

Ok. And I was following the procession and I didn't know that

there was no no more bridge. No more bridge.

I had to jump down 3 meter.

Oh. There was no water, I want to had to run down to the rocks.

Ok. So.

Was it; was it a major fracture or? Procession was over.

Ok. They came down and put me up.

Ok. 4 years ago, I was in the village.

Oh, you came went again to the village. Again.

An old farmer came

from his house and told me I have. Lift lift.

Taken you up. I tried to go to that village last week. Ok.

But we could not find the address.

Oh. Ok. So, I was taken to hospital. It was this parts, this piece here.

Yeah yeah. Broken off so, they had to fix it.

Ok. Operational of

Operation. showed me. Then, I was at home and doctor,

my wife was upset of course, you can image. Yes sir.

I came I came back, they had to take, I could not drive.

A bus driver from the next village, they came and they took me up

and we reached hospital and at 12 o'clock with the night,

I was examined full body you know next morning, examined again

and my wife was you know very sorry, but it was; this was

a very important time because I was in the general ward,

there was no private room available. There were 20 gents

on this side and 20 here. 20 here.

So, nobody could speak English except one merchant.

Ok. So, where do you come from?

Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany, Germany.

Yes. Then, how many children have you got?

Children, children, children, Children, Children. It was nice. Ok .

Behind my neck, there was a wall this side. And behind this wall,

there was a general ward for the ladies. Oh.

So, one lady had fallen from the bed. Oh.

And couldn't be cured.

So, day and night. Ok.

Soon after 4 days, my wife told the doctor,

please get my husband home. Home ok.

So, the She was staying with you there?

She was staying with you there? No, no she brought; she brought the food.

Oh. Ok. There was no kitchen.

Ok. So, I was taken home and.

So, he came every afternoon this week, had some whiskey

with my wife, then came up to checkup. So, this was again

a very impressive time you know. Yeah.

It it works nice because

when I came to Brunswick, it was done well

they used they used a sort of nail to put it back you know

it is called Kuntscher name so, it was Kuntscher nail.

Ok. It was invented by a German doctor.

Doctor. Surgeon, German surgeon and still also, I have connections

to this this family by like. Oh. Ok.

He he was living in Santhome.

But I I could not find their house.

Yeah, city has changed a lot. He had; he had a daughter and 3 3 boys,

but in the his name is Bashir Ahmad,

there are about two thousand Bashir Ahmads here in the. Yes.

So, this is the additional impression you know from India,

bad and good, interesting and whatever risky. It is the faith.

How can you know that there is no railing, I didn't know.

And I was following the procession and turning around. Procession.

I have carried you up after 50 years. That's really nice.

You know the the real basic culture is in the villages.

Even last week I went to the village of the cook here.

And they are so in their, they are so close to our villages

you know, not spoilt and in in in one generation rising from

a farmer’s boy to school teacher and next generation

rising from the school teacher to an engineer in England

or an America. So, within two steps you know from the ground,

it's fantastic. Fantastic. Ok, thank you.

It's very wonderful talking to you, right.

Good morning Professor Subramanian.

Yes.

Now, let us begin.

You joined IIT Madras in 1966

as a lecturer in the Department of Aeronautics and Applied Mechanics.

What made you join this department

that was so young and so small and just upcoming?

Yeah, I was young myself.

Yes, sir.

And, the young department where I could enter,

there was an opportunity available,

and I had just finished my master's programme

in Aerospace Engineering from IISC, Bangalore.

When the advertisement came,

it looked a good opportunity for me to join the programme. Yeah.

Another reason also is there,

I always liked to do research

and then, I found research and teaching had to go together.

So, I had to look for a teaching position in order to do research,

and this turned out to be a nice opportunity.

I was able to convince my interviewers that I was good

and so, I got it,

that is the way it was.

Yes.

So, you had completed your PhD under Dr. K. A. V. Pandalai.

Yes. So, could you could you describe him

as a teacher and as a person and some of your memorable learning experiences with him?

Yeah, Professor Pandalai was an extremely nice person,

and he was a great mentor for me,

but originally, I was not planning to do PhD with him,

because in 1966, when I joined the department,

the department was called Aeronautical Engineering and Applied Mechanics.

In fact, the German aid was not available

for the Applied Mechanics department-for the Aerospace department,

but, for the Applied Mechanics department it was available therefore,

the aerospace-that is the Aeronautical Engineering programme was

brought under the Applied Mechanics department

for the BTech Programme.

Even the BTech students started joining this programme at their 3rd year

because Mr. Shantha Kumar,

Professor Shantha Kumar, who was interviewed a few..some time back.

He was in the Civil Engineering programme and then, in his 3rd year,

he moved over to the Aerospace department-Aerospace programme.

So, likewise, a few students who liked the aerospace idea,

Aeronautical Engineering idea in that day, in those days,

they moved over to-

they moved over to the

Aerospace programme or Aeronautical Engineering programme

as it was...because, I want to make a difference between-distinction between

aerospace and aeronautical engineering.

It was started as an Aeronautical Engineering programme

later on, called as a Aerospace Engineering

with the aerospace content introduced in it.

So, in the first...about 2 or 3 years,

the Head of the Department of Applied Mechanics was Professor D. V. Reddy.

My plan was to work with him

because he was the head of the department, he was the

only available PhD scholar at that time for doing PhD.

So, I moved in with him,

and I started working in the area which was closed to him,

difference equation methods in structural mechanics.

But then, what happened was,

he for some reasons he

left the institute and then went to Canada,

and what he said was that,

he had spoken to Professor Pandalai who had joined in,

and that he could take me as a

PhD scholar.

So, that is how it happened. The transition took place

and Professor Pandalai also was an Aeronautical Engineer

from VPI - Virginia polytechnic,

and so, it all just came about that way.

So, I began working with him,

you asked me about his characteristics.

Right.

Extremely brilliant teacher.

Many things I learnt from him,

with just one course he taught on applied essentials.

And, in fact, teaching itself I started honing

when I looked at him, the way he presented.

So, that way he was good.

He also, was taking over the job of editing

aeronautical..that journal of aeronautical engineering,

we used to produce some publications for it,

I went and submitted a paper, of course, him and me as the authors.

And he said, "why are you working in exact solutions all the time?"

But, that was my favourite.

I said, "I like it." No, but in practic,e exact solutions are usually not enough,

you have to go in for even approximate solutions," that is what he said.

So, that triggered me.

Another time, what he did was

we were working with him and initially,

I was planning to work in the area of shells,

and what happened was,

some time in between, he was planning to leave and go to US for a year.

He called me and said,

"why you want to work in the area of shells?

you already have publications in your own area

which you started with Professor Reddy,

go ahead and do it, that is also structural mechanics," he said.

And so, he completely handed over the freedom to do research in this area,

I appreciate it because,

he found that I was able to do something in that area,

and that was his brilliance -

he could identify who could do what,

and that gave me so much freedom and also convenience that

before he returned,

I really came up with lot of material for PhD.

And he said, I gave it to him,

he looked at it and he is a mathematics person basically,

who became an engineer later

when he went to be VPI.

"These are all mathematics,

put in some applications-

engineering applications," he said. I took another year to do the applications.

It also happened that,

those days, computers were not available.

Some computers were available in Guindy Engineering College,

and also AC-Tech.

And whenever we wanted to do some computation,

we had to prepare decks of cards

send it through a messenger who was available in the library,

it will go there and get examined,

the output will come,

we will look at it make corrections and the next day we send.

So, this is the way.

In fact, it took me a nearly year before I completed my work,

and presented it for a PhD.

But then, he was a great person.

He also understood what I was capable of, I did not know myself.

He made me the joint secretary of the Joint Entrance Examination programme.

In fact, I became a joint secretary then, became a secretary

then completed my exercise

with the joint. In those days, the programme was,

there will be a chairman and secretary.

The chairman, at that time, when I was involved

in IIT Madras, was Professor Chandrashekhar Swami,

who became the director later.

So, we were the team,

and in 1975, I was involved with the joint entrance examination work.

He could see

that, I was able to do it, most of the time I did not see many things myself,

others started seeing many things in me.

Is it also true that

Dr. A. P. J. Abdul Kalam is a student under him at some point of time?

Yes, he...Dr. Abdul Kalam,

he did his BTech Programme at MIT -

Madras Institute of Technology.

He was doing his aerospace engineering, at that time,

Kalam was one of the students.

So, many of your early publications were based on Moire’s method.

Please tell us

how this came to be and how extensively was this method used?

I was not confining myself to only experimental work,

as it seems to look, the way you are asking me.

I did both experimental and theoretical work.

Theoretical work was, I had shifted to..

like Professor Pandalai said, I had shifted to approximate methods,

finite element method is an approximate method,

but, it has potential to give very good results,

and that was the one which was computer oriented

and I had begun working in that area.

Whereas, Moire method is the experimental one.

We had to develop the laboratory and Professor Pandalai said,

to every one of the faculty members,

"all of you must come up with

two or three experiments in the laboratory

and put up an experimental facility.

And, every one of us began planning some experiments

and so, the workshop was at our disposal,

we went in and then, started designing and putting up an experimental setup.

So, that way, I would design three,

another colleague of mine would design three,

like that about 30 experimental things were brought up, built up

and later on, when I took over as the

in charge of the laboratory-structure laboratory,

we weeded out some of the experiments which could not be really sustained

and then, selected about 8 to 10 experiments which were okay

and then, that became the basis for

the laboratory experiments for the students subsequently.

That means that, I got involved in the laboratory development.

And, there was always a talk saying that, if we purchase a photo elastic

bench or something, they say, because funds were limited in those days,

they say, it is there in the Physics lab

it is also there in the Civil Engineering department

why do you want to duplicate like that.

So, what I thought was, let us do something where

it will be different.

So, I thought up about that,

and Moire became my kind of a starting point.

So, I liked it and I also gave couple of lectures for Professor Sirohi.

Professor Sirohi is the person

who became the director of IIT Delhi subsequently.

He was in charge of the Engineering Design Centre

which was having a lot of equipment

brought in by German interaction.

And they make lenses, they have..a lot of optical work they could do,

the fine work, fine techniques, that is what it was.

He used to invite me to give lectures in the area of Moire

for his summer programmes.

So, that way I started interacting with him.

I thought, why not I develop Moire laboratory?

And, that became the basis for that.

Then, I engaged some of the BTech students and MTech students to

interact with me and also develop some things,

in the process, we started also publishing a few basic things,

that is how it began.

But, the important thing that came about in Moire method was,

one with Krishna Kumar,

MS student,

who went on later to Australia and he is a professor somewhere,

and we came up with a nondestructive testing idea

using the Moire method, which is still an unusual method

which really shows the

defects in the products

easily by an optical procedure -

reflective Moire, that is what it is called

so, that is what came up.

During the early and developing stages of the department

what difficulties did you face in your research while

the structural labs had to come up,

and where was most of the experimental work conducted

in the early few years considering that funds were low?

You see, it is true,

but, my experimental work I did in the department,

we built up the facilities,

basic facilities which were needed were not so much,

ordinary lenses

and some things like that we started working.

And, this fine techniques laboratory,

they used to supplement us with some equipment,

I mean, the small ones I needed. Really, Professor Sirohi and Kothiyal,

they were very helpful.

But the structures laboratory was coming up,

and in the initial stages,

the Department of Metallurgy and the Department of Applied Mechanics,

Civil Engineering, in those places where giving..

facility offering or

making available the facilities of their laboratories

for our students to go and do work.

So, that is the way it happen.

So, these people, when they had this laboratory work to be done,

some of the basic work

was being done in the metallurgy laboratory

for structures and things like.

So, Applied Mechanics and Metallurgy department

and Civil Engineering department,

they were able to offer facilities for the students in the initial stages

and then, we were developing our own laboratories and then bringing it up.

So, tell us about the number of projects

that came to your department during your career,

and among the projects that you were associated with

which were the more interesting and the challenging ones?

Yeah,

not many projects came about,

I mean, involving me directly.

But, there were many colleagues who were having plenty of employees.

But, during the period,

you know, the German aid was not available to the department,

but then, a French aid was available which Professor Pandalai saw through.

In fact, he was instrumental in getting the French aid

as well as certain award from the government

with which he began a setting up the FRP centre.

It is his brain child, it is his own thing,

I was not involved in that.

But, you were asking me about the

I just missed the point.

Interesting and challenging projects.

Yeah, project, challenging projects.

See, the AIRDB was starting to allot projects, allot funds for projects,

when we made a request for project funds.

It was just coming up,

even these ideas were only coming up at that time,

you know, the institute used to get some funds from the government,

institute apportion funds to the various departments,

and depending on the departments ability to grab funds,

things were coming into the to the various departments at that point.

The question of projects and things like that,

those ideas started culminating into projects,

for funds, funds for projects only later.

So,

you cannot say many projects came about during that period,

but then, later on, the trend became

rampant and then projects came about.

So, that is the way it was.

So, with, with whatever we had we started working with it,

with whatever funds we could get.

So, our experiments were done in such a manner that they required

minimum, minimum expenditure and also maximum benefit

as it were. Therefore, the fundamental work was being done

where we needed much less input in the form of funds.

So, that is a way we managed the whole issue.

So, so the FRP centre, you said it to was Professor Pandalai's brainchild.

Yes. But, who..like, how did it come about?

Was it was it purely his idea and not the other faculties associated with it,

how did it come about?

No, it was he wanted a composite centre and therefore,

he, he thought about it and then got funds for it.

The French group could give some support

and the he, what happened was,

the Department of Aerospace Engineering had its own workshop

and the facilities of the workshop were also made available to the FRP centre

because it was his centre,

and that is the way it started growing.

Then, it became somewhat independent centre subsequently.

Professor N. G. Nair was involved in that,

Dr. N. G. Nair - N. Gopalakrishnan Nair.

So, he was made in charge.

Professor Pandalai was controlling from the other side

so, that particular centre began growing up.

I didn't have much to do with that.

So, were there any special projects

that you that you worked with with other departments?

Are there any faculty members from other departments

that you remember working with?

No,

I did not have any other department faculty working directly with me,

but we had interactions, alright.

For example, Professor Sirohi and Professor Kothiyal

they were the ones who were

giving me a lot of support

when I was building up the Optics Laboratory in the department,

that is Moire Laboratory in the department.

I had a separate dark room and all those things

and then, we were working in a time

when the digital approach, digital methods were not available.

But then, slowly the Moire methods..

I started moving it into the computer applications

and now, I would say I moved over to digital image correlation techniques

from Moire methods, because they all are optical methods.

So, that is the way it started growing.

I will not say, I was directly involved

with any other faculty member in any other department seriously,

I mean you will find that.

So, that is.

Ok.

Sir, so, this is the question we ask most of the people who we interviewed,

throughout your journey here at IIT

do you have any memory

that is very close to your heart,

maybe inside the department or even outside,

that you would like to share with us?

I, really do not have such a very serious thing

that happened during my...because, I have been just going moving forward,

I was not planning anything very big,

but I was-it was happening,

most of the time it was happening,

that is the way I always felt. See, something was happening and therefore,

I was joining the stream and I was providing support.

I was provided support and that is the way I grew.

Nothing fantastic happened that I could really share with you.

All the students in Research College

that you have taught or have been acquainted with,

can you name a few who are inarguably exceptional

and what qualities did they have

that you want current or new researchers to imbibe?

Yeah, I can say the following,

Professor Shriram who is your dean administration was my student,

at the BTech level, he did his BTech project with me on Moire.

Well, he has scaled greater heights.

He is one person whom I think has got

a motivation and wants to do really very well, you know him right?

Yes, sir. P. Sriram. Professor P. Sriram, Dean Administration.

Administration. Yes, sir, we heard about him. Yeah, he was he was my student.

Then, another student who I remember very well,

I mean, only about one or two students only I want to mention,

is Krishna Kumar Shankar, who was completely involved in the Moire methods

in the initial stages when I was building up the laboratory,

and he was doing his masters by research,

and then, later on moved over to Australia

to do further research and PhD and then get into the academic line.

Day and night he used to live in the laboratory and I also used to join,

that is the way we built the whole thing, ideas were developed,

enjoyed the whole thing.

We had within the laboratory I think a dark room also.

So that, then and there we could watch the films,

see the results, print the films, everything we could do it,

because those days, it was.. that is the way it was.

Another person who I remember very well is at the PhD level,

one Mr. V. V. S. Ravindra - Varanasi V. S. Ravindra is his name,

he did his MS as well as PhD with me continuously,

and he has joined the TATA Consulting Centre

he is in one of the top positions in that place

and he is growing very fast.

Compared to others who join with him

he has grown much faster,

he is a very dedicated person.

He did many things, very serious person and unassuming person,

something like that, that is something which I like most.

So, these are the people who come to my mind immediately when I talk

about these students who worked with me.

There are many others, many, many others,

but, I think these three, I think, in particular I can mention.

So sir, how did your research work

directly or indirectly foster solutions

for the problems that were faced by the industry?

I dont know.

It's, you know,

industry grows from inputs from several directions,

any particular one research does not contribute to the growth of the industry.

So, we tried to do some research,

we try to do in a way, fortunately for us, in those days,

we could do research in an area of our own interest.

So, we could choose a topic we could work with it,

but then, that slowly changed, towards the end

when I was leaving,

the projects were dictated by the consumer,

and one had to dance to the tunes of the dictator.

So, that is the way it was.

So, that way we were working in the areas

which we liked most, where we thought we could contribute something.

So, it is in the area of fundamental work, fundamental research

where I had contributed a lot.

In fact, in mathematics, mathematical areas,

I had the difference equations I had spent a lot of time in those days,

for my PhD, it was difference equation methods,

but then, I completely left it behind.

I consider PhD is a kind of a stamp

which you get in order to say

that you are now independent, you can do independent research.

Because up till now

you are having a guide,

you are having people who are monitoring your work, saying

it's good or not good and so on,

but from that shackles you remove, you get away completely

and then, move to doing something independently.

That is a time when I started working in both Moire and finite element methods,

the numerical methods as well as the experimental methods.

I could start

dealing with

a few PhD students in this area,

a set of PhD students in the other area and things like that,

but then, we are contributing something to this research as such.

So, it manifests in the form of publications,

which in turn fosters further research,

that is the way I look at it.

Sir, according to you, what defines a a true researcher

or a true academician, give us your thoughts on that?

See, first of all one must have some motivation to do research,

I mean, you must think that there is something to do,

and you must also be willing to look at what has been already done.

He must painstakingly go through

everything that is already available in the area,

research is not something you

discover

already, and then try to say,

you are proving it.

When we try to pursue something,

you dont necessarily have to get the answer

which you are thinking is the answer,

that is not research.

See Wernher von Braun was saying this,

"basic research is what I am doing,

when I dont know what I am doing."

So, that is the way it is.

Research is something where you do not have

a final product in mind completely

for which you know everything and then, you say that you are doing research.

So, that kind of an ability must be there

and also,

failure in doing research is a stepping stone for something good,

because, when you have failed to do,

when you, when you are doing something and the result is not good,

you should find out why the result is not good. Many times,

it opens up fresh areas of research,

because it tells you

where you did not look at, therefore, it is also opening up another door.

So, it's very likely that,

you started working in one direction

and then, it tells you something else which is much more

fruitful, functional, very exhilarating, this is exciting, this is possible.

So, that is what I would like student to keep in mind.

You should be prepared to take failure

and look at the failure itself as a stepping stone for success.

So sir, as someone who shaped the department in its early years,

do you think there were things that you unable

to do at the brink of your retirement,

and you think that should be done in the future with the department?

Not really.

I was quite happy with whatever I did,

I was willing to retire too.

So, there is nothing wrong about that,

whatever was possible I tried to always do.

So, that way,

I am not thinking that it should have been done,

that should have been...I have I have no such feeling,

but, I am still willing to do many things.

In fact, I am trying to do it.

I am trying to do it in another place, another place

where I am visiting,

I have a couple of research scholars, with them I am doing it,

I am trying to do further.

If it is possible, I do it,

if I do not, if it is not possible, I do not want to feel bad about it.

Sir, what your thoughts on the flora and fauna in the campus during

your early years,

and how has that changed throughout this part of your career?

August 1, 1966,

when I was getting into the institute for joining the institute,

it was raining heavily.

In fact, I told them that one day before,

I told them that I wanted to join the department on August 1st,

I had written a letter, those days only letters

and what happened was, the previous day

was a convocation day

and the next day had been declared a holiday

and I had no place to go.

So, fortunately I had a

classmate of mine at the undergraduate years, who was an assistant warden in the hostels,

at that time he had joined Civil Engineering department and he was there.

So, I just dumped myself on him

and then, stayed with him for a couple of days

and then, on August 3rd I joined the institute

and then, immediately asked for accommodation